Flat Towing

[SuperGewl]

To each his own as far which way to go. The big factors are the car you want to be the TOAD, if it can be Flat towed or needs a dolly or even needs a trailer and what the owner actually wants to tow.
You have to decide what type of braking system you are going to use if you Flat Tow, that and the Base Plate install can turn some people off to Flat Towing.
If, you don't plan on keeping the Toad for long time then Dolly or Trailer towing may be the best choice. The other thing to consider is the overall weight of the Dolly/trailer and the car. Remember for Gassers it's 5klbs MAX.
As far as resell on a Flat Towed TOAD, depending on the Base Plate selection and Brake setup they can actually add to the value of the car because someone could be looking for a good used TOAD that is already setup just for that reason.
All of the different ways work and work well so decide what best for you.

[dix39]

Where does the 5k lb limit with gassers come from? I'm not trying to be smart, merely curious. I have one.

Thanks.

Steve

[Myssdragn]

Most large gas RVs weigh around 18K -19K lbs. add 2-3 K lbs for fuel, supplies and passengers leaves about 5K to reach the max GVCW rating of 26K lbs . for the Ford F53 chassis. Also most have a max hitch rating of 5K lbs.

[dix39]

Thanks, I've been trying to determine just what ours is and what you say is probably correct. I've looked on the hitch as well as I could without finding much information there.

Last year while bow hunting for elk a friends diesel 4X4 pickup broke down. We rented a 2k lb trailer to haul the 6k lb truck about 150 miles. It was the best scenario we could come up with at the time and there were no problems, but I've wondered since if we were a bit past the limits.

Thanks again.

Steve

[Fletcher0077]

Just FYI my 35 foot gas has a GVWR of 22,000. GCWR of 26,000 lbs. Just big enough window to tow the Honda CRV which weighs 4000. (by the way.. even older CRV's cannot be towed on a dolly)

I towed with a dolly for 10 years. Back then I got a new dolly with electric brakes for ~ $1300. Tow dolly worked great for different vehicles and teenagers needs. Cost and versatility are the advantages. Once it's hooked to MH effort to load toad is about the same as hooking up with tow bar.
Disadvantages are storage at home or on the road, difficult to tow empty even with tires aired down it bounces around like a basket ball and moving it by hand to get it to it's parking place--I used an ATV for this.

I now tow 4 down. Effort still required with installing heavy tow bar and drop down hitch. Otherwise more convenient. Easier to hook up with 2 people but can be done with 1 person as with dolly.
Disadvantages are cost (tow bar+base plate+ brake system+drop down hitch) I went with Ready brake tow bar to save cost of additional brake system. Also must buy/install another base plate for another car.

Hope this helps. Stay safe

[jerichorick]

It is interesting to read through this thread. There seems to be, as I have seen, many RVers who see the tow dolly as having a great advantage over flat towing. For the "vacationer" who travels a few weeks, at most, a year I fully agree. But for the more avid adventurer who's hitting the road full-time I think the tow dolly is a poor choice. With the cost of the base plate, tow bar and breaking system this can cost as much as twice that of the dolly initially.

I love my setup and I installed everything myself. The mod to the CR-V was not that intrusive or difficult once I understood what the correct approach to the install. What I have gained is this. I line the car up to the back of the coach Pin the 2 legs of the tow bar to the car, hook up the safety cables, breakaway device, air break hose, light connector and the stone cover. With the tow dolly I had to manually pull the thing over the terrain it was parked on and onto the area the coach was parked, drop it on the ball, hook up the safety chains and lights, set the ramp to receive the car, line the car up with the ramps and drive it on. Now I had to fasten the hold down straps onto each front tire. And the weather was what it was. Dragging that thing over soft, rain soaked ground was never fun for me. I had to change cloths on occasion because I was covered in mud. As a volunteer I could not always wait for things to dry out. I had to move on.

IMO the tow bar, flat towing method is the least work intensive and equipment storage problems of the methods available for towing behind a RV.

Happy trails,
Rick Y

[Brockx]

Originally Posted by Chucksterfxw

I'm between flat towing and Dolly towing. My question on flat towing is when setting up braking for the car there is a cable from the bars, through the fire wall to the brake petal. Without the car running to enable power brakes how does this efficiently stop the car or is there another system? Ever try stopping your car when not running and stepping on the brakes? The other question is does the dolly have brakes of it's own and is this the least expensive way to go? Ready to start traveling and this is the last step but important. Thanks Chuck:

The NSA ready brake tow bar is probably the system you are referencing. I had an Acme dolly with surge brakes and it worked fine, just a hassle to store at home and some campgrounds required you to pay for storage. The NSA cable/surge brake tow bar works great. Your towed vehicle pushes against a movable joint in the towbar, which activates a lever connected to a cable which connects to the brake pedal. Believe me, that set-up with your 2500# plus toad pushing against the lever action provides all the brake power you need.

