Full wall slide out sags

[LAT-LON]

Drilling the new holes in the top plate was a chore. Might have been a little easier if I had removed the roller bearing axle, but it's history now. I've one of the top nuts screwed into the new rod. As you can appreciate, there's not a lot of room between the plate and the coach floor, so locating the nut and keeping it in place while screwing in the rod is anything but fun.

The other side is being more of a bother because I got too close to the weld holding the original bolt head in place. A solution for that has been developed and both rods should be in place today. Then I'll be able to make the height adjustments as outlined in the document located is the following link:

http://www.liveworkdream.com/wp-cont...djust_Vert.pdf

Like you, I'm not sure that the bracket roller bearings ever carried any load since I've owned the coach. It's very possible that since the original bolts were carrying all of the load for the middle of the slide, that they snapped during the delivery from the factory. Guess I was fortunate that the slide didn't sag more than it did. If the roller bearings share the load some, maybe it will not happen again.

I agree that the top plate isn't ideal. Now mine has two additional holes along with the four that were existing, so the plate is a little more compromised. Plus come to shove, I could weld a daughter plate on the bottom surface to help.

My experience with "Certified" RV technicians hasn't been any better than yours, so I avoid taking my coach into the shop at all costs. Seems like they always break more that they fix.

Two-niner: I can't speak for Pokgunner, but my 2011 Suncruiser has travel locks and I have used them religiously. The locks don't prevent the failure of the slide height mounting bracket assembly. They only keep the slide from extending while you are traveling. I'm not sure which slide mechanisms are in your Tour, but it would be worth a look see.

[pokgunner]

LAT-LON
I guess I had a brain fade. I thought you were going to drill out the old bolts. I never considered trying to dill a whole new set (both the roller bracket and the mickey mouse mounting plate). I question if drilling that was any more or less work than welding a plate in. But I think yours may be the better idea as even with grade 8 the all thread may still be the weak link. I am sure that with my fix the mickey mouse plate is the weak link.

Thank you for the link, but it is not what I have been looking for and neither Winnebago nor Lippert will help me. The link tells you how to adjust the slide to the rams. Wherein I am pretty sure that our problem comes from the rams not being mounted to the chassis frame correctly. One would think they would all be level with the frame, as mine are now.

On mine from the factory only the rear ram was almost level. The other two sloped. That is the front one had the mounting nearest the center of the chassis frame 5/16” closer to the top of the frame than the out ward mounting was. For the middle ram I can not get to the near center mount to measure. But by using a level, protractor and trig, I can deduce it sloped in the opposite direction from the front ram. But the slope was closer to 1/2”. Thus the middle ram took the most weight, even if the weight was evenly distributed. What made it worse is that the most weight (refrigerator) is near middle of the slide.

According to Winnebago there are no directions nor drawings on where to mount the rams. The drawings do show a dimension with a note to adjust as appropriate. Only one of my rams were within ¼” of the dimension. So I am pretty sure that the people of the factory floor just get it close (+/- ½”) and do not care about the results as long as there is enough room in the slots on the drawings you provided to mount the slide at a height where the trim matches. Since the rams are mounted to the frame randomly some of us get the 34,000 miles before the bolts are “expected” fail, and some of have broken bolts when we take delivery. Others may never get the surprise.

I wish there was a way to contact someone at Winnebago that cares. Not because I want them to pay for my fixes, I do not even want them to admit that it was assembled improperly. I just want them to do something to prevent this problem form occurring for new owners. I guess they find it cheaper to just frustrate the few of us that incur the problem. Or perhaps enough of us have been so frustrated that they have fixed the problem in newer units and they just do not want to admit to the frustrated that there was a problem to begin with.

Again if you find out where the rams are to be located in relation to the frame, I would appreciate you letting me know. I am curious as to where yours are located, now and from the factory.

Two-niner:
Lat Lon and I have the same coach except his is one year newer. In my case the slideout lock is sadly funny. When I took delivery the dealer rep was explaining the control panel. I asked him why is there a key lock and a switch lock. He said it was to be sure that kids did not play with the slide. I made a cynical remark about the over kill and he agreed. Later one of the service centers, which raised the slide but failed to discover the broken bolts, told me that the reason the slide kept falling is that we were not using the slideout lock. He proclaimed that the lock helps support the weight when traveling. Later I learned on my own (when trying to find out why one of them quit working) that they do not hold any weight. They prevent the slide from coming out, in the event that the motor locks fail when cornering.

