HWH jacks retract miracle

RKL · 10-24-2013, 12:08 PM

Tested jacks before leaving upstate NY.did not use them until I arrived at my site in Florida and immediately Lowered jacks and then decided to move coach further forward on pad . Hit retract and front passenger and rear driver moves upward 2 inches and stopped . Pryed them up and tried again, no luck. Pryed them again and shut down for the night . Next morning moved coach foward, lowered jacks and tried a retract. All jacks came up fast. Tried. Again,same result. Checked fluid , a little on high side,one ibch from top of resivor.

Does anyone think that the problem was fluid expansion and after cooling over night all was ok. Should I drain some out?
Fluid is at top of upper line on cap when screwed in all the way per hwh tech. Thanks. Rkl

alkillion · 10-24-2013, 02:45 PM

Had similar situation. After I ran them up and down several times they worked fine.
These pistons seem to be real sensative to dust and grit. It gets between the piston and outer sleeve and makes things bind up on retract.
I made it a point to wipe down the pistons before retracting.
Good Luck

jerichorick · 10-24-2013, 06:49 PM

Cleaning the jacks with WD40 and a soft cloth is important. I had a problem with my jacks on my '05 Vectra. Turned out to be a failed "shuttle valve". Also, if the jacks are clean and the shuttle valve is working correctly you could have weak springs. I think HWH has improved them since your coach was built. (I would often have to raise a jack manually until I had the shuttle valve replaced.)

I don't recommend this what I am about to tell you just yet. I bought some CRC Power Lube on Amazon and cleaned my jacks with it. So far so good. I know silicone spray is NOT recommended by HWH. So, let me try this for a while and I will post the results on irv2 when I am convinced I am doing more good than harm.

Ray,IN · 10-24-2013, 09:24 PM

I doubt fluid expansion is an issue. The breather cap/fill opening is also an overflow point, if your tank is over-filled while the jacks are extended, then you raise the jacks, the only thing that will happen is you get to clean up the mess all over the tank and off the ground/pavement. That is, providing someone has not removed the breather cap and replaced it with a pipe plug.

AFChap · 10-25-2013, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Cleaning the jacks with WD40 and a soft cloth is important

WD40 attracts dust ...more likely to cause problems in this case than cure anything. I have 10 years and 85k miles on my HWH jacks and have never touched the rams. Cleaning/lubing the rams should not be necessary ...I never did it on farm equipment either. When a hydraulic ram doesn't move, look for a fluid or valve issue ...or with these sometimes a spring which is not the problem in this instance

wa8yxm · 10-25-2013, 11:08 AM

I see this "WD-40" recommendation from time to time, I also see "The same fluid you top off the jacks with" recommended.

This is what I recommend: READ THE FINE MANUAL.. It will state the PROPER cleaner/lubricant to use. HINT, I have not mentioned it in this post.

azpete · 10-25-2013, 12:30 PM

i dont think fluid expansion would have caused this. your fluid level in the tank was ok at 1 inch below the top. fluid level isnt that critical with hwh systems. you actually have a quart more than it takes to operate the system in the tank. if you are retracting, it would not affect the operation at all.
it may have been that your jacks were having trouble retracting because of overheated solenoids. apparently your system shut down prematurely. severe overheating will do that. cooling down overnight seems to have helped.
does your alarm go off while traveling? weak springs, or borderline solenoid valves will cause this. if you need further assistance, please feel free to call me 602-549-3638

Madrona · 10-25-2013, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

I see this "WD-40" recommendation from time to time, I also see "The same fluid you top off the jacks with" recommended.

This is what I recommend: READ THE FINE MANUAL.. It will state the PROPER cleaner/lubricant to use. HINT, I have not mentioned it in this post.

Why not?

frankdamp · 10-25-2013, 01:14 PM

I guess I'm more fortunate than I realised with my jacking system (don't know the brand without looking and the coach is in its winter dock). As a former airplane hydraulic systems engineer, It hadn't dawned on me that some systems don't have pressure retract and rely on external springs (shows how much I don't notice!).

On my system, there's an external line running to the bottom of the cylinder. In "retract" mode, pressure from the pump goes to the back-side of the piston and retracts the jack.