[Forza Tom]

Originally Posted by Chucksterfxw

I'm between flat towing and Dolly towing. My question on flat towing is when setting up braking for the car there is a cable from the bars, through the fire wall to the brake petal. Without the car running to enable power brakes how does this efficiently stop the car or is there another system? Ever try stopping your car when not running and stepping on the brakes? The other question is does the dolly have brakes of it's own and is this the least expensive way to go? Ready to start traveling and this is the last step but important. Thanks Chuck:

I have done both and I prefer to tow 4 down.

As others have mentioned make sure you have a vehicle that can be towed 4 down or you will need to dolly tow.

I have an SMI braking system and a Roadmaster tow bar and set up. SMI makes the stay N play system for gas MH and the Air Force One system for Diesel's. They utilize the toads vacuum to assist with braking.

I didn't care for the loading and unloading and rolling around on the ground to secure the straps that dolly towing required. I also didn't like having to find a place to store the dolly in some campgrounds with limited room.

You will want to look into a TPMS (tire pressure monitoring system) with either method so you can tell if you have a tire issue on your toad before major damage is done.

Yes most dolly's I have seen have there own braking system either electric or surge.

You can get set up to dolly tow a little cheapers than flat towing depending on the dolly

[Terryshirley]

I was told yesterday that you cannot back up with a 4 down rig. Unless perfectly straight. I would never consider 4 down. Way too many situations when refueling that requires me to back up sometimes
only a few feet

[BFlinn181]

Originally Posted by Terryshirley

I was told yesterday that you cannot back up with a 4 down rig. Unless perfectly straight. I would never consider 4 down. Way too many situations when refueling that requires me to back up sometimes
only a few feet

This is true of most dolly towing as well, surge brakes will lock up when backing a dolly unless you insert the pin to prevent brake application. In addition, unless you're an experienced driver, backing a long wheelbase vehicle with a trailer is a steep curve.

When you pull into a gas station or any place off the road, you must scope out your path to be sure it can be done without backing up. I've only had one situation where I had to unhook the toad. I pulled into a gas station on a hill. Once committed to the driveway, as I got up the hill I saw that the exit from the pumps was blocked by construction. As we fueled, I disconnected toad and parked it to the side. Then I was able to back out and connect again after turning around.

[Tetzlaki]

I flat tow 93 Aerostar. Got it down to 15 minutes to unbolt or bolt up drive shaft, 15 minutes to hook up or unhook for towing. No issues. Didn't want to invest drive shaft disconnect or remco system as would double value of Aerostar. Wife uses mobility scooter which goes in van and has a lift to put in and out.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by BFlinn181

This is true of most dolly towing as well, surge brakes will lock up when backing a dolly unless you insert the pin to prevent brake application. In addition, unless you're an experienced driver, backing a long wheelbase vehicle with a trailer is a steep curve.

When you pull into a gas station or any place off the road, you must scope out your path to be sure it can be done without backing up. I've only had one situation where I had to unhook the toad. I pulled into a gas station on a hill. Once committed to the driveway, as I got up the hill I saw that the exit from the pumps was blocked by construction. As we fueled, I disconnected toad and parked it to the side. Then I was able to back out and connect again after turning around.

Good post!

I have backed a very short distance with both methods. A few feet at best. Other than break lockup with the tow dolly, jackknifing is the #1 thing to happen very quickly. If using the dolly method there is also the chance of relocating (dislocating) the front tires on the dolly bed. When towing with any method, except a full trailer, backing up is not an issue. You just don't do it..

[dix39]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I have backed a very short distance with both methods. A few feet at best. Other than break lockup with the tow dolly, jackknifing is the #1 thing to happen very quickly. If using the dolly method there is also the chance of relocating (dislocating) the front tires on the dolly bed. When towing with any method, except a full trailer, backing up is not an issue. You just don't do it..

I would certainly agree those are the hazards to watch out for when backing either a loaded dolly or 4 down. Also, when backing 4 down the front wheels will usually turn all the way in one direction or the other and must be held wherever you want them to be with the steering wheel. This usually doesn't happen in backing just a few feet, but should be watched for.

That being said, IMHO, backing either a dolly or 4 down toad a few feet is not difficult and I have done it numerous times, mostly when fueling.