So it would seem that not only does Winnebago fail to be sure that the rams are attached to the frame correctly, fail to alert their “authorized” service centers about the broken bolts, fail to train those centers how to adjust the rams, but they also fail to train their dealers and service centers on what the slide out lock is for.

Then there is their customer relations training that produces such brilliance that we should expect some bolts to fail after 34,000 miles.

If I was 30 years younger I would get in to the RV business. With competition like Winnebago, and of what I now know of most of the others, how could I lose? I know that are many like me that would rather spend 5 to 15 percent more at the time of purchase than to spend 15 to 30 percent more (and a lot of frustrated hours) after purchase. The 21% I am not at could have been done by Winnebago for 4%.

[MrsChilerick]

OMG, I am so happy the OP posted this. Our slide out has been "sagging" more and more each year. I thought it was just that the full side slide was too heavy since it was the kitchen. It NEVER occurred to me there might be a problem with the bolts breaking. Now I'm going to have to have the DH do some investigation based on these posts. Thanks for the insights!

[LAT-LON]

Pokgunner:

Maybe I never made my self clear about the drilling. Drilling out the bolts was never considered an option. Between the bolts possibly being hardened steel, the size of the bolt head and the weld material it just didn't work.

Only had to drill new holes in the top bracket. The bolt holes in the roller bearing bracket were slots with enough width to allow for the new holes above. Did have one problem I'm still working. I'm using 1/2" 13 shoulder nuts for the added surface area and built in locking feature. I had to estimate the location of the new holes, taking into account the existing bolt heads and weld slag. The left side went well, but there was more weld on the right side that I couldn't see, so I'm having to slot that hole for the nut to clear the weld. May need to buy another tool to expedite the process. Hopefully get it all done today. DW is itching to get on the road to find some cooler weather.

[LAT-LON]

Got'er done.

See pic below:

http://www.irv2.com/forums/attachmen...1&d=1472317844

[pokgunner]

Great picture for those that do not know what we have been writing about.

As I said I had a brain fade and never considered a new bolt location, I think I would have tried you fix if I had. To bad Winnebago did not admit to the problem and tell us which fix will work best. Yours not doubt unless it is a design flaw and your bolts will fail again. But if they do at least you can replace them without, drilling again.

And with your fix it is still adjustable. Have you check to see how the other rams are positioned relative to the frame? I am pretty sure that is the problem if it is not a design flaw, Yeah I know that is a big if.

Have you adjusted your other rams? How did you decide on how high to set the middle roller bracket.

FYI attached is a photo of my fix. You sill see three welds. That is because I first welded in a plate that set the roller bracket at the same height it was when the bolts sheared. Then I decide that roller bracket was was set at the factory too high. Do not know if I am right about that and Winnebago refuses to help. But I suspect that since it was too high, the ram carried too much weight. So I cut the bottom half of the plate out and welded in a wider piece.

It may just be wishful thinking that I have set everything right, but both my wive and I thing that the slide moves out and in much smother and faster than before. She noticed it without me asking her about it.






,

[UFO Pilot]

I just found this thread so I am late to the party. 3 of the 6 bolts on my large slide sheared of about 2 years ago. I found a local RV repair shop and he managed to drill out the broken bolts and replace them with grade 8 ones. It took about 10 hours of labor but my service contract paid for 8 hours and the new bolts. 2 years later and all seems to be good.

[LAT-LON]

Pokgunner:

Time will tell which solution is the best. Your is definitely stronger and more permanent.

I set the height of the roller bearing bracket by measuring the amount of the exposed thread on the original sheared bolts then adjusted the spacing between the two brackets to match. The end result seems to have the slide back to its original position. No more interference when opening the we basement door.

