Do we really need a braking system in our toads?

[Pepper2]

I understand everyone's logic, I just can't condone the obvious hostility of some of the posters. Maybe the OP didn't know the ramifications of what they were doing. Let's be nice here.

[rream]

Think he posted this so we would go nuts.

[1mainiac]

One could point out they were not required in many places before 2000 and the rules still vary from state to state as to what is required. That said I agree you should have them and when setup correctly they are great the sad fact is I see perhaps 1 in 5 setup right after they leave the shop. Esp Brake buddies it seems many drivers don't feel them so they assume they don't work and turn them way up then they burn the brakes out in the toad and complain like mad. One thing I like is more of the new systems give you feedback on the brake lights in the toad so less people are burning up their brakes now.

However the law is the law you need to follow it but please make sure you understand what you are using and adjust them correctly.

[navychaps]

You don't need it,......till you NEED it!

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by Dawgs

Confused...I understand the legal reasons for the toad to have a brake system, but most cars have vacuum assist brakes. With the ignition off for towing the braking system needs a gorilla push on the brake pedal to work and it's not working at it's best. What am I missing??

Most auxiliary braking systems are designed to work against a "dead pedal". Meaning there is there no vacuum assist required. In fact the instruction manual that comes with most systems outlines a procedure to eliminate the vacuum assist by exhausting the brake booster. The cylinder pushing on the pedal is strong enough to fully apply the brakes without vacuum assist.

If vacuum assist were present the cylinder would lock up the brakes. Some systems go as far as to either recommend they either not be used with "active braking systems" (those that supply vacuum to assist the braking system even when the engine isn't running) or make a pressure reduction valve that can be installed on the auxiliary braking system to minimize pedal pressure on cars that have active braking.

[Drifter]

I always read most everything that's posted about towing toads , tow bars and braking systems so I can stay current on the best systems and the changes.

I always try to see why somebody that says that they think something is not necessary and go's against something like safety and the laws. So I looked at last hundred of the OP's posts and comments, I see a trend in those posts. The OP says "am a "risk-reward" type of person", to me that says it all.

[Ramzfan]

Originally Posted by Drifter

I always read most everything that's posted about towing toads , tow bars and braking systems so I can stay current on the best systems and the changes.

I always try to see why somebody that says that they think something is not necessary and go's against something like safety and the laws. So I looked at last hundred of the OP's posts and comments, I see a trend in those posts. The OP says "am a "risk-reward" type of person", to me that says it all.

No Drifter, I posted this because I was curious as to why I actually needed an auxiliary braking system. I have received many good answers here and many more replies from people that like to scold someone rather than answer a straight-forward question. Just because there's a law about something doesn't mean that the law is correct and that you have to follow it exactly. Perhaps you don't agree with that philosophy, but then again, half of the people voted for Obama and the other half didn't. It's called "Choices."

[UFO Pilot]

Have a friend who towed his Jeep 5 or 6 years without a braking system without a problem. A couple of years ago the Jeep broke loose and it suffered some minor damage before it came to a stop. It went off the road ant not into oncoming traffic. The entire receiver had fallen off the RV. The safety chains were attached to the receiver so they didn't help. He should have inspected it regularly (maybe he did?) but it did happen. He had a system installed shortly thereafter.

The CHP officers I have asked say anything being towed is a trailer and towing laws apply. They may of may not be correct, only a court case will decide.

Legal issues aside, if you choose not to use a braking system at the very least have a break-away system installed.

[CampDaven]

Originally Posted by Ramzfan

No Drifter, I posted this because I was curious as to why I actually needed an auxiliary braking system. I have received many good answers here and many more replies from people that like to scold someone rather than answer a straight-forward question. Just because there's a law about something doesn't mean that the law is correct and that you have to follow it exactly. Perhaps you don't agree with that philosophy, but then again, half of the people voted for Obama and the other half didn't. It's called "Choices."

