'04 Horizon, entry door "Pop" when opening, don't think it's normal

[FIRE UP]

Gents,
On our newly purchased '04 Horizon 36GD, the entry door "Pops" severely when it's opened to just about the full open position. It has to do with the limit arm in the center of the door, in the hinge area. I certainly don't think it's supposed to do that or be that loud. I think I'll have to remove the plastic cover on the inside of the door and see what kind of mechanism is in there and deal with it. Anyone had/has this kind of problem with their entry door?

On most Fleetwood products (and maybe others) there's a limit strut that connects the top of the door frame to the top of the door and utilizes a scissors type action when closing and opening. It limits the door from opening too far (about 90 degrees) but, on the Horizons, and maybe other Winne/Itasca products, there's this little limit arm/hinge in the middle of the door that's suppose do stop this monster/heavy door from being opened too far, even in windy conditions. Sure seems kind of "cheesy' to me.
Scott

[CC38EL]

The design of this door overtravel stop maybe looks good on paper. But it is cheesy and has failed on my coach too.

Once I took the inner door panel off, I could see where the metal had cracked and become really loose. The popping noise I heard was the arm reaching its limit and then moving past the broken part which was supposed to stop it.

On our coach, it looks like the whole thing was welded to the door. Not a user replaceable part....except for the arm.

I installed a stainless steel door brace at the base of the door, closest to the hinge. It looks ok, but definitely not OEM.

[MD556]

You're right - it didn't "pop" when it was new. It's not an uncommon problem, but the only solution is parts replacement. Here's a link to an earlier thread (http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/entr...lem-62057.html) that may provide some help. I've ordered and received the parts for our door, just haven't slowed down long enough to install it yet!! Seems to me the parts cost was in the neighborhood of $100 (I ordered from Lichtsinn along with some other parts - excellent folks to work with, BTW) and don't anticipate any major problems with the install. Call them with your Winnie serial # (not VIN), and they can guide you in the parts you need. Or, go to the Winnie site: Manuals & Diagrams and look up the parts yourself in the parts catalog. This is also a great link for any wiring and plumbing diagrams you may need in the future. Don't forget to register as a "second owner" on the Winnie site while you're there.

MD

[FIRE UP]

Thanks a ton guys,
I certainly appreciate it. I was pretty sure it's not supposed to be and act like that. I guess they (Winne/Itasca) thought it was a better idea then what Fleetwood and others use on that scissors type strut on the top of the door. Although I don't know how much those fail or, become defective too. I know you didn't say anything about welding and I'm certainly capable and have the equipment for it but, I'd hate to screw up the outside paint due to it, if needed.

I want to thank you for the links for the repair parts etc. I'll dig into the door later and see what's up in there and then jump onto the link for what's needed.
Scott

[Martind4]

Our door "popped" for awhile and then the mechanism finally broke. The local Winnie dealer ordered the parts and I installed them. He said there was a "revised design" available so that's what he ordered.

The install was easy, but now our door doesn't open a full 90 degrees, probably closer to 80 degrees, makes it difficult for larger people with their hands full to get in the door. I couldn't see any way to make an adjustment. Someday I'll check with the dealer again to see if there is another design or part available.

Good luck.

[AFChap]

When the door is over-extended by wind or whatever, the metal plate on the small rubber "cushion" gets bent, and the metal "strap" itself also bends. The "pop" is normally the bent strap contacting the door. I have replaced mine once, and removed it again a couple of months ago to straighten the strap after a park. Host let the door go in 50mph winds. As far as I could see the "new design" did nothing to really help/improve the weakness of the setup. If your door opens to anywhere near 90 degrees, the strap is visibly bent.

[FIRE UP]

Thanks again to you nice folks for lending me some insite to the problem. I'm on the door problem today. I'll let everyone know just what's going on when I dig into it.
Scott

[Automobilist]

Can you swing by and fix mine when you're done?

[theroc]

I was at a small Winny rally recently and it was funny how many of the pushers had that "pop" when the front door was extended open. I even noticed one that had the pop and even had the "door stop gizmo" from 3Gs.

A service advisor at the dealer where I purchased my coach told me it's not worth fixing as it will just happen again eventually. He told me to learn to live with the pop but I'd sure be interested in a permanent fix.

[AFChap]

Forgot to mention, while I had my door opened up I added sheet styrofoam to the empty cavity where there was no insulation at all, and spray foam to the inaccessible "box" cavity at the bottom.