As I've mentioned in another string, I don't leave my jacks down when stored at home, as we're across the street (on the low-cost side) from homes that are salt-water marina waterfront. The jacking system manufacturer says not to leave them down in close proximity to salt water. When is asked how they defined "close", the reply was "within 60 miles". I doubt we're much over 60 yards away.

When we're camping near salt water, I wrap a garbage bag around the piston rods after they're extended.

jerichorick · 10-26-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AFChap

WD40 attracts dust ...more likely to cause problems in this case than cure anything. I have 10 years and 85k miles on my HWH jacks and have never touched the rams. Cleaning/lubing the rams should not be necessary ...I never did it on farm equipment either. When a hydraulic ram doesn't move, look for a fluid or valve issue ...or with these sometimes a spring which is not the problem in this instance

Not true. HWH recommends this be done from time to time because WD40 dries and leaves no sticky residue as silicone sprays will. Please refer to the latest information on their website. Here is the link: http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml47149.pdf

I hope this helps to clear up any confusion. I had a problem with my jacks coming slow or sticking on my last coach. I had two problems. One was that i was using silicone spray on them and the other was that the shuttle valve was failing and was finally diagnosed and replaced at Forest City.

Sky_Boss · 10-26-2013, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madrona

Why not?

I think the point being made by wa8yxm is folks really need to read manuals. Any site dedicated to supporting others with any device be it mechanical, electrical or whatever has many positives but it also has negatives. The biggest negative is that folks listen to other folks and then think they have the proper answer. Clearly, nothing should be taken as correct unless it is validated by reading instructions/manuals too.

Now, I could be wrong about his intent but...I like my interpretation anyway.

AFChap · 10-26-2013, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Not true. HWH recommends this be done from time to time because WD40 dries and leaves no sticky residue as silicone sprays will. Please refer to the latest information on their website. Here is the link: http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml47149.pdf

I hope this helps to clear up any confusion. I had a problem with my jacks coming slow or sticking on my last coach. I had two problems. One was that i was using silicone spray on them and the other was that the shuttle valve was failing and was finally diagnosed and replaced at Forest City.

Read that article carefully to be SURE there is no confusion ...it begins by saying that lubrication of the shafts is normaly neither necessary nor desired. It refers to WD40 as a cleaner to use IF the shafts have been crudded up by silicone or other substances. (don't crud them up and you won't need WD40!) And when it mentions WD40 for cleaning, it also says you should follow by wiping the shafts with a clean, soft cloth. if you don't wipe them down very well, the WD40 WILL attract dust/dirt. WD40 is primarily a cleaner/de-gunker. If a lube is needed, ...and it is NOT ... it would be added after the cleaner/degunker is wiped off.

azpete · 10-26-2013, 10:25 AM

there is nothing better than a owners manual unless its a service manual. both have valuable information that allows an owner to make a good decision.
in almost all of my replies to questions, the first thing i ask is if the owner has a service manual. its almost impossible to discuss a problem if both parties dont have the same information.
as far as the wd40 question, read the manual first, then do what you want. its your jacks, so do as you wish.

jerichorick · 10-27-2013, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azpete

there is nothing better than a owners manual unless its a service manual. both have valuable information that allows an owner to make a good decision.
in almost all of my replies to questions, the first thing i ask is if the owner has a service manual. its almost impossible to discuss a problem if both parties dont have the same information.
as far as the wd40 question, read the manual first, then do what you want. its your jacks, so do as you wish.

Now, who can argue with this advice? Only a fool. I have seen many 'opinions' fall flat on their face when measured against facts.

One of the problems I have read in this forum about jacks is failure because of a slight bend to the ram. I wonder if the manufacture installed under rated jacks for the weight application?

My jacks on this coach have a slight leak. The landing pad is a bit moist on top but no puddling. I have cleaned the rams with the WD40 and, this last time, sprayed them with the CRC Power Lube. So far so good. My slides ride on Power Gear and I have sprayed the power lube on the rack and pinion gears and rollers. This is recommended by Power Gear. Once again, so far so good.

My patio awning sounded like a cat fight when it was opened or closed. I sprayed the track and moving parts down with the CRC and the cats are gone! This seems to be great stuff.

