Do we really need a braking system in our toads? - Page 2

rvten · 08-13-2014, 10:21 AM

I had the bolts drop out of a frame hitch on a Class A MH. Toad wanted to pass me on drivers side. Had it come completely loose. Would hope the braking system would do its job.

You never know when or where you might need the AUX braking system.

mel s · 08-13-2014, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramzfan

I have towed a car behind my motorhome(s) since 1987. For years, I towed a Jeep Wrangler, then a Jeep Grand Cherokee and most recently, a Jeep Wrangler 4-door. I have never had a braking system. I have been all over the United States and have never been stopped nor asked if I had one. I know there's lots of talk out there that it's safer...maybe, but I've never had a problem stopping. Some say it saves your brakes...I've never had to replace a set of brakes on any of my motorhomes. It seems like I would have to replace my Jeep brakes sooner though, because they're being used for every stop the coach makes. I'm just curious, WHY do I need one...?

Ramzfan
I'm with you!

I don't buy into "toad brakes", (and lot of the other expensive "paranoia based" RV accessories either)......like a TPM system, a surge protector, a Gen-turi, LED lights, an electric toilet, the list goes on.....), that some find necessary.
Mel
'96 Safari, 133k miles, towing.

DieselTech39 · 08-13-2014, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramzfan

DieselTech...That's why we have safety chains and cables, isn't it? What happens if a tire blows in the middle of an emergency stop...? There are so many "what ifs" when driving a motorhome that you can't cover them all.

Yes it is, and I hope your using ones that are rated for a 4,000+ shock load, especially the attachment points on the tow and towed vehicle. And yes there are many "what ifs" in driving a motor home and towing a vehicle, whether it's with a MH or a different type of tow vehicle. Please don't take this as me agreeing with your premise, I'm just being candid in my response.

I think a majority of people try to minimize the number of "what ifs" as a common practice to feel confident in whatever they are doing. The ones that don't could end up as statistics at some point. Problem is that others may become the statistic, unwillingly! Of course I realize that some people feel they are "special".

Another ponder for you is when the towed vehicle is only controlled by the safety chains and cables you suggest you are using, and they hold the towed attached to your tow vehicle, what happens when you stop the towing vehicle? Where does the towed vehicle end up? Probably against the rear of your tow vehicle. Me thinks your vehicle insurance policy doesn't have a rider that provides coverage for the rear of your tow vehicle if you fail to use an approved braking system on the towed vehicle.

chawkins99 · 08-13-2014, 11:32 AM

This has been discussed many times before and always gets the same responses.... It's illegal, irresponsible, immoral, etc.

Well, if you're all so concerned about the stopping distances of these behemoths, get something smaller. My Equinox will stop waaaaayyyy shorter than ANY motorhome, so everyone should get an Equinox (or a Mini).

I currently pull my Equinox behind my 32,000lb MH without aux brakes. Not because I don't WANT a braking system but because I have other stuff to spend my hard-earned cash on.

In Alabama, brakes are required on any trailer over 1,500lbs but a toad (4-down) is not considered a 'trailer' and is exempt from the trailer laws. Yes, I've researched it myself.

My Equinox weighs around 5,000lbs and is connected with a Blue Ox Aventa rated at 10,000lbs with safety cables rated at 10,000lbs and a hitch rated at 10,000lbs. I even went with the 10,000lb 4-inch drop over the cheaper 6,000lb one so I would be WELL within all ratings.

My setup is completely legal in all places I travel and I feel completely safe with the setup.

When I have the spare Greenbacks, I'll get me a braking system (I'm holding out for the Air Force One). Until then.....

mel s · 08-13-2014, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselTech39

Me thinks your vehicle insurance policy doesn't have a rider that provides coverage for the rear of your tow vehicle if you fail to use an approved braking system on the towed vehicle.