Someone posted a video on here a while back of someone backing their toad all over the place without incident. I would certainly not want to try that, but I have backed our toad for 30 or so feet straight back. It required pulling forward a few times to get straightened up and my wife holding the steering wheel to keep it straight, but it worked. It was about the only way to get out of the situation I had gotten myself into. It's much better to plan ahead, but they can be backed, very carefully.

Although I've never tried backing a loaded dolly more than a few feet, I believe it would be easier to back a 4 down toad any considerable distance than a loaded dolly.

There have also been a few times when the only way was to disconnect. I guess we should all do whatever we are most comfortable with.

For anyone who is new to towing it may be a good idea to find a large parking lot, and a spotter or two to avoid incidents, to learn what you would be comfortable doing when the cards are down.

Just my 2c.

Steve

[Dale & Mark Bruss]

Having made an alignment error for a gas pump slot a couple of times, the very nature of the misalignment means the four-down toad wasn't is line with the motorhome. A situation that is not acceptable for an attempted backup try.

But being a four-down, we disconnect the toad, got it out of the way, aligned the motorhome and reconnected when done. Something very much more difficult with a dolly.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Dale & Mark Bruss

Having made an alignment error for a gas pump slot a couple of times, the very nature of the misalignment means the four-down toad wasn't is line with the motorhome. A situation that is not acceptable for an attempted backup try.

But being a four-down, we disconnect the toad, got it out of the way, aligned the motorhome and reconnected when done. Something very much more difficult with a dolly.

x2 Dale. Dix39 can "believe" what he wants but practical experience proves otherwise. I can, with great care and a DW in the car doing the correct steering correction at the precise moment, back the car up some distance if we were in a big clear parking lot. This is not the every day situation when this need is in place. The fuel stop problem is more common.

My tow dolly had a pivot platform and a ball hitch. That was 2 points of pivot about 3' in separation. With the steer wheels about 25' to 30' away making corrections that worked when backing up was near impossible. As soon as the alignment of all the components fell off the dolly would go one way and the back wheels of the car the other with the ball pivot compounding the error. I have a little more control with backing the car but not much. The front tires do turn. But, from my experiences over the last 11+ years, the 4 down towing method is much easier. And I never mentioned the blowouts with the tow dolly. Major pain. Damage to dolly fender and car door.

Choose wisely Grasshopper.

Rick Y

[dix39]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

x2 Dale. Dix39 can "believe" what he wants but practical experience proves otherwise. I can, with great care and a DW in the car doing the correct steering correction at the precise moment, back the car up some distance if we were in a big clear parking lot. This is not the every day situation when this need is in place. The fuel stop problem is more common.

My tow dolly had a pivot platform and a ball hitch. That was 2 points of pivot about 3' in separation. With the steer wheels about 25' to 30' away making corrections that worked when backing up was near impossible. As soon as the alignment of all the components fell off the dolly would go one way and the back wheels of the car the other with the ball pivot compounding the error. I have a little more control with backing the car but not much. The front tires do turn. But, from my experiences over the last 11+ years, the 4 down towing method is much easier. And I never mentioned the blowouts with the tow dolly. Major pain. Damage to dolly fender and car door.

Choose wisely Grasshopper.

Rick Y

I believe that is for the most part that is what I said also, at least it is what I intended.

We've been 4 down towing a Samurai/Tracker/Metro cross country for the last 15+ years and with the dolly about the same amount of time, but only 6 hundred mile round trips or less with the dolly. Prior to that we have towed all sorts of trailers, boats, bike trailers, etc. all over the place since the early '80s.

We too had a blowout with the dolly with about the same damage to the dolly you describe. I've replaced the fender and need to finish the wiring. We also had a blowout with a bike trailer somewhere in the mid-west that took the fender with it. I guess that could happen with anything.

My most difficult 4 down backing exercise was in Cheyenne, WY near the intersection of 25 and 80 during winter in the dark. I had refueled and was looking for a place to spend the night. Somehow I ended up going down the inclined entrance to a fast food place with the building on one side and a wall on the other. I couldn't fit under the bar ahead so the only choice was to go back. I was reluctant to disconnect because of the incline and close quarters so I chose to back up. It went about as you describe with the wife steering the toad and me inching the RV backward. I had to pull up and start over a few times, but it turned out all right. That was about 30' more or less. I have never hesitated for a second to back our 4 down toad a few feet to facilitate fueling. I probably did that a half dozen times last summer.

My exercise above is a good illustration of poor prior planning. My excuse would be that I had driven all day, including through Denver when it was busy, it was cold and windy outside, and I was tired. While that is true, I should have checked before going into an area that had visible restrictions on both sides and an unknown exit.

Best of luck with however you tow.

Steve

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by dix39

I believe that is for the most part that is what I said also, at least it is what I intended.

