Tow dolly with surge brakes

Cpy2 · 03-19-2019, 03:21 PM

We just purchased an Intent 30R and want to tow a car on a dolly. The Intent manual states not to use a dolly with surge brakes. Anyone have experience with this or an explanation?

PennBruce · 03-20-2019, 12:17 AM

I will be interested to see the replies to this.

The only draw back I can think of with surge brakes is the necessity to lock out the actuator when reversing.

Bruce

Tucsontoy · 03-20-2019, 01:12 AM

I use a Kar Kaddy with surge brakes. It can back a little if I put the pin in to lock the dolly steering rod. I almost never back up with it. Only once did I have to remove the car and move the dolly by hand then hook up again. Once was enough.

khocke · 03-20-2019, 08:01 AM

Subscribed...
I have an Acme surge brake tow dolly under a Fiesta ST and tow with my Forza. Curious why a surge brake model isn't supposed to be used.

Mike Owens · 03-20-2019, 09:10 AM

This will be interesting as supplemental braking is required in allot of states depending on weight.

thompwil · 03-20-2019, 09:24 AM

Again, for what it's worth, this is a screen shot from our 2018 manual with the 18K GVWR F53 chassis. It warns of possible premature hitch assembly failure. Please don't shoot the messenger, this is in my owners manual. I've found in life that such warnings are usually inspired by incidents, though I can't cite any examples in this case. This is why we went with the Blue Ox tow bar and Stay-in-Play braking system over the less expensive options.

Mike Owens · 03-20-2019, 10:42 AM

Completly believe you and more than likely it is the force on the hitch assembly. The transition from a static load (of a normal towing situation) to the dynamic (forward surge of weight) and then breaking can put more strain on the assembly. Just my two cents...

Reniram · 03-24-2019, 09:00 AM

I see they recommend the electric braking system via adjustable controller and that may be the reason.The end result is that both trailer wheels are assisting with the total stopping power and the surge braking may not be as accurate as in too much or too little effect...I still don't fully understand though because the ball mount hookup remains the same..must be some legal jargon to cover and insulate them from insurance liabilities

HandyJimBob · 03-24-2019, 05:38 PM

We have a Vista 35F, and pulled our Honda Odyssey mini van on a Master Tow dolly with surge brakes for a couple of trips between Massachusetts and Florida without braking problems. Winnebago discourages the use of surge brakes, however, because doing so can place "excessive stress on the hitch." In the end, we found the tow dolly to be more trouble than it was worth, and went with a Blue Ox tow bar system to tow our car (2017 Chevy Sonic) four-on-the-ground. Getting ready to pull out with the dolly took me 10 to 20 minutes (a lot of that time just trying to drive on-center onto the dolly), whereas with the tow bar I'm done in less than 5 minutes every time.

Oldchinahand · 03-24-2019, 06:12 PM

Time for another two cents?

We too, have an Acme tow dolly for our Camry XLE. More often, we flat tow our Ranger with electric brakes. Over the years, we have towed a 4000lb Catalina 22, a 7500lb Catalina 27 - both with surge brakes, a 21ft bass boat with electric brakes and various utility trailers, also with surge brakes. I much prefer surge brakes due to their simplicity. I'm sure some will differ.

Closely re-reading your manual, I am struck by their strong guidance to stay within the 8" pin to ball and 4" ball drop limitations. Back to high school physics, every inch exceeding those guidelines will exponitionaly increase the twisting force on your hitch.

To me, the wording is not so much about surge brakes integral to your trailer (so long as you maintain that 8" & 4" parameter), after all, surge brakes ARE "modulated". I think they are warning you about those after market surge brake assemblies (can't recall the name) that fit in your receiver and have a ball on their outboard end. Those would add about 16" to 18" pin to ball. Lots of potential twisting force there.

Fair Winds and Following Seas

BobC · 03-24-2019, 06:25 PM

Oldchinahand has it right. There are also some threads floating around with similar issues concerning drop hitch receiver. The info in some manuals almost excludes the use of them while others are more liberal in the limits. In those cases, it seems that the use of a moderately sized drop hitch receiver is going to be preferable to the risk of a mis-aligned tow bar.

NeilV · 03-25-2019, 12:56 AM

The hitch capacity on a motor home is usually determined by the frame extensions added to the chassis by the motor home manufacture. If the maker says brakes are required at a certain weight and that the hitch isn't designed to take the load of a surge brake unit then that is pretty much how its designed. That some have yet to get into a situation where it will fail or cause problems does not make it a safe bet to ignore this.

One problem that does come up with surge brakes is lockup in tight turns when you have the safety chains too short or they get tangled. Many times you won't be able to back up or move forward to release the brakes plus the hitch will be bound up so you can't uncouple it which would be dangerous if you did anyways since conceivably several hundred pounds of force could be in play that could be lethal when released.