DieselTech39
Me thinks you are guessing about that!
Mel
'96 Safari

DieselTech39 · 08-13-2014, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mel s

DieselTech39
Me thinks you are guessing about that!
Mel
'96 Safari

You're right Mel, but I'm not towing a vehicle and won't be towing a vehicle without an approved braking system. For those that do tow without an approved braking system on the towed vehicle, I would urge you to read your insurance policy and take whatever action you determine necessary to insure you are covered.

Dennis4809 · 08-13-2014, 12:50 PM

In Oct we were southbound on I75 through KY when I saw a car against a tree across the northbound lanes. On the side, a quarter mile or so further was the motorhome less their toad. It had crossed the median and both northbound lanes. Fortunately for all, the unguided missile missed all the innocent drivers and their passengers.

wa8yxm · 08-13-2014, 01:05 PM

Studies have shown that an aux braking system can make a significant (more than 10%, more than 20%) difference in your stopping distance, In fact, one company claims up to 30% (US-GEAR) but since they make a braking system that figure is suspect (Likely a small Class C pulling a F-250 or some such).

There are TWO sets of laws involved.. You (O/P) say "I have never been stopped" and one set is the traffic laws... Laws vary from state to state, and some of the web sites get it wrong as to what the requirements are, but most police officers do not know how to tell if a towed car has aux brakes without basically stopping and asking so odds are you will never be stopped.. I mean, take my case.. There is a cable that runs between my motor home and my towed.. It controls the LP-1 Lube pump, it controls the tail and stop/turn lights, and ...... If I were to swap it out for an identical looking cable with one more wire inside,, the brakes.

(They have a 2nd cable at present) so how would and officer know?

BUT...... Lets stop... SUDDENLY (And six feet too late) now your front end is... somewhat damaged, as is the rear of the vehicle in front of you..

Yes, I am speaking of an accident.

NOW I, and a good number of ambulance chasers, know about aux brake systems.. If its your front end that is .. wrinkled, and my rear, I am going to ask.

My brother told me of a case in Ohio, semi trying to pass a lawyer going slow on the turn pike,, took many attempts before he made it.

NO contact, No accident, No damage, No danger but the lawyer sued claimed he felt threatened. got half a million

JC2 · 08-13-2014, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith K

This subject has been discussed, debated, and argued many, many times - do a search if you're really interested. But I suspect you've already made up your mind ("towing since '87 without one") and are just looking for some justification for your behavior. You won't get it from me.

From me either.

gruelens · 08-13-2014, 01:24 PM

and lot of the other expensive "paranoia based" RV accessories

Yeah, and now that I think about it ...... I don't need that tow bar either. A piece of thick rope should pull just fine. I was paranoid and thought I needed steel.

rvten · 08-13-2014, 01:34 PM

To the OP.
Your toad brakes do not activate every time. Depending how senceative you have them adjusted for.
Mine are set for hard braking.

poppopc · 08-13-2014, 01:37 PM

Your insurance company may not pay up if you don't have
braking system. May give them a way out!

Clayobx · 08-13-2014, 01:38 PM

I can't fathom why anyone would consider endangering innocent persons on the roads. Where is your conscience? Let's consider one simple element, your breaking the laws in multiple states and subject to fines. If a death should occur due to your negligence undoubtably you would be found guilty under that states law and locked up for a very long time. Don't get it?

IMDSailor · 08-13-2014, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gruelens

and lot of the other expensive "paranoia based" RV accessories

Yeah, and now that I think about it ...... I don't need that tow bar either. A piece of thick rope should pull just fine. I was paranoid and thought I needed steel.

Bahahaha. Bravo. Well played.
X2

I would try to keep the costs down even more by using a smaller rope. After all it's all about the cost of these pesky, mind easing, life saving, but apparently unnecessary devices.

The OP and others have put the value of our lives at about $400.00, or whatever the cost of an Aux break system is. Your idea of just using a rope reduces that $400.00 and the value of our lives even more. They must be dancing in the little piles of money they saved. I truly truly hope they never need that stash to hire a lawyer. If I was ever a victim of this type of foolishness I would own them once my lawyer was done with them.