We've been 4 down towing a Samurai/Tracker/Metro cross country for the last 15+ years and with the dolly about the same amount of time, but only 6 hundred mile round trips or less with the dolly. Prior to that we have towed all sorts of trailers, boats, bike trailers, etc. all over the place since the early '80s.

We too had a blowout with the dolly with about the same damage to the dolly you describe. I've replaced the fender and need to finish the wiring. We also had a blowout with a bike trailer somewhere in the mid-west that took the fender with it. I guess that could happen with anything.

My most difficult 4 down backing exercise was in Cheyenne, WY near the intersection of 25 and 80 during winter in the dark. I had refueled and was looking for a place to spend the night. Somehow I ended up going down the inclined entrance to a fast food place with the building on one side and a wall on the other. I couldn't fit under the bar ahead so the only choice was to go back. I was reluctant to disconnect because of the incline and close quarters so I chose to back up. It went about as you describe with the wife steering the toad and me inching the RV backward. I had to pull up and start over a few times, but it turned out all right. That was about 30' more or less. I have never hesitated for a second to back our 4 down toad a few feet to facilitate fueling. I probably did that a half dozen times last summer.

My exercise above is a good illustration of poor prior planning. My excuse would be that I had driven all day, including through Denver when it was busy, it was cold and windy outside, and I was tired. While that is true, I should have checked before going into an area that had visible restrictions on both sides and an unknown exit.

Best of luck with however you tow.

Steve

x2 to you too, Steve. This is a great example of how easy it is to get into a bad situation no matter how we are towing. Thanks for sharing that great tail of woes. But you did succeed at overcoming the situation.

Happy trails,
Rick Y

[Hardroad]

Well, I'm with the Flat-Towers - I just can't get past the fact that I would have 3 vehicles when I get to the campground instead of two. I guess it's all in the person doing the towing - we have a friend who would never flat tow and has always 'Dolly towed'.
As far as the added expense every time you trade vehicles - it's kinda like asking an RVer what his gas mileage is - if you have to worry about it - why do it.
We have enjoyed our 'pull-behind', Gas Motorhome, Diesel Motorhome, Fifth Wheel and Gas Motorhome for the past 16 years and have just adapted each time we made a change. We love RVing - Just a thought.

[skyking]

Where is the OP? Well, we are probably helping others decide.
I don't consider myself to be as experienced as many of the previous posters, but we have circuited the country and Canada 4 times.
I agree with some that a dolly is great for the occasional tow, but know that 4 down is the way to go for continued lengthy travel.
For the previous 3 US tours, I used a "brake buddy" (Roadmaster) type brake system for my toad. Its install took an extra 15-20 minutes, plus weathered knees, complication and aggravation. When I calculated that I would have to do that about 80 times for our latest 9 week US tour, I decided to install the "InvisiBrake" system. Unbelievable difference!!! Nothing to do!!! Just plug in my toad cable and I'm done. Toad connection takes 3 minutes. Disconnect even less. The drawback is that you will not move it from vehicle to vehicle, because it is a semi-permanent install. For the people that have a vehicle that can't be flat towed, the answer is simple. Sell it and get one that can. You may find one with a good system installed!
Backing up. -- Yes, you can back a "4 down" for 20 or 30 feet. More if someone steers. In a turn it would be less, but doable. In our 4 tours of about 40,000 miles, I had to disconnect twice..

[Cooperhawk]

Well, I've done it. We have been towing our VW Passat TDI since 2012 with a Demco Kar Kaddy III. It has worked well for us and prior to that we towed our Jedda for 6 years with another one as well. I SOLD the tow dolly last week. Here's why.

I'm getting old. It has gotten to be quite a hassle to load the car, strap it down, and crawl underneath to hook up the safety chains. Also it is quite heavy to move around by hand to park it and then get it hooked up again. At the GNR in July when I was hooking up to leave I had to drag it out of storage and get it all done in 90+ heat. Almost did me in. Getting too old for that.

Just finished installing the Blue Ox Base Plate on my Ford Explorer and the Air Force One Braking System. Took two of us a good day to get it all done, but it looks very professional and really slick. Our coach has a previous AF1 system already installed, but since it all came in the box we will install the new tank next week and replace the one that is over 12 years old.

This looks like a good improvement and I am anxious for our first trip with it. I did not do this sooner as my previous Explorers were not towable at all.

I am not bad mouthing the tow dolly. It served us quite well for a long time. I think our first one was purchased used about twenty years ago and our second purchased new five years ago. Neither ever gave me any mechanical problems. They were well built. I simply needed an easier way to hook up is all.