Help with weight.

TrailHappy · 03-24-2020, 12:35 AM

Hi everyone.
I own a 95 winn adventurer wga34wa ..vin# is partially 1GBLP37N2S3.

Gawr front is 5500...rear is 11000 ...gvwr is 16500.

My problem is I cannot get front weight down..
Unless I completely strip everything from front.
I weighed it at Loves on a cat scale. Empty cept gas,propane (100# tank). No spare and came in at 5460 front/ 9460 rear/ total 14920
I then exited MH and got off scale and had reweighed 5280 front/9500 / 14780.
I weigh 195 so front diff is close but total weight was 140 pounds.

I was wondering if anyone had issues with scales before?
I can't find excess weight
Undercarriage is clean.
Minor delam about 2'x3' on driver side.
I am missing something.
Please help

John Locke · 03-25-2020, 02:56 PM

It would be good to understand your situation. Did you just buy it and you have this concern, or is the handling poor so you started to look at solutions? Or is this just a general concern of the normal ratings of RVs, that have marginal load carrying capability in those years?

If it was me, I would look at the rating of the tires as the starting point. What size tires do you have? See what load ratings total for two tires. If you could buy higher rated tires, that would help. If your tires can handle the 6000lbs load (3000lbs each), I wouldn't worry about the 5500 limit. If they are rated for 5500 (each tire at 2750) I suggest the next load range higher to increase the margin of safety.

If you feel the front suspension is sagging for some reason, you might consider air bags, or sumos to aid with more lift.

If you want to invest into better handing, RVs on the edge of weight limit, I highly recommend HD sway bars, and a fresh alignment. Factory alignments don't happen after all of the house structure is added, so a relevant full weight alignment is worthy to consider, it sure helped my rig.

Given the rating you mention, it sounds like you're running 16.5" wheels. Usually load range E on 16.5 is about 2750lbs, which is a typical RV tire that size I believe. So you may want to search for a higher load range tire to mitigate concern, depending on the RV weight totals FULLY LOADED, ready to travel.

As for the spindles on the RV, I wouldn't worry much about that, I'm sure they are rated much higher, as there would be a lot of failure reports if that was an issue, but still keeping the front end light as possible is a good idea when loading.

Remember, loading things that are in front of the REAR wheels adds weight to the front end. Loading things BEHIND the rear wheel, such as storage under the bed, gasoline, helps to lighten the front end. So I recommend loading the RV for travel, with water and gas full, not empty. This will give you a better representation of the full issue.

After all that, then reassess the situation. Let us know your goals and concerns. Is it a handling issue, or more safety worry?

Goodspike · 03-25-2020, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Locke

It would be good to understand your situation. Did you just buy it and you have this concern, or is the handling poor so you started to look at solutions? Or is this just a general concern of the normal ratings of RVs, that have marginal load carrying capability in those years?

I think the concern is exceeding the weight limits of the suspension. Tires are only part of that and you can't increase the limit of the suspension by putting on better tires (although tires are also a concern).

It's sort of like the issue with pickups. You cannot increase the limit they can carry by installing different springs. The axle limit is still the axle limit. Now can you exceed it a few times by 500 pounds without disaster. Most likely, but that doesn't mean it's a safe practice.

Somewhat amazing the limits are so close. It sounds like if there were an adult passenger too it would be over the limit.

John Locke · 03-25-2020, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I think the concern is exceeding the weight limits of the suspension. Tires are only part of that and you can't increase the limit of the suspension by putting on better tires (although tires are also a concern).

It's sort of like the issue with pickups. You cannot increase the limit they can carry by installing different springs. The axle limit is still the axle limit. Now can you exceed it a few times by 500 pounds without disaster. Most likely, but that doesn't mean it's a safe practice.

Somewhat amazing the limits are so close. It sounds like if there were an adult passenger too it would be over the limit.

Yes, I agree. However RV's that vintage don't have a high failure rate for axles, they are more than capable of a little excess IMO, given the evidence. Tires are the main concern, and they are the weak link IMO when you're talking about a few hundred pounds per tire in excess of rig rating.

RV's that vintage inherently had poor cargo ratings, due to the 16.5" wheels. And an RV that large is even more problematic. However, as mentioned the reliability of the suspension infrastructure on Chevy and Ford chassis has been good. It's all about the tires IMO, given he really only needs another 500lbs to help mitigate concerns. Getting higher rated tires is a good idea anyway, and 25yrs later you can buy them. IMO that's pretty much a must do step before anything else.

TrailHappy · 03-25-2020, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Locke

It would be good to understand your situation. Did you just buy it and you have this concern, or is the handling poor so you started to look at solutions? Or is this just a general concern of the normal ratings of RVs, that have marginal load carrying capability in those years?

