Love the Winnebago, Freightliner chassis...not so much!

[Texas TC]

While traveling through New Mexico this morning, I got a call from Mike Cody. He wanted to discuss my posts. Now that is great personalized service. We discussed the faulty fuel gauge, second mode that is not operating on the Allison, and, of course, my handling issues. As mentioned before, I am going to be at Camp Freightliner with him next Wednesday in Spring, TX and we will continue our conversation.

I am very pleased that he took time to inquire about my issues. It makes me feel maybe there is actually a "fix" for my handling issues.

As an aside, I drove 620 miles today from Phoenix to Tucumcari NM and fought crosswinds about half of the trip. It sure takes some of the fun out of driving. With my previous coach, as I told Mike, I enjoyed the driving as much as camping. I am looking forward to being able to say the same thing about this coach.

[Pusherman]

Originally Posted by bachler

In my experiances. Owning 7 motorhomes, The present being a Freightliner with a 330 Cat;. I run the 295 x 22.5 at 100 lbs. If WE load it properly and have a full tank of fuel it handles/drives Better then any cars I have ever driven/owned, Including our present new car and truck Both American made; Keep the tire pressure what is stated on the sidewalls of the tires. Not the coach/car/truck spec. They rate the tire pressure for the best ride.

Tire manufacturers do not rate the tire pressure on the sidewall for the best ride, they rate it for maximum weight carrying capacity.

[bachler]

I must ask you all.. If you were the tire manufacture of the tires and you state a pressure on the side wall; This is for maximum weight; Also it MUST be pumped up to keep it form Overheating. That is a problem that comes from a low tire pressure; Remember when The Ford pinto aws advertized as A cheap car With Exploding gas tanks and salf discenagrating tires. Well i had one The tire problem Never affected me Because I ran the tires at the Manufacturing Rateing ; NOT the car manufactures Pressure . Because the IDIOTS in Detroit Couldn't design decent springs for the ride; Moveing Forward To the Ford Explorer The IDIOTS went and done the same thing. Lowered the tire pressure From the tire Manufactures Specs;; Well woulden't you know it More Tire Failer.. Akso the lower pressure Makes the tire run hotter, A Propperly In flated tire WILL NOT run hot, Very seldom above 120 degrees. So you can lay your hand on it ;; It will be warm. If it gets any hotter then that , Failer will come ,,,SOON;; I know some will dissagree thats fine. I could print a complete book on tires. Some say race cars Run 8 to 12 lbsPressure yes they also use nitetrogen in the tires And Maybe run a tottel of 50 miles. before they change..I want a bit more mileage out of my tires.. These are only my 70+ years experiances,With tires Construction/racing/trucking/rack of BS