Emergency Start Not Working

Nomad Mike · 04-27-2015, 07:15 PM

I've been doing some mods to my new coach and have not started it for a couple weeks. After two weeks of owning it, I noticed the chassis battery was low at 11.9 and I started her up and ran for a while - maybe a half hour. Now two weeks later, the chassis shows 3.8. Maybe I did not charge it enough, and I left the map light on above the driver seat - I thought that would be house battery and I'm on 50A connection.

So I tried to use the emergency start and that was a no go. I could hear the solenoid click when I press the momentary toggle and held it on while trying to start.

Am I using it correctly? Is the voltage just too low for the emergency start? I still don't see how it could get so low in just two weeks.

I have an Amp-L-Start that I am installing next - too late for now

Mike

HoneyBadger · 04-27-2015, 07:22 PM

Stuff in the cab that would be powered by the battery if it were in a car will also be powered by the chassis battery in your MH.

I'd consider whether you have sulfation debris inside the battery shorting the plates out.

Davdeb1 · 04-27-2015, 07:25 PM

The chassis shows 3.8? How is that possible? If you have only one house battery, it may not be enough. Did it crank any faster?
If you are going to leave it parked, just using the battery cut off switch will help you.

OLYLEN · 04-27-2015, 07:28 PM

One battery bank or the other energizes the solenoid. If it is the chassis bank there may not be enough to close the solenoid and give you the start or the start batteries may be too low to work right away. Press and hold the emergency start switch for ten minutes or so then try the start. You may also be able to use jumper cables from the house to motor battery banks. Just make sure you get the 12 volt side if you have 6 volt house bank. Also you can take a look at your volt meter on the dash and see if you get a reaction when pushing the emergency start switch.
Lights of any type or size use a great amount of battery power even a small one for a long time, cars can run a battery down overnight if interior SMALL lights are left on.

LEN

Nomad Mike · 04-27-2015, 07:51 PM

I've disconnected the chassis batteries(2) and I am charging to outboard one first. While that is charging I got out a volt meter and found the inner battery at 8.9 volts. I did not check the one charging but it is taking a charge at 10A.

The house batteries (3) are at 12.9 and chassis at 3.8 according to the EMS.

I see no chassis cutoff switch and my understanding is there is not one on this 2005. Which is why I purchased an Amp-L-Start to install next week, a week too late apparently.

Looking at the emergency solenoid - I believe that I'm correct, it has only one fuse but two spots for a fuse. Is one spot for holding a spare? I kind of looks like a fuse for inbound current and one for outbound current? Any ideas on that fuse? See picture.

Lastly, how would a jump start with two 12v batteries in parallel?

skigramp · 04-27-2015, 08:09 PM

It sounds like your chassis batteries are "over the hill" ... can you see any dates on either of them?
I have jump started my former rig from my toad. I connected the cables, started the toad, ran the toad for about 5 minutes, it started right away
Before I installed a Trickle-Start, I used jumper cables {probably for about an hour about once a week} between the house and chassis batteries to keep them charged.

grtharris · 04-27-2015, 08:14 PM

Nomad Mike, power for the Aux Battery switch comes from the coach batteries. If you hear the relay clicking the chassis battery may have just been to low and you would need to hold the aux switch in a few minutes before trying to start.

Nomad Mike · 04-27-2015, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skigramp

It sounds like your chassis batteries are "over the hill" ... can you see any dates on either of them?
I have jump started my former rig from my toad. I connected the cables, started the toad, ran the toad for about 5 minutes, it started right away
Before I installed a Trickle-Start, I used jumper cables between the house and chassis batteries to keep them charged.

I think your right, they and probably the house batteries are "over the hill". New batteries are on the to-do list. But I want any issues that may affect the batteries solved first and a solar, inverter etc are happening at the same time - or close to the same time.

My charger has starting capability up to 200A.

I have not seen any dates on the 5 batteries. None of the stickers for the date have any punches and no other labels with the dates. The two chassis batts are maintenance free while the 3 house are not maintenance free.

Any ideas about that fuse?

Nomad Mike · 04-27-2015, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtharris

Nomad Mike, power for the Aux Battery switch comes from the coach batteries. If you hear the relay clicking the chassis battery may have just been to low and you would need to hold the aux switch in a few minutes before trying to start.