And I thank irv2 for introducing me to it.

palehorse89 · 10-27-2013, 08:47 AM

My Father has owned a excavating business for over 50 years with equipment working in the dirt and dust and I have never seen him wipe any of the cylinders down on any of his equipment and I have never seen anyone that owns any type of equipment with hydraulic cylinders wipe them down. Most all hyd. cylinders have wipers before the seals. Maybe this procedure is unique to just some RV owners? Again......... to each their own and if it works........

Madrona · 10-27-2013, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sky_Boss

I think the point being made by wa8yxm is folks really need to read manuals. Any site dedicated to supporting others with any device be it mechanical, electrical or whatever has many positives but it also has negatives. The biggest negative is that folks listen to other folks and then think they have the proper answer. Clearly, nothing should be taken as correct unless it is validated by reading instructions/manuals too.

Now, I could be wrong about his intent but...I like my interpretation anyway.

Yours is a good interpretation. Not everyone has a manual, not everyone can understand what the manual is saying when using technical terms. It's why forums like this exist, to get the real world experience of users that may have had the same issue. I agree that you shouldn't read one answer and assume that it is accurate. But when you have several seasoned veterans giving the same answer, over and over, it's probably correct.

"Read the manual" is akin, in my mind, to "google it." We are all here to help and be helped. Reading the manual and googling for answers is certainly helpful, but coming here is at least as helpful, at least most of the time.

I've just received excellent help here on a question I asked just a few days ago. A $600 repair bill was turned into a $25 dollar part and 10 minutes with a Phillips screwdriver. Accessing the repair manual was part of my research and I suppose the answer was there with a little filtering and deduction, but it was no where near as clear as the answer I found on this forum. I'm grateful.

jerichorick · 10-28-2013, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palehorse89

My Father has owned a excavating business for over 50 years with equipment working in the dirt and dust and I have never seen him wipe any of the cylinders down on any of his equipment and I have never seen anyone that owns any type of equipment with hydraulic cylinders wipe them down. Most all hyd. cylinders have wipers before the seals. Maybe this procedure is unique to just some RV owners? Again......... to each their own and if it works........

Construction equipment hydraulics are set up to pull and push the ram under high psi pressure. Most of our RV jacks are high psi down and spring retract. Dirt is a problem when packed in the wiper seal. Cleaning the ram with a soft cloth to avoid scratches and WD40 or soap and water is the practice recommended by HWH. The new replacement springs for these jacks are of a heavier gauge wire and pull harder on the retracting jack, which helps some.

palehorse89 · 10-28-2013, 06:19 PM

Hydraulic cylinders are all the same and yes equipment has pressure both ways and HWH jacks are pressure down and spring return, but as far as dirt "packed" into the wiper seal.........on a motorhome,,,,,,,, I am not sure where you use your RV and what conditions you use your jacks in but to get dirt packed in the seals off your clyinders?........I do not have that problem, and heavy equipment does have that problem that you described with no leaks or cylinder wipe downs. As always......what ever works for ya....

"007" · 10-28-2013, 06:33 PM

HWH MANUALS for most coach's.

Found in QT's 1 & 2.

jerichorick · 10-29-2013, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by palehorse89

Hydraulic cylinders are all the same and yes equipment has pressure both ways and HWH jacks are pressure down and spring return, but as far as dirt "packed" into the wiper seal.........on a motorhome,,,,,,,, I am not sure where you use your RV and what conditions you use your jacks in but to get dirt packed in the seals off your clyinders?........I do not have that problem, and heavy equipment does have that problem that you described with no leaks or cylinder wipe downs. As always......what ever works for ya....

Palehorse89, I am not trying to argue with you. Life is just too short. I have been at full time RVing long, enough and talked with enough folks about jack problems, to know what is going on with RVs.

When it rains and the cylinders get damp. Dust and grit collect on them. Each time the jacks come up without pre cleaning the foreign materials on the rams gets pulled up into the recess under the seals. After a time this starts to add friction to the retracting cylinder and slows or stops it from retracting, overwhelming the spring force. One jack may be more sensitive or get more dirt quicker than the others in the set and have problems sooner.

This may be a poor design but it is what we have to live with. It is a way for RV manufactures to keep cost down and has been the industry standard for a very long time.

Please accept my explanation graciously. It is not easy to present the facts in a warm and fuzzy way on a keyboard and in a quick to the point manner.

Happy trails,
Rick