So, are you convinced to get one yet?

[SCVJeff]

Originally Posted by Dawgs

Confused...I understand the legal reasons for the toad to have a brake system, but most cars have vacuum assist brakes. With the ignition off for towing the braking system needs a gorilla push on the brake pedal to work and it's not working at it's best. What am I missing??

put your hand between the brake and any braking system, hit the test button, and see if you can come back here and write a response.

To the OP and 117: it's pretty obvious you guys are well in the minority and both better hope that nothing ever does happen, because if there is an injury or death and the judge finds out you were aware of a way to prevent the accident (and you both just admitted it on this permanent medium), he won't be happy I'm sure.

[bgsc]

Just get one and use it before something happens

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Ramzfan

No Drifter, I posted this because I was curious as to why I actually needed an auxiliary braking system. I have received many good answers here and many more replies from people that like to scold someone rather than answer a straight-forward question. Just because there's a law about something doesn't mean that the law is correct and that you have to follow it exactly. Perhaps you don't agree with that philosophy, but then again, half of the people voted for Obama and the other half didn't. It's called "Choices."

Ramzfan
Well put.
Mel

[CampDaven]

There is not even a fine line between a philosphy that has not included logical thought nor social concience, and something that is not a philosophy but simply good common sense.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by CampDaven

There is not even a fine line between a philosphy that has not included logical thought nor social concience, and something that is not a philosophy but simply good common sense.

Two things I know for sure are that "good common sense" is not really all that COMMON!....... and that this topic has been beat to death!
Mel

[algolfer]

Ramzfan,

Rather than get into the moral obligation of toad brakes I will provide you with a list of states and their toad brake requirements. I did not put the list together but have done my own research to verify the accuracy and based on the states that I have reviewed the list appears to be accurate. The list provides a link to the various states vehicle code statutes.

I attached the list for your review and here is a brief summary:

Summary:

- Five states; Alaska, Florida, Nevada, North Carolina and Wisconsin, have a verified brake requirement based on the towed vehicle weight.

- Most states have a general performance requirement based on stopping distance from 20 mph. Those apply to all vehicles or to combinations of vehicles.

- Three states; Hawaii, North Dakota and District of Columbia, have statutes that are not available online and therefore are not tabulated.

[chawkins99]

That's a very interesting document. Based on that (and excluding the unavailable data), there are only two states where my setup would be illegal (Florida and Nevada).

Hardly the "most" or "many" states that "many" of the replies on this thread like to spout.

[navychaps]

The reason I have brakes is that I have found that most every Tom, Dick and Harry are scared to death that I might get in front of them so they pull out of side roads and parking lots giving me very little braking distance (I have had to stand on my brakes more than once). I am towing right at my weight limit and I really like the way the front of my rig looks and do not want some yahoo rearranging it for me. Thus I have brakes on my toad. Most of the times during regular stopping, they activate very lightly, but I have been required to come to a stop where the pillows on the bed joined me up front. Toad brakes seem logical.

Happy travels.

[1mainiac]

Federal DOT says over 3000 lbs must have brakes so even states that don't have rules have rules.

[tankcj]

I tow a car hauler with electric brakes and I always test the brakes by applying full power (bias) to the controller before every trip. I am usually doing about 15-20 mph when I do this and I can barely feel the trailer braking even though both axles are skidding (I have brakes on both axles). I am pretty sure that even in a panic stop, those trailer brakes aren't going to affect my stopping distance by much, but every little bit helps and if the trailer ever came lose from the coach, I'd like to know that the brakes are gonna be applied...and like maniac stated...it's the law.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by 1mainiac

Federal DOT says over 3000 lbs must have brakes so even states that don't have rules have rules.

1mainiac
Can you please supply a link to a Federal DOT document stating that a vehicle being towed weighing over 3000 lbs must have brakes.
Thanks
Mel
'96 Safari, '07 Saturn ION toad