If it was me, I would look at the rating of the tires as the starting point. What size tires do you have? See what load ratings total for two tires. If you could buy higher rated tires, that would help. If your tires can handle the 6000lbs load (3000lbs each), I wouldn't worry about the 5500 limit. If they are rated for 5500 (each tire at 2750) I suggest the next load range higher to increase the margin of safety.

If you feel the front suspension is sagging for some reason, you might consider air bags, or sumos to aid with more lift.

If you want to invest into better handing, RVs on the edge of weight limit, I highly recommend HD sway bars, and a fresh alignment. Factory alignments don't happen after all of the house structure is added, so a relevant full weight alignment is worthy to consider, it sure helped my rig.

Given the rating you mention, it sounds like you're running 16.5" wheels. Usually load range E on 16.5 is about 2750lbs, which is a typical RV tire that size I believe. So you may want to search for a higher load range tire to mitigate concern, depending on the RV weight totals FULLY LOADED, ready to travel.

As for the spindles on the RV, I wouldn't worry much about that, I'm sure they are rated much higher, as there would be a lot of failure reports if that was an issue, but still keeping the front end light as possible is a good idea when loading.

Remember, loading things that are in front of the REAR wheels adds weight to the front end. Loading things BEHIND the rear wheel, such as storage under the bed, gasoline, helps to lighten the front end. So I recommend loading the RV for travel, with water and gas full, not empty. This will give you a better representation of the full issue.

After all that, then reassess the situation. Let us know your goals and concerns. Is it a handling issue, or more safety worry?

First ,I am extremely new to Rving and will ask slot of questions, so thank you in advance for helping me understand this new world.

My RV was just bought and is my first.
I am concerned about safety regarding weight.
The person I bought it from shall we say" Glossed over some issues that I missed but done is done.

My tires are 8R19.5 load range F....but tires have this on sidewall ( 124/122M@110psi)?????

My front axle weight is issue.
I have airbags inside of springs..inflated to 80psi.
I didn't weight it with full fresh water tank, would that make a difference onfront end??
( Tank is at rear end of RV.)
I have weighed it at cat scale which I think is wrong due to fact I walked off scale and it only lost 140#.....( I wish I could lose that much weight that easily ...-60#)😂

At this point I cannot even have my GF ride with me.
I was told holding tanks were empty but not yet proven by me...Could black tank be dried up with human waste??

Again thanks

**creativepart** · 03-25-2020, 03:39 PM

It's under weight by a little. And virtually any more loading you do will be behind the mid-point of the coach where you have the most extra weight capacity available.

I'd wait until it's all loaded for a trip and your toad is attached and then stop at the scales when you are getting a full tank of gas on your trip. Then you'll have a better idea of what you are dealing with.

The only obvious things are to check is if you have too much weight in your forward basement compartments naturally. What about batteries - have you added a bunch of heavy 6v batteries to the RV? Solar Panels? Anything similar? Just changing from 12v to 6v batteries could add 60lbs.

The RV is 25 years old, and it's been this weight a long time without any issues. I'd assume based on that experience that it's not a major issue.

With a new to you RV and your first RV you're going to obsess over every little thing no doubt. But relax. You're just getting started and there will be a LOT of issues to work through and you can't get overly worried about every one or you'll be a nervous wreck.

Don't let the worry overwhelm the fun you're going to have.

TrailHappy · 03-25-2020, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I think the concern is exceeding the weight limits of the suspension. Tires are only part of that and you can't increase the limit of the suspension by putting on better tires (although tires are also a concern).

It's sort of like the issue with pickups. You cannot increase the limit they can carry by installing different springs. The axle limit is still the axle limit. Now can you exceed it a few times by 500 pounds without disaster. Most likely, but that doesn't mean it's a safe practice.

Somewhat amazing the limits are so close. It sounds like if there were an adult passenger too it would be over the limit.

Yes exactly..as note to prior post my tire weight limit is 3525 @110psi each tire in front.
But door placard says 70 psi for 5500 front axle.

I have good airbags and springs.
Tires do not look loaded.
Driving stays straight when hands off wheel for 5 to 10 seconds when on a safe, straight, level area before I put hands back on to be safe.
I have only spare tire in front storage compartments.
However I didn't remove approx 200# AT MOST of tools,personal belongings in compartments in front of rear wheels.

My thoughts are what is curb weight of this vehicle??
I can't find that info anywhere including calling Chevy in Detroit.
RV is 1995 Winn adventurer WCG34WA with solar, propane tank (100#), rear bedroom, couch, and just removed 3rd chair to lower weight.
Has 2 A/C units on roof, full gas tank (78gals), full propane tank, empty fresh wtr tank (80gals) and empty hot wtr htr.

From what I read I should have 2,967# but it doesn't match to scales....

