Towing Capacity vs. Motor Size

Cayman Dave · 10-10-2007, 04:25 AM

Hi All,
I am looking for some user information. I want to pull a trailer that will probably weight about 16000 lbs loaded. I have looked at several coaches with 330 HP Cats and have been told by one Cat Motor guy that this motor "might be" marginal. Any ideas?
Thanks
David

Cayman Dave · 10-10-2007, 04:25 AM

Hi All,
I am looking for some user information. I want to pull a trailer that will probably weight about 16000 lbs loaded. I have looked at several coaches with 330 HP Cats and have been told by one Cat Motor guy that this motor "might be" marginal. Any ideas?
Thanks
David

jimandsue60 · 10-10-2007, 05:39 AM

"might be marginal" would be an understatement. I would want 450 hp or better. Maybe 330 would work if the motorhome only weighed 15-20K. You will be hard preesed to find a coach that has a 16k tow rating with a 330 cat in it.

Jim

skigramp · 10-10-2007, 05:56 AM

I suggest you concentrate on the towing capacity of the coach ... I think all coaches that have a 16000 pound towing capacity will have an appropriate engine.

This website should help you determine the towing capacity of any coach Towing Terms

This is a "calculator" to help you through the terminology ... Where it says [Truck] use the values for the motorhome you are considering
Towing calculator

Cayman Dave · 10-10-2007, 06:17 AM

Thanks, I have been reading the entire subject in this area and found one guy who I am still trying to re-find who was pulling a stacker with a 350 HP Cat. Want to get his feed back.
Will still be interested in comments. Thanks for the Towing Calculator.

Mikeso · 10-10-2007, 11:33 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thanks, I have been reading the entire subject in this area and found one guy who I am still trying to re-find who was pulling a stacker with a 350 HP Cat. Want to get his feed back.
Will still be interested in comments. Thanks for the Towing Calculator. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the biggest concern will be tongue weight. Guessing it sounds like you're pulling a race car trailer? I pull a 28ft 12000lb with a 350 CAT but I was very attentive to the tongue weight. You don't set any speed records but it will get you down the road without problem. With that weight trailer I would suspect that the tongue weight would be excessive to the point where you you have to go to Hitch Buddy or some other type device.

Cayman Dave · 10-11-2007, 03:29 AM

Hi Mike,
I am thinking about a stacker trailer. Weight of the trailer with out load is 8500 lbs, with load about 13,500 to 15,000. It has a tongue scale so we get the weight to about 1000 lbs or less. That puts it over the rated Gross Combined Weight Rating of almost all the coaches we have looked at. That is not my concern but the HP of the coach and whether we can negotiate the hilly country without all the hassels. I noticed you 350 HP so how do you I would be over by about 3500 lbs. But more to my point of concern is the HP of the coach. I don't want to be the guy holding up the line on a long hill. It is very hard to get information about what will pull what. I noticed you have a 350 I am asuming Cat. Is it a C7 series motor?
How does it pull the hills?
David

Doug Sage · 10-11-2007, 05:20 AM

Hi, Cayman Dave:
The general rule about hitch weight is that it needs to be a minimum of 10% and up to about 14% of the total weight. This is because you will have a major sway problem with less hitch weight than this. Been there, done that, no fun.
I would also worry about greatly exceeding the GCVW rating and then expecting to zoom up the hills. You will be severely taxing the brakes and transmission, etc. You may have problems going down the back side of the hills even with trailer brakes. You cannot ride the brakes all the way down the hills and the motor will not have enough compression to keep it slowed down with this much weight. I think you need to rethink this. Try going to a much larger motorhome based on a bus chassis.
Good luck.

Mikeso · 10-11-2007, 06:16 AM

Dave,
The weight I'm pulling is certainly reaching the outer limit of the coach. I've seen numerous MH's at the track pulling stackers, many with the C7 Cat but I think you need to be careful. You certainly aren't going to be setting speed records climbing hills. I can't tell from your profile what part of the country you are from but out here in SoCal we have to negotiate alot mountains to get anywhere. Pulling some of the mountains out here in the summer months the engine and transmission temperatures do start to climb. Most stackers are going to be 3 axle so you should have plenty of braking back there going down hill but you certainly can't rely on the MH to do all the stopping for you. Down hill speeds will need to be watched. The best route for your combo would be to go with the larger coach and chassis and 400hp.

jimandsue60 · 10-11-2007, 06:34 AM

Have you looked at this style motorhome I am sure you have seen them at the track. Their price ranges are similar to conventional motorhomes, but will tow a whole lot more.