I've measured the distance between the 3 bars and their corresponding slide floors. The bars are distances are as follows:

Bar "A" "B"

Front 7 7/8" 8"
Mid 8" 8 1/8"
Rear 7 3/4" 7 3/4"

The rear appears to be low, but in reading everything I have found that may be for squaring the slide out to the hole in the chassis wall. Nothing binds or appears to add too much pressure on the floor in the bedroom, so I'll let it go and keep an eye on it.

The shoulder nuts have a locking feature on the contact surface of the shoulder that should keep them in place. In retrospect, I should have put some thread locker on the bolt before tightening them down. If I detect any loosening, I'll go back and add it at least to the bottom three nuts.

UFO Pilot:

Thanks for the input regarding the Grade 8 bolts. Hopefully that is the key.

[pokgunner]

Ufo Pilot
"lucky" you. My extended warranty said "we do not cover broken bolts".
Unlucky you in that you are the first I have heard that had a bolt on the front or rear ram fail. That is my fear now. In that since I do not know and Winnebago will not disclose how the rams are to be set, if I have transferred too much weight to the front or rear rams.

LAT LON
I have found a few references to how the rams are to be set to the bottom of the slide.
Mine are now:

Bar "A" "B"

Front 7 ½" 7 5/8"
Mid 7 ½" 7 5/8""
Rear 7 3/8" 7 ½"

With you measurements the adjusting slots where the slide attaches to the rams must be at of very close to their maximum range.

I am more concerned about where the rams are to be attached to the chassis frame, as I think that is why some of us are having this problem. Perhaps this table will help address my concern. All measurements are from the top of the chassis frame (bottom of coach floor) to the top of the bar, which according to section DA-DA on sheet 4 of the attached drawing is to be 85mm (between 3 5/16” and 3 3/8”) and “adjusted as required”.

Bar As first found Currently
Inboard Outboard Inboard Outboard
Front 3” 3 5/8” 3 1/8” 3 1/8”
Middle 3 1/4” (approx.) 2 7/8” 3 1/4” (approx.) 3 1/4”
Rear 3 1/8” 3 1/8” 3 1/4” 3 1/4”

As first found is when I started investigating which was after 3 service techs “fixed” the problem (two of them “fixed” it twice). Since they never discovered the broken bolts I think it is safe to assume that at first found is how it left the factory.

If you study it and assume that both the chassis frame and the slideout are not bowed then you will concluded that the middle ram was holding the most weight. More so if you throw in the location of the refrigerator.

The reason I did not move the Front to 3 1/4” to match the other is if I did then there is not enough room left in the slots where the slide attaches to the bar to make the trim piece match when retracted. This trim piece matching is the one and only adjustment I got out of Winnebago.

The way I have it now everything appears correct: distance between coach wall and slide wall within 1/16” top to bottom, seals appear evenly crushed on both sides and top in both closed and open positions, and slide moves smoothly (perhaps smoother than original).

But thanks to Winnebago I am left wondering if I have indeed adjusted it correctly.

[LAT-LON]

Pokgunner:

BTW...nice bead on your welds. Looks like you've done it before.

[UFO Pilot]

2 bolts on the rear "ram" and 1 on the middle are the ones that broke on mine. I really thought my service contract would deny the claim but I have only had 1 claim denied in 9 1/2 years. The one they denied was the weatherstrip on the slide and I kinda knew they would deny that.

I have found that the way the claim is presented by the shop makes a world of difference in how claims are paid. Just my experience so far.

[LAT-LON]

Pokgunner:

Thanks for sharing the PDF.

I'll have to extend my slide again to take a closer look at the measurements you found. Between those and what I found, I think that we have what we need. I think that since each of these coaches are unique to a point, the slide out room has to be adjusted to fit the hole in the chassis wall, so the measurements for each coach are going to be a little different.

My biggest concern right now is that since the outer mounting bolts for the ram tube snapped, that put all of the load on the inner mounting bolts. Unfortunately they are hidden and we cannot see if they have been compromised. I think that in order to check them, the black water tank would have to be removed and I don't think that is even possible.

[HD4Mark]

Winnebago must have problems like this for a long time and never owned up to it. Our '04 Vectra (now Tour I think) has had problems with the HWH powered large, but not full wall slide. Others with the same vintage coach have also. The slide would sag at the ends and drag on the carpet or tile on the way in or out.