[FIRE UP]

OK Gang,
Here's the deal. I opened up the door by removing the inner plastic door cover, exposing the mechanism. In the pics, you'll see the door frame, the mini hinge passing through it, it turns into a horizontal "Y" at that point. Inside the horizontal "Y" is the end of the slider bar that comes from the other side of the long, vertical, rectangle component that, I assume has some sort of spring mechanism(s) inside it that rides on either the horizontal y or, the bar or, both. Now I assume that when the door reaches a point where it's close to "full open", that spring mechanism(s)ride into a detente or, divot in either the bar or the horizontal "Y".

Now, here's where it gets interesting. You'll see in some of the pics, on the bar side of the vertical rectangular object, as the bar emerges from that rectangle, there's a flat piece of rubber, a flat (sort of tweaked a bit) square washer and a vertical roll pin. As you open the door, that flat piece of rubber is moving towards the rectangle and at a certain point, that roll pin, flat steel washer and rubber slam against the vertical rectangle. I did it several times to watch its action. The popping I hear is, what ever is happening inside the vertical rectangle. At that precise instant, the rubber bumper slams against the rectangle.

So, as an experiment, I cut another piece of rubber, about the same exact thickness and, slid it in between the flat square steel washer and the original piece of rubber. Then, I operated the door again, the pop is almost completely GONE! Yes, it's there but, it's only about 1/100th as intense as it was without the addition of my piece of rubber. And, I operated the door several times to see if there were any adverse effects of installing that piece of rubber. NONE!

The mechanism still operates normally only it doesn't SLAM against the vertical rectangle 'cause it's got a shock absorber in there now. Why wasn't it in there from the factory, heck, I don't know. I suppose I could dismantle that rectangle and analyze the spring mechanism(s) inside it but, I'm not sure just what that would prove, maybe something, maybe nothing. The rubber I inserted was a hard (but still pliable) piece, not foam insulation. And, it appears it just so happens, it was the right thickness for the correct operation of the door limit mechanism. The door now opens to about the 80-85 degree position and is held there by the mechanism. Where as before, without the addition of the little rubber piece, it would open easily to the 90 degree position and with the slightest amount of additional force, it would keep going.

Is this a permanent cure, well, it is for now. I'm very skeptical of "easy" fixes like this. Nothing ever goes that easy for me. I usually have to remove the engine, trans, and tires and wheels to fix something in the fridge. So, take a look at the pics and, oh yeah, there's a couple of videos that you may or may not be able to open and view to see the action and maybe hear it before and after the installation of the rubber piece. See what you think.
Scott
P.S. Pic one is the mechanism
Pic two shows my piece of rubber
Pic three show the right side with the original rubber, washer and roll pin
Pics four and five are videos showing the mechanism operation before and after the installation of the additional rubber bumper. You must "CLICK" on them to operate the video. In the second one, it's so silent now, you have to listen close for the muffled "Pop", not like the first one.

[AFChap]

I looked carefully at your pictures and videos, and believe your extra piece of rubber kind of cures the problem by limiting the travel of the door, but masks the fact that the strap is bent sideways.

In the first video, the first time you move the door and cause the pop sound I can see the end of the strap that protrudes from the door to the door frame. I contend that point is where the pop sound is actually happening as the hinge point on the strap catches on the outside edge of the hole it passes through. (my door actually has grooves worn in it at that point where the first badly bent strap was rubbing before I replaced it). If you unpin the strap inside the door, then open the door enough to pull the strap through the spring, then you can unpin the strap from the door frame and pull it out. I believe you will find it bent/warped. I laid the strap on a railroad tie and then used a shop hammer to pount/bend my strap back straight. I think it also would be a good idea to use a thicker/stronger "square washer" as you call it, so that piece would be less likely to bend ...probably would not keep the strap from bending though... To put the strap back on just go in reverse ...first insert it into the door and pin it to the door frame, then guide it to the spring as you slowly pull the door toward the closed position. Once the strap pops through the spring, you can put the rubber and square washer back on and pin it on the door end.

[FIRE UP]

Paul,
Thanks for helping me analyze this situation. I'm not disagreeing with you on your idea of where the "Pop" is coming from but, in my opinion, it's coming from inside the vertical "box" where, what ever type of mechanism is riding on that bar. Since you've had yours apart, do you remember the two 1/4-20 screws, one entering from the top and one from the bottom of that vertical box? They're both not tight, and have threads showing. I'm almost assuming they're some sort of adjustment for the spring tension that rides on that bar as it passes through and provides a detente for holding the door in the open position.