I'm charging the batteries now, so I probably won't have a chance to try that now. But thanks.

grtharris · 04-27-2015, 08:22 PM

Nomad Mike, in your picture that is the Coach battery disconnect relay. The aux start relay is to the left.

grtharris · 04-27-2015, 08:25 PM

Nomad Mike, I put a Amp-L-Start on our 03 Journey and it still had the factory chassis batteries in when we sold it after 8 years. I put one on our new coach but come to find out I did't need it.

Nomad Mike · 04-27-2015, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtharris

Nomad Mike, in your picture that is the Coach battery disconnect relay. The aux start relay is to the left.

Thank you, I was just going to post that after finding it in the wiring diagram.

Any idea why it has only one fuse in the batt disconnect relay?

So the aux start relay is working if I hear it click, or could it be not passing voltage? Does it work like a jump start applying voltage to the chassis batteries? If so, I'm sure because of the very low volts of the chassis batteries it would not have helped.

I'm sure if my batteries were not toast, they are now.

grtharris · 04-27-2015, 08:59 PM

Nomad Mike, the fuse on the Disconnect relay feeds wire LJ which is the power for the Disconnect relay circuit.
Yes the Aux relay can click and not pass current. The aux relay does two things in normal mode when the engine in running it is closed connecting the chassis battery to the coach battery thus charging the coach battery when you are driving down the road. The other function is to connect the coach battery to the chassis battery to help start the engine.
Once you getting everything charged up and with the engine running you should have the same voltage on the coach battery as you have on the chassis battery. If not check the for a voltage across the aux relay.

Nomad Mike · 04-27-2015, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtharris

Nomad Mike, the fuse on the Disconnect relay feeds wire LJ which is the power for the Disconnect relay circuit.
Yes the Aux relay can click and not pass current. The aux relay does two things in normal mode when the engine in running it is closed connecting the chassis battery to the coach battery thus charging the coach battery when you are driving down the road. The other function is to connect the coach battery to the chassis battery to help start the engine.
Once you getting everything charged up and with the engine running you should have the same voltage on the coach battery as you have on the chassis battery. If not check the for a voltage across the aux relay.

Ok, thanks I will check that out.

About the fuse on the battery disconnect, I guess I'm confused as to why there are two fuse holders and only one fuse? The wiring diagram shows a 5 amp fuse and does not say how many.

Since the coach batteries do disconnect when I flip the switch on the dash, it must be working properly.

grtharris · 04-27-2015, 10:43 PM

Nomad Mike, here is a simplified drawing for the Battery disconnect relay. There is only one fuse because they only pickup power on the battery side of the relay.

Nomad Mike · 04-27-2015, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtharris

Nomad Mike, I put a Amp-L-Start on our 03 Journey and it still had the factory chassis batteries in when we sold it after 8 years. I put one on our new coach but come to find out I did't need it.

Where did you install your Amp-L-Start? I'm thinking of using the solenoid vs putting it in the battery bay.

Nomad Mike · 04-27-2015, 11:07 PM

I found a 2006 diagram for the Trik-L-Start. Pic below. Yellow wire to the coach side of the battery relay disconnect and blue to the chassis side of the aux relay. Does that sound right? I guess that would allow you to stop the Amp-L-Start from charging the chassis when the house battery disconnect is used.

cbeierl · 04-27-2015, 11:19 PM

Here's the relevant Winnebago Service Tip with instruction for installing in the Journey/Meridian and Vectra/Horizon: 2006-04 Trik-L-Start -

. Note that the LSLProducts link in the pdf file is out of date--it's now Ultra TRIK-L-START Starting Battery Charger/Maintainer (with .net instead of .com).

grtharris · 04-28-2015, 12:51 PM

Nomad Mike, I connected the Amp-L-Start to the coach battery side of the isolation relay and the chassis battery side of the Aux start relay.

Nomad Mike · 04-28-2015, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grtharris

Nomad Mike, I connected the Amp-L-Start to the coach battery side of the isolation relay and the chassis battery side of the Aux start relay.

I didn't see an isolation relay in there or in the wire diagram. Is it part of the emergency start solenoid? I will probably follow the 06' 34H diagram for the install.

So after charging the batteries and starting her this morning I measured some voltages at the chassis and coach side of the emergency start solenoid while the engine was running.

The chassis had 13.9 and the house only 12.8. This is the same as the house batteries measure directly on the battery - shore power disconnected.

Shouldn't it be measuring 13.9 too? Maybe this solenoid is failing. Sometimes I did see as much as 13v, but not even close to 13.9 charging as from the alternator.