Kwikee level best 300 jacks

retriever1 · 11-29-2013, 07:54 PM

I am having trouble with my kwikee level best 300 jacks on my 2007 itasca sunrise.
The right front jack would go down when you would push the all up button on the touch pad.
I took it to the dealer for repairs.
Between the dealer Tec. and the kwikee Tec. they determined the problem was with the touch pad.
When the dealer tryed to order a new touch pad,Kwikee would not sell him one because they were on an Engineering hold.
The dealer checked Winnebago stock,and the had several touch pads in stock,so he ordered one. When the touch pad arrived and was installed it did not correct the problem. I guess the ones Winnebago has in stock are defective also.
I contacted the Winnebago service department,and was told the knew nothing about the touch pads being on an engineering hold. It is a sad day when a Person a lot of money on a coach and gets that kind of responce from the manufacturer.
Kwikee has been producing these jacks for 7+ years,and are only now realising there is a problem with the touch pad come on.
I very diasppointed in Winnebagos lack of interest in my problem,I got the impression they just wanted me to go away. this is my third winnebago coach,when I buy another couch I will remember this experiance.

94-Newmar · 11-30-2013, 05:48 AM

LevelBest 3000 series? One leveler going in the opposite direction when all the others are is certainly not a touchpad issue. I suggest they look at the solenoid/valve for that leveler at the manifold.

Wayne M · 11-30-2013, 07:53 AM

x2 on your experience

x2 on solenoid valve (or wiring)

retriever1 · 11-30-2013, 08:14 AM

I left out, that the jacks will work properly when you use the emergency retract jumper supplied with the jacks.
I also supected the valved at first,until I tryed the jumper, which bypasses the touch pad.

94-Newmar · 12-01-2013, 04:48 AM

Retriever1, As you mention above, the tech at the dealership did try another touch pad from Winny stock and it did the same thing. If that were the case then your unit would have been doing this since day 1, likewise there would be 1000s of other doing the same thing.

Some things here aren't making any sense.

You mention that upon hit "retract" the right front goes down instead of up.

Was this with the levelers already up?
Was this with the cylinder all 1/2 up?
Was this with the levelers already down and you tried to retact and just that one cylinder was not retracting and continuing to try to run down instead of up?

Did you try running the levelers down multiple times and did it continue to run that one leveler in the wrong direction upon retract each time? If so, using the jumper harness did it always retract that cylinder properly each time?

I'm sorry.. I just cannot see how the touch pad is the problem at this point. This is a pure mechanical issue at the manifold and solenoid in some fashion. The Kwikee system uses 8 individual solenoids (2 for each cylinder, 1 for extend, 1 for retract). They use a true double-acting cylinder, not a regenerative cylinder. By this I mean there are two hydraulic lines to each cylinder to reverse fluid flow for extend/retract. The pump does not reverse as in some systems, instead it uses a 4 way valve to shift fluid direction. In otherwords, the fluid is always running the same direction thru the pump - it's up to the 4 way valve to "shift" the fluid flow to the opposite side of the manifold (retract), and for each cylinders solenoid valve to close on the opposite side. When extending, all the retract solenoids/valves close and the extend solenoids open. Opposite for retract.

Their are only 2 ways mechanically possible that 1 cylinder is going to run in the opposite direction in this type of setup:

(1) Its hooked up hydraulically backwards (which it's most likely not since they've worked properly before. I'd expect this mistake on a brand new installation)

(2) The opposing valve coil (either extend or retract) for that same leveler has failed in some manner. Whether it has debris in the seal causing fluid to leak by it, or electrically the solenoid is weak not allowing it to seal properly, or improper voltage to the coil preventing it from holding seal.

My suggestion is to remove both solenoids/valves for the right front and swap them with the left. If the behavior moves to the left, then your problem is with either or both solenoids/valves. If the behavior continues then there is a problem with the manifold - most likely a blockage or debris in the ports.

retriever1 · 12-01-2013, 08:29 AM

Thanks for your reply Newmar

It dose not matter what position the jacks are in,when you hit the all up button, the right front jack will go down.
If you install the emergency retract jumper the will all go up normal.
If my understanding is correct all the emergency retract jumper does is bypass the key pad. Since the jacks work normally with the jumper,wouldnt this eleminate problems with the hydraulic system.
I have operated the jacks many times and the only way I can get the rt. front jack to come up is to use the jumper.