On our model the basement storage compartments are attached to the slide. Good for not banging your head on the slide, bad because no one told us there should be a limit of 300lbs in the compartments.

After many weeks at a former Winnebago dealer they welded in a plate to straighten out the slide and had a custom "shoe" made from stainless steel to have the slide out glide in nicely on the carpet. I did have one bolt break but it was easily accessible.

I'm sorry to see how much trouble you are all having and feel your pain. It does make you want to shop for another brand when looking for a new rig.

[pokgunner]

Lat lon
I would not worry about the inward mounting bolts as they are in compression more often than not. And I would not say it is impossible to get to them, but it would take several days of effort.

I would be, actually am, more worried about the bolts on the front and rear. Because, they held the middle's weight for however many miles you drove it not knowing that the bolts were broken. And for mine since I adjusted my rams so that the front and rear take more of the weight from the middle than they were when they left the factory, that gives me more concern about the front and rear bolts. I will certainly keep an eye on them.

To any other party getting this deep into the thread. Take note that it is not easy to find that these bolts are broken. It takes a strong light and a very good eye to find the crack, as it is in the threads. We foudn them only after the bay doors could not open and that is likely many miles after the bolts failed,

Thanks for the compliment on the weld. I spent about 15 years racing at a local race track. Building those cars gave me lots of practice at welding. Unfortunately that ability is why I likely did not think about your fix. I think your fix is better. Because there may be some future reason why the bracket needs to be adjusted. Also I think that you fix is more likely to fail before it bends that Mickey Mouse plate, which is good thing.

[LAT-LON]

Like I mentioned, only time and miles driven will be the judge on which fix is best. It's a shame that this coach, and those like it, have the problem of supporting the slide. I really like the room that the slide provides.

The tensile strength of a Grade 8 bolt is about 125,000 psi. If these break, I'll swap them out again and sell the coach.

As an aside, I've made quite a few "improvements" to our coach over the years and I'm sure you have made some to yours as well. If you'd like to swap notes, we can share email addresses.

Thanks for all the insight and help.

[LAT-LON]

Pokgunner:

Finally had a conversation with Tom Pilgrim at Winnebago. He's responsible for installation training for PowerGear/Lippert products. During the give and take of the conversation, he described the process the use for installing the slide rooms. Evidently they have pre-set shims that they install to set the height of the room above the rams/support beams. Once the bolts get tightened down the then adjust as necessary to make the slide fit the hole correctly and the seals compress uniformly. That's probably why they couldn't give you the dimension you were looking for.

Anyway, after we got past the "User error" argument of running out the slide before leveling the chassis, the talk was pleasant enough, but there was no admission of fault on Winnebago's side. He had contacted the local dealer and suggested that that I take the coach there for evaluation, but he was a little shocked that I had already made the repair. When asked if this was a common problem, he admitted that he had heard of the snapped bolt issue, but it was not rampant among all coaches. Of course, with guys like you and me out there who just shrug our shoulders and fix the problem ourselves, how do they know or do they care?

Take care and Happy Travels.

[MrsChilerick]

After a thorough check of ours, we cannot see any broken bolts, but it is still sagging. Do you know where the best place to have an adjustment made might be? We aren't able to do this ourselves. Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks

[LAT-LON]

Some sagging in the middle of the slide can be adjusted out at the end plate, but these adjustments are minor and sometimes don't last too long, as you have read from other owners posts in this thread.

Finding a service center that is knowledgeable of the problem and skilled in making any necessary repairs is difficult. I'd contact your coach manufacturer's customer service department and have a conversation with them. They should be able to direct you to an authorized repair center near you.

[Marionberry]

Add me to the broken bolts problem on the full wall slide mid support arm outer bracket. Coach is a 2008 Winnebago Destination, 34,000 miles, Powergear slide components.
The bolts were put in from the top backside and appear to be welded in place, thus not designed to be replaceable. My patch was to use 4 inch C-clamps. Cut the seat down to where it would fit between the bracket and the old bolt head, install with the screw down, tighten to support and adjust the arm. The patch has worked for 2 years full timing.
I got tired of the slide-lock wells leaking into the cabinetry, so I disabled them and sealed the wells in the roof. Now I have manual interior locks and no leaks.
The rear electric motor on the same slide has broken teeth on the drive gear (Winnebago part #161662-01-706) 3 times. Anyone have a way to prevent break the gear?