Yes I have seen a number of people do this and you have to carefully unload the dolly or trailer (it may jump when unloaded so don't stand too close to the side its going to jump to) so it can be shifted back to straight to unload the safety chains and brakes. Trying to remove brake pins to release things can be dangerous as the pin can fly off from the forces involved by the bind its in.

jcurtisis · 05-27-2019, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thompwil

Again, for what it's worth, this is a screen shot from our 2018 manual with the 18K GVWR F53 chassis. It warns of possible premature hitch assembly failure. Please don't shoot the messenger, this is in my owners manual. I've found in life that such warnings are usually inspired by incidents, though I can't cite any examples in this case. This is why we went with the Blue Ox tow bar and Stay-in-Play braking system over the less expensive options.

ThompWil: my Navion 24D has the exact same warning about surge type brakes. I do need a dolly tow for the type car I have...so what type do you recommend? Thanks!

thompwil · 05-28-2019, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcurtisis

ThompWil: my Navion 24D has the exact same warning about surge type brakes. I do need a dolly tow for the type car I have...so what type do you recommend? Thanks!

Since I've never used a tow dolly, I'm really not able to recommend one. I'm sure there are folks on the forum that can though. Perhaps there are models available with electric brakes?? I'm also pretty sure many folks are using dollys with surge brakes too. I only posted the owner's manual page since I thought it may be informative and I was actually a bit surprised when I read it.

Reniram · 06-01-2019, 08:18 AM

We have done several moving trips across the country utilizing U Haul car trailers... The surge brakes are not only on the tow dollies but also on the dual axle car/truck heavy duty car trailers... absolutely no problems...Tow vehicles were Ford suv and U Haul moving van..you are encouraged to buy extra insurance tho ...

GTobey · 06-05-2019, 10:01 PM

We just traveled to Alaska and back, and to Winnebago and back to VA, over 12K miles towing our Acme EZE tow dolly with surge brakes, towing a 2002 Town & Country LXi van. Not the first problem, nor was any wear noted on the cross pin or hitch. I did use the Roadmaster silent hitch pin to tighten the hitch to receiver such that there was not the first bit of play up or down, side to side, or in and out. Well worth the $25.00 for that accessory. I would not hesitate doing it again. It worked very well in the mountains to Skagway and Valdez, never giving me any problem.

I do have my Acme tow dolly for sale as we sold our van, and found a used 2005 Liberty from a neighbor who was upgrading to another SUV to tow 4 down.

Mike Owens · 06-05-2019, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTobey

We just traveled to Alaska and back, and to Winnebago and back to VA, over 12K miles towing our Acme EZE tow dolly with surge brakes, towing a 2002 Town & Country LXi van. Not the first problem, nor was any wear noted on the cross pin or hitch. I did use the Roadmaster silent hitch pin to tighten the hitch to receiver such that there was not the first bit of play up or down, side to side, or in and out. Well worth the $25.00 for that accessory. I would not hesitate doing it again. It worked very well in the mountains to Skagway and Valdez, never giving me any problem.

I do have my Acme tow dolly for sale as we sold our van, and found a used 2005 Liberty from a neighbor who was upgrading to another SUV to tow 4 down.

Do not get lulled into a false sence of security. The stresses may not be visable to the naked eye. The forces applied may damage the welds or bolting and you may not see it. I know the disclamer blah blah but inspect and verify.

GTobey · 06-06-2019, 09:46 AM

I am sure of that Mike. Thanks! Stuff like that scares me so that's why I do complete walk-arounds crawl up under check everything out before I'm able to pull out in the mornings. Every time I stopped during the day, I get out with the walk around and check tires cables lights, everything once more just fo a little more piece of mind.

I just got back from Gaffney South Carolina from Freightliner custom chassis service. We had conversations about my trip, and they checked everything under the coach, suspension bolts, all the bolts on the hitch, the condition of the hitch, air system, brakes, wheel torques...etc! Well worth the small price to keep it in tip top shape!

Americanrascal · 06-07-2019, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cpy2

We just purchased an Intent 30R and want to tow a car on a dolly. The Intent manual states not to use a dolly with surge brakes. Anyone have experience with this or an explanation?

Have used trailers with surge brakes in the past but I prefer not to use them. For the past 5 years we've towed between 60,000 and 70,000 miles to AK and back to GA then cross country several times N,S,E,W with our dolly. Have never had an issue with the electric brakes on our tow dolly. We like the ability to control braking with the controller. The American Car Dolly we have has the controller on the dolly and does not require a dash wired and operated controller making it nice.

I changed the brakes out one time based on general maintenance at about 35,000 miles -- easy project took about 20 minutes each wheel. Removed the 4 mounting bolts for each drum, pulled the drum off, snipped the 2 control wires and reconnected the new brake wires.

System works great with our rig

Joe