I'm just guessing here. I could be completely wrong about that assumption. It's working fine right now. But, based on your ideas and instructions, I'm going to zap that plastic cover off the door soon and re-analyze the whole thing and replace that chincy square washer with something a bit more stout. But, when you say "un-pin" things, those are double ended rivets that are used for all the pivot points on that strap/bar that enters the door aren't they? I'd have to grind them off if they are and then come up with some sort of new hinge pin when it comes time to replace them. Again, I'm only assuming here.

I'm always up for correction on my ideas or thoughts here so, don't be afraid of telling me what the actuals are. Thanks again for your help here.
Scott

[cbeierl]

If you take a look at this posting over on rvforum.net Horizon Door Hinge you can see a picture of what your 'vertical box' looks like.

[AFChap]

On the door end, use a punch and hammer to tap the large pin that contacts the flat washer out of the strap. Then when you have the strap pulled out of the spring (by opening the door wide) the door frame end of the strap should be held by a pin with a snap ring on the bottom ...pretty easy removal. Then if you want you can remove the "box" by loosening the two long small bolts/nuts. The "box" cannot come out while the strap is in place. The original "box" had steel springs inside. The new improved version has blocks of a yellow translucent solid springy substance. The "box" has one each screw/bolt on top and bottom that can be turned to increase/reduce the tension on the strap, presumably making it harder/easier to close the door. I have not played with those adjustments.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by AFChap

On the door end, use a punch and hammer to tap the large pin that contacts the flat washer out of the strap. Then when you have the strap pulled out of the spring (by opening the door wide) the door frame end of the strap should be held by a pin with a snap ring on the bottom ...pretty easy removal. Then if you want you can remove the "box" by loosening the two long small bolts/nuts. The "box" cannot come out while the strap is in place. The original "box" had steel springs inside. The new improved version has blocks of a yellow translucent solid springy substance. The "box" has one each screw/bolt on top and bottom that can be turned to increase/reduce the tension on the strap, presumably making it harder/easier to close the door. I have not played with those adjustments.

Paul,
Roger all that. I will take a closer look at all that tomorrow. Thanks very much for the instructions on the "box" and the removal of the strap/bar.
Scott

Originally Posted by cbeierl

If you take a look at this posting over on rvforum.net Horizon Door Hinge you can see a picture of what your 'vertical box' looks like.

Chris,
I must be missing something, I cannot find any pics on that link you sent me. I looked up and down all the comments and people are talking about pics but, I don't see any, sorry.
Scott

[cbeierl]

I'm not sure why you can't see the pics there--perhaps it's a browser setting on your end. You should see a number of 'thumbnail' pics and if you click on them they should expand to a full-size pic.

Here's what I posted over there:

I just replaced my original 2005 door check with the 2007 version (128913-15-713 EA DOOR CHECK KIT W/HOUSING 491109). I could detect only two differences comparing the new parts to the old. The original flat metal piece had a slight bend in the end near the door jam--I can't tell for sure whether it was made that way or was bent in use, but RVQueen's earlier picture showed a similar bend. The new aluminum spring tensioner block now uses a rubbery yellow/brown plastic spring material instead of the original blue metal springs. Other than that the parts looked identical.

[FIRE UP]

Chris,
Well Sir, I can surely see that pic. That's a great shot of the "innards" of the mechanism. I kind-a thought it would look like that. Apparently on the drawing board, the engineers must have thought it would be dependable and a good mechanism. But, based on the reading(s) here, its track record is slipping some. I have no idea how many are traveling down the road problem free so, it's hard to tell if it's a wide spread problem.
Also, it's been around for a while (the problem) because they've upgraded the mechanism somewhat and, some of you are saying the upgrade is not all that much better. Oh well, thanks so much for your sharing the photo so we all can see what's going on in there.
Scott

P.S. I too am wondering why I could not see the pics in the other site. Usually if pics are available and people like me cannot open them up, there's a little box with a red x in it but, I see nothing like that either. It's like no one's attached any pics at all as I see it. Hmmmmmm.
Scott

[FIRE UP]

Chris,
The wife just got onto the house computer and brought up this site and these posts. When she clicked on your link to find pics of the box, she's not seeing any pics either and her computer is a late 2010 with Windows 7 and all the latest viewing additional stuff. I'm wondering, do you by any chance, have to me a member of that forum to view the pics? I think I've seen that in the past but not sure.
Scott

[cbeierl]

I don't think you have to join to be able to see the pictures, but it's easy to signup and see if that works better. I find both forums (here and there) to be useful sources of information.