[pokgunner]

Hello:
I’ve been boon-docking (no internet) for the past ten days. I have a few replies.

Lat-Lon
Yes I have made many “improvements”, well over 10k worth and a few hundred hours. From as trivial as a surge suppresser to as complex as a complete redo of the 12 volt system or major upgrades to the suspension system. I have a long round-to-it list of other improvements I intend to do, in between fixing what brakes. A good trip is those rare times nothing brakes. This last trip the shades for both the driver’s windows and the screen door broke and the arm for the couch is very lose.

There are at least three other insane design issues that I have found and fixed.

- If you have a FRED they ran a 1/0 cable from the batteries in the front (in the Ford Chassis all the batteries are under the stair) right next to the exhaust. Although the exhaust is wrapped, the insulation will still melt away and the wrapping creates a high impedance fault. By the time I fount mine about 3 inches of the cable’s insulation was melted away.

- They installed a sensing transformer for the Power Management System in the wrong location, to “save” about 10 feet of 14 gauge wire. Consequently the Power Management System “worked” incompletely and sporadically.

- The hitch receiver is bolted on, not welded and nothing was used to secure the nuts (Iike a lock, nut, lock tight, or even lock washers. By the time I found mine only 2 of the 6 bolts holding the receiver still had nuts on them and they were several turns loose.

I have debated writing this all down to send to Winnebago, but figure they would not read it. I would love to share with you. But I do not know how to trade email address without the world getting a hold of them.

As for you conversation with Tom Pilgram, it sounds like you got more “cooperation” from Winnebago than I did. But your conversation focused on my least concern. That is I think it is relatively easy to “make the slide fit the hole correctly (if that means even gaps) and the seals compress uniformly”, by adjusting “the height of the room above the rams/support beams”. But I am more worried about the height of the rams/support beams relative to the chassis frame. I think the later dimension is more critical regarding the broken bolts, because the blots likely brake while traveling. If the later demission is set wrong then the place where the slide attaches to the ram could be adjusted to “make the slide fit the hole correctly (if that means even gaps) and the seals compress uniformly”. But doing so could also add a disproportional among of weight to one of the rams.

As for the "User error" issue I think it is not relevant as the bolts likely fail while traveling. But Frankly I do not know which is correct. I tried to find out but came up with 50/50 as to if you should level first or not. I even called 4 different dealers and got a 2 to 2 split! So I leveled firsts until doing so partially ripped out one of the side seals. Since then I have been moving the slides only when the jacks are up. What do you do?

MrsChilerick
I wish I knew how to find a competent service center, if you find out how please share. As for the sagging slide I took it to 4 centers (three times to the selling dealer while under warranty) and none of them found the broken bolts. They just raised the slide on the ends so that the bay doors cleared. That is a band aide fix hence the multiple trips to service centers. I suspect that each center is good at somethings and bad at others, but there is no way to find out which is good at what, that I know of. I also have had the best service from a center that is not “authorized” by Winnebago. The only “problem” I have had with that center is when they needed information from Winnebago and could not get it because they were not authorized.

Marionberry
I am stunned that the C clamp fix has held so long. I am wondering if it might not be the best fix as it could add just enough flex to absorb shocks while traveling. I have long suspected that the plate the bolts are welded to looks Mickey Mouse because it is designed to flex to absorb shocks.

As for the leaking slide lock wells. I fixed mine by opening up the weep holes with a bigger drill bit. You have to be extremely careful that when drilling you do not go through the drain tube. I also use compressed air to clean the weep holes out nearly every time I wash the RV. So far I have had no leaks, except the first one that lead me to do the foregoing. As an aside I asked the dealer what the little covers over the weep holes are for and he did not know. I later asked a service manager at Camping World and he also did not know. That is neither knew that they serve as a drain for the slide lock wells.

So far I have not had any gear teeth brake. My guess is that there is something wrong with the way the motor is attached that is causing you gears to be misaligned,