I also hope they never find themselves sitting on the side of the road with two little words haunting them for the rest of their lives...If only.
It's those two words that reasonably minded people try to mitigate, by doing what they can. No you can't plan or prepare for every circumstance but you can and should do your best to fix what you can to ensure the safety of yours and my loved ones.

Playing the odds is for the casino not the highway.

Again, JMPHO (The P is for Paranoid).

JRPA · 08-13-2014, 02:17 PM

I recently purchased the RVibrake-2 system for our motorhome after several years of pulling our toad without aux brakes. I don't think these brakes really add much of any additional safety or shorter stopping distance that would prevent an accident. I think maintaining a safe speed is much more important and I did keep my speed down to 60 mph or less because 40,000 lbs seems like a lot of stuff to bring to a stop in any reasonable distance under an emergency situation.

I purchased the braking system because our new coach feels more comforgtable going 5 or 10 mph faster and simply due to our litigious society and know if I were ever to have an accident and was not totally legal, then I stood to loose everything I owned and possibly more. I do drive a little faster now but probably it takes me longer to stop due to driving 5 to 10 mph faster even with the aux brakes than when I drove slower, but I am legal now, and in America that is most important.

If we did have some kind of accident where someone was really hurt or killed, it wouldn't make me feel any better having the brakes but it might keep me out of court. I try to be safe and hopefully won't have to deal with that situation and whether or not the OP purchases his aux brakes or not, hopefully he never has to deal with any kind of accident no matter whose fault it is.

F117plt · 08-13-2014, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramzfan

I have towed a car behind my motorhome(s) since 1987. For years, I towed a Jeep Wrangler, then a Jeep Grand Cherokee and most recently, a Jeep Wrangler 4-door. I have never had a braking system. I have been all over the United States and have never been stopped nor asked if I had one. I know there's lots of talk out there that it's safer...maybe, but I've never had a problem stopping. Some say it saves your brakes...I've never had to replace a set of brakes on any of my motorhomes. It seems like I would have to replace my Jeep brakes sooner though, because they're being used for every stop the coach makes. I'm just curious, WHY do I need one...?

My Brake Buddy system cost me $2000 in flat spotted tires and a totally burned up brake system on a Honda Accord. Never again.

Dawgs · 08-13-2014, 03:38 PM

Confused...I understand the legal reasons for the toad to have a brake system, but most cars have vacuum assist brakes. With the ignition off for towing the braking system needs a gorilla push on the brake pedal to work and it's not working at it's best. What am I missing??

UFO Pilot · 08-13-2014, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgs

Confused...I understand the legal reasons for the toad to have a brake system, but most cars have vacuum assist brakes. With the ignition off for towing the braking system needs a gorilla push on the brake pedal to work and it's not working at it's best. What am I missing??

My SMI Stay-in-Play makes its own vacuum.

chawkins99 · 08-13-2014, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis4809

In Oct we were southbound on I75 through KY when I saw a car against a tree across the northbound lanes. On the side, a quarter mile or so further was the motorhome less their toad. It had crossed the median and both northbound lanes. Fortunately for all, the unguided missile missed all the innocent drivers and their passengers.

Maybe his rope gave out....

CampDaven · 08-13-2014, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgs

Confused...I understand the legal reasons for the toad to have a brake system, but most cars have vacuum assist brakes. With the ignition off for towing the braking system needs a gorilla push on the brake pedal to work and it's not working at it's best. What am I missing??

My BrakeBuddy is a gorilla. If it had vac assist (engine running) it would lock up the brakes real hard.
In panic stops it stops me in at least 15% less distance than I can with the MH alone. I can feel the toad dramatically increase the deceleration (beyond the MH braking force).
It installs in 35 seconds and has served flawlessly since 2000. It's amortized cost since purchase is less than $6/month and still dropping.