Jim

Cayman Dave · 10-11-2007, 08:13 AM

Doug,
Thanks for information. Problem is I cannot find a coach that would haul that load. I think we are talking about something in excess of 42 feet. I know there are a lot of these trailers being towed with less. But I do understand the potential problems.
Thanks again
David

Cayman Dave · 10-11-2007, 08:18 AM

Mike,
The bigger motor home with a 400 HP is where I am headed. This gets crazy even the 400 hp rigs are not rated to pull this load as the differential is only about 10000lbs, and I am over that by 3500 lbs at least. The trailer has three axels with brakes. We are currently based on the East Coast but the Blueridge has plenty of hills. We are thinking about the West and I guess really don;t want to be liminted but rig or trailer to anywhere.
Thanks for the information.
David

Cayman Dave · 10-11-2007, 08:21 AM

Jim,
I have looked at them and they are rated to pull something like 45,000 lbs. Just have problems with the overall look. But maybe worth another look. Don't want to be in the Prevost range with this idea.
Thanks for the information.
David

DonavonP · 10-11-2007, 10:39 AM

Hi Dave, I can't answer your question but I just wanted to point out the classified section of IRV2. There are some toy haulers and a stacker listed. FYI http://www.irv2.com/rvclassifieds/category.php?type=1

I pulled a 8000 lb trailer all over Mexico and the US with 230HP diesel pusher with absolutely no problems in the HP dept.
(6 speed Allison/Cummins 5.9)

Cayman Dave · 10-11-2007, 11:22 AM

Donavan,
The problem is the trailer will be something north of 13,500 lbs and that is about 3500 lbs more than the coach is supposed to haul.
Thanks for the reply
David

Mikeso · 10-11-2007, 11:51 AM

Dave,
We had looked into the Renegades MH's and the like before we bought our Journey. When we were first considering it, it was exciting to think about. Harkening back to childhood days thinking of what it would be like to drive a 'big rig'. Sounded like fun. Then I had the opportunity to ride in one with a racing partner from San Diego to Vegas. The first 40-50 miles it seemed pretty neat. 150 miles down the road and I was at a point that I couldn't wait to get there. Compared to a DP they are noisy and ride like, well let's face it, like a truck. For a purpose built vehicle they do what they are meant to do, pull things. If creature comforts are not at the top of your list, one of these types of vehicles is probably just what you are looking for. Sure they have the normal MH type appliances and goodies but it's the way the are laid out. IMHO they are rather stark.
Myself, I was looking for something that after a long day of being at the track I could relax in something that was comfortable and felt more like home, hence, my Journey. Luv my Journey!!
Mike

Cayman Dave · 10-11-2007, 12:18 PM

Mike,
I am about to give up on the whole thing. I don't know how the stacker guys sell those things. About the only thing that will tow them is a Prevost of Marathon and that is out of my league. I have looked at the ATC but they are not enough lighter to make any difference and they are a lot more money for the most part. That being said there is a used one for sale that is some less than the one I was going to build but with out some of the features I was going to have.
Thanks
David

Mikeso · 10-11-2007, 01:36 PM

Dave,
I don't know that I would completely give up on the idea. There are certainly people pulling stackers and they aren't driving Prevosts. I towed the same trailer I have now with a MH that only had a 300hp Cummins. A 350 Cat will pull a stacker you just need to be nice to it. Is the stacker you are looking at all aluminum?
Mike

skipsor · 10-11-2007, 02:38 PM

Cayman Dave, I think you ought to be looking at one of the motorhomes based on a Freightliner/Peterbilt/Kenworth chassis. These are good for towing 40K and they have the power you will need.

Although I'm not positive on this but, I don't think you will find a class A MH capable of towing 16K.

jimandsue60 · 10-11-2007, 03:38 PM

Cayman Dave, I don't know what your budget is but if you can do a mid 90's prevost you will see them for 150K and up.

I wanted a truck conversion but Susan said they were to manly.

Jim