94-Newmar · 12-01-2013, 08:36 AM

The emergency retract jumper simply bypasses the control board.. yes. However the tech has tried a different control board and the same thing happens.. right? The only thing left as mentioned above is to swap the solenoids/valves from right to left and see if the problem follows the solenoids/valves or stays on the right front. IF it stays on the right front then it is either a wiring problem to the solenoid/valve or something obstructing a passage in the manifold. If it moves to the left then it's a problem with the solenoid/valve. It is entirely possible that the wiring has been damaged and will operate ok thru the jumper but not the control board. The control board adds an extra layer of "draw" on the 12VDC system - and if there is a wire chafed or damaged OR some sort of debris in the manifold passages that may be all it takes to cause the valve to hang slightly allowing fluid to flow from the opposite direction thus causing it to go down when it should be going up.

retriever1 · 12-01-2013, 09:22 AM

Thanks Newmar
I will try swapping the left solenoid valve with the right and see what happens.
The coach is at the dealer not, so it will be tomorrow before I will be able to do this.
I will let you know what happens.
Thanks again for your help.

retriever1 · 12-02-2013, 01:04 PM

Newmar
I picked up my coach from the dealer this morning,and I swapped the solenoid leads from the rt to the lf (both extend and retract solenoids,this was easier than swapping the solenoid valves) when I did this the problem moved from the rf jacks to the lf jacks.
If by pea brain is working at all this should eleminate a problem with the solenoids? What should I check next?

94-Newmar · 12-03-2013, 04:22 AM

Interesting. Yes you are correct.. you have eliminated the Solenoids/Valves as being the problem.

Since the tech at the dealership did try another touch pad from Winny stock and it still did the same thing; you eliminated the solenoid/valve problem; the only thing left that is the same is the wiring harness. How hard would it be for you to run a seperate set of wires for just the right front?

retriever1 · 12-03-2013, 06:55 AM

It is raining Cats & dogs right now,when it stops I will do some more investigating.
Just another thought,wouldn`t the fact that the jacks are working properly with the jumper eliminate a wiring problem between the touch pad and solenoids?
It shouldn`t be to hard to run a wire from the touch pad to the RT front solenoid. I will also get some good voltage reading at the RT front solenoid when I push the retract button.

94-Newmar · 12-03-2013, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retriever1

Just another thought,wouldn`t the fact that the jacks are working properly with the jumper eliminate a wiring problem between the touch pad and solenoids?

The same could be asked as to why it suddenly started doing this.. and even more odd that a completely different new touchpad does the same thing. What would have suddenly caused this to happen on yours AND happen with a new touchpad? The only thing the same is the harness. Having fun yet?

Keep us posted!

retriever1 · 12-04-2013, 02:30 PM

I don`t know about having fun,but these jacks are checking my since of humor.
Here is where I am know.
1: disconnected the RT front solenoid wire and applied 12v to the solenoid,when I did this I could the solenoid click.
RESULTS: Jacks still extended when the retract button was pushed.

2: Disconnected both the extend and the retract solenoids:
RESULTS: The RT front jacks still extended when the retract button was pushed, now that has me picking my nose and scratching my butt.

Regardless what I do the only was I can get the RT front jack to retract is to usr the retract jumper.

I was starting to suspect the wiring harness,until I put 12v streight to the solenoid and it still went the wring way.

94-Newmar · 12-05-2013, 02:43 AM

Hrm.. I'm going to look around at the inventory on our lots today and try to find one of these to get my hands on it. I'm missing something in our conversation.. or thinking of the wrong system you've got.. I'll let you know if I find one of these today! :-)

ROMAD · 12-17-2013, 11:11 PM

Any luck resolving the issue?

retriever1 · 02-15-2014, 07:33 AM

The problem has been a long time solving,I will try to explain it.
The major problem was the pump, it was sent to a pump co. located in Michigan to be rebuilt(Kwikee wanted $3800 for a new pump assembly).
The rebuilder found that the screen in the pump was stopped up with some type of foreign particles, as well as 2 defective valves.
As it turns out the foreign particles were from deteriorating seals in the Jacks.
The pump co. rebuilt the pump, and replaced the defective valves.
I am now waiting for the jacks to be rebuilt,hopefully this will resolve my jack problems.
As a side note Power gear is a pain in the butt to work with,they will not communicate with you,they have very poor customer relations.Winnebago might want to look at them a little closer.

Wayne M · 02-15-2014, 07:40 AM

Retriever,
What was the name of the company in Michigan. It would be nice to know for any future problems. What did they quote om the final cost, if you don't mind.

Thanks.

Yellowboat · 02-15-2014, 09:28 PM

I recently had problems with my Kwikee Level Best 3000 system. I couldn't get power to my touch pad. I had an RV Tech come out and check my system. He couldn't find anything wrong and said that he would call Kwikee to discuss the issues. That night I discovered that the ribbon connector on my touch pad had an open circuit. I could get my system to power up if I moved the touch pad around till the wires made a connection.

I tried to order the part online from Winnebago Parts and they told me the touch pad/circuit board were on engineering hold.

I also found out that Kwikee was purchased by Power Gear. I e-mailed Power Gear and they kept me up to date on their progress. A few days after Power Gear told me that the new parts were in test I e-mailed Winnebago Parts and they said they now had parts available.

My new parts arrived a few days ago and my jacks are now working.

Safe travels.

JD