Again thanks for helping me out...
I live in boonies and breaking down in the even farther boonies is not an idea I fancy.😀

TrailHappy · 03-25-2020, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

It's under weight by a little. And virtually any more loading you do will be behind the mid-point of the coach where you have the most extra weight capacity available.

I'd wait until it's all loaded for a trip and your toad is attached and then stop at the scales when you are getting a full tank of gas on your trip. Then you'll have a better idea of what you are dealing with.

The only obvious things are to check is if you have too much weight in your forward basement compartments naturally. What about batteries - have you added a bunch of heavy 6v batteries to the RV? Solar Panels? Anything similar? Just changing from 12v to 6v batteries could add 60lbs.

The RV is 25 years old, and it's been this weight a long time without any issues. I'd assume based on that experience that it's not a major issue.

With a new to you RV and your first RV you're going to obsess over every little thing no doubt. But relax. You're just getting started and there will be a LOT of issues to work through and you can't get overly worried about every one or you'll be a nervous wreck.

Don't let the worry overwhelm the fun you're going to have.

No new batteries or solar just factory installed in 95.
Thanks ...I realize I maybe over worrying but better to be safe than sorry.

TrailHappy · 03-25-2020, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Locke

Yes, I agree. However RV's that vintage don't have a high failure rate for axles, they are more than capable of a little excess IMO, given the evidence. Tires are the main concern, and they are the weak link IMO when you're talking about a few hundred pounds per tire in excess of rig rating.

RV's that vintage inherently had poor cargo ratings, due to the 16.5" wheels. And an RV that large is even more problematic. However, as mentioned the reliability of the suspension infrastructure on Chevy and Ford chassis has been good. It's all about the tires IMO, given he really only needs another 500lbs to help mitigate concerns. Getting higher rated tires is a good idea anyway, and 25yrs later you can buy them. IMO that's pretty much a must do step before anything else.

Thank you for post.
Greatly reliving to hear these vintage RV had little axle failures.

John Locke · 03-25-2020, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrailHappy

No new batteries or solar just factory installed in 95.
Thanks ...I realize I maybe over worrying but better to be safe than sorry.

If you have load range F tires, those are an upgrade load range to the originals, which were likely unavailable in 1995.

IMO you have nothing to worry about. If you exceed the original RV ratings 500lbs in the front, it's good with the F load range tires. Tires are the weakest link, change them every 6 or 7 years, even with little tread wear. Check your tires for manufacturing date so you know when you're due to consider new tires. Inflate the tires to the pressure recommended for 3000 lbs per tire and see how it rides. You should be good IMO.

Again, load it up for travel with full tanks of gas, water, food, tools, you and the misses in the seats, everything, and weigh it. You'll have a better feel for the issue.

**creativepart** · 03-25-2020, 04:12 PM

Let's worry about one thing though... Tires.

What brand of tires do you have? And what DOT dates are printed on the sidewalls?

8R19.5 Tires are older. Most owners of older RVs convert to 225/70 19.5 Tires. Though to do so may require new wheels as well.

So, hearing that the tires are 8R19.5 Tires I'd worry about them being aged out. If the DOT dates on any of the tires is more than 7 years old I would say that's your first real problem and you will need a new set of tires. And you may want to change to 225/70 19.5 at that time.

Here's one post on this switch from our sister site www.irv2.com:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/8r1...-a-123151.html

Here's a Goodyear article on the switch:
https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/size-conversions.aspx

Goodspike · 03-25-2020, 06:03 PM

Many people travel with near empty or near empty tanks to save water, but to the extent you have tanks at the rear that could conceivable reduce the weight on the front end by leverage.

I wouldn't worry about the Cat scale. They are weighing things weighing a lot and I think they work in 20 pound increments, so it may be off, but not by much. You might have weighed 5461 and if so a 22 pound drop would drop you 40 pounds (if I'm right about the increments).

John Locke · 03-25-2020, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

8R19.5 Tires are older. Most owners of older RVs convert to 225/70 19.5 Tires. Though to do so may require new wheels as well.

So, hearing that the tires are 8R19.5 Tires I'd worry about them being aged out. If the DOT dates on any of the tires is more than 7 years old I would say that's your first real problem and you will need a new set of tires. And you may want to change to 225/70 19.5 at that time.

Here's one post on this switch from our sister site www.irv2.com:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/8r1...-a-123151.html

Here's a Goodyear article on the switch:
https://www.goodyearrvtires.com/size-conversions.aspx

Goodyear still sells the old size truck tires 8R19.5, so that doesn't mean they are aged out if recently replace by the previous owner, but I'm guessing that's unlikely. Your're right, the OP needs to check the mfg date.

It's a really GOOD idea to change to new lower profile tires using wider rim, that's a really good investment. It will improve the handling considerably when using a lower profile radial tire, plus this style tire offers better load rating too. If it was me, no question that if new tires are needed, and you're going to invest ~$2500 in tires, it's the perfect time to spend the money to make the switch, well worth it, no brainer.

If the OP wanted to save money on rims, there should be plenty of used rims from later model rigs at an RV salvage yard, usually $50/ea. Depending on the chassis (ford or chevy), the OP will want a rim about 6.00 to 6.75" wide, more appropriate for the new low profile sizes (confirm with tire dealer).

Here's another article about this subject:

https://itstillruns.com/effects-8r19...s-7440499.html

**creativepart** · 03-26-2020, 11:21 AM

Since the OP has 19.5" tires and not 22.5" like all larger Class As I think this opens up more options for places to work on his tires. I'm not positive of that, but I know when I had a Class C with 19.5" tires I was able to go to Discount Tire for tire work. I had them install solid extended valve stems.

My Adventurer has 22.5" tires and Discount Tire won't touch them.

theSane · 03-26-2020, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

Since the OP has 19.5" tires and not 22.5" like all larger Class As I think this opens up more options for places to work on his tires. I'm not positive of that, but I know when I had a Class C with 19.5" tires I was able to go to Discount Tire for tire work. I had them install solid extended valve stems.

My Adventurer has 22.5" tires and Discount Tire won't touch them.

Discount Tire does not have them listed on their website, but if you call them, they will order them for you. They have about 6 brands to choose from.

John Locke · 03-26-2020, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by creativepart

Since the OP has 19.5" tires and not 22.5" like all larger Class As I think this opens up more options for places to work on his tires. I'm not positive of that, but I know when I had a Class C with 19.5" tires I was able to go to Discount Tire for tire work. I had them install solid extended valve stems.

My Adventurer has 22.5" tires and Discount Tire won't touch them.

Interesting, I didn't realize some tire shops can't handle 22". YES, great reminder to get solid extended valve tubes installed while the tires are apart. This makes installing TPMS much easier if the OP choses to opt for a system.

dickb46 · 03-29-2020, 06:34 PM

Your vehicle (when new) had an 8-1/2"x11" page pasted to a wall inside a cabinet listing all extras and the dry/wet weight of the vehicle.
My 1995 Vectra weighed 14400lbs dry and had a gross weight of 16000lbs. That was before the HWH jack system was added.
I was always way overweight.

TrailHappy · 03-29-2020, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dickb46

Your vehicle (when new) had an 8-1/2"x11" page pasted to a wall inside a cabinet listing all extras and the dry/wet weight of the vehicle.
My 1995 Vectra weighed 14400lbs dry and had a gross weight of 16000lbs. That was before the HWH jack system was added.
I was always way overweight.

Awesome!!!
Thank you for that info.

All of those of you that responded I send my thanks!

Diesel-Lover · 03-30-2020, 11:34 AM

Odds are the branded assembler of the vehicle did not do their homework on the chassis, the body design nor the equopment that they piled onto the chassis. Therefore you ended up with a rig that has over burdened the frame, suspension etc with enough occupant and carry on weight capacity such that butterflies can live in it and drive it around not humans.

This lunacy gives rise to a huge after market for suspension enhancement etc to make the rigs usable and sorta stable

NeilV · 03-31-2020, 09:05 PM

On a 1995 on a P30 their is usually little weight capacity for people and their stuff. The independent front suspension on them also tends to be a bit fussy especially where inflating the air bags is concerned as they tend to creep and bunch up inside the spring coils reducing their effectiveness and if left that way for a while can become bonded to the springs coils. Sometimes you need to raise the coach on jacks to extend the springs before deflating the air bags so they will even off when you inflate them. You do not want then bulging too far in-between the spring coils or they can get pinched and start to leak. If they are bulging out then its time to replace the bags being sure to clean up the springs if the have rust blisters on them and if the blisters are too bad you may have to replace the springs too.

One way to unload the front suspension if your too close to limits to have a passenger is to shift some weight within reason to behind the rear axle which is why the fresh water tank was located there. With the fresh water tank, under bed storage area and I believe there may be a rear facing storage compartment too left relatively empty you won't have enough counter weight to balance the load on the front suspension.

Be sure to give the AutoPark system and it electrically activated hydraulic brake cylinder hidden underneath the coach beside the tail of the transmission a good going over flushing out and replacing the brake fluid.

On those you also need to give the corrugated cross member visible from the rear compartment a good inspection with a bright light to ensure it has not developed stress cracks where it passes over the frame rails. You may notice a slight hump in the floor as you walk toward the back of the coach when that cross member starts to fail. I had a 1995 Vectra on the P30 Chevy Chassis and have found many coaches on the P30 with that issue. Most appeared to have been from up North and had been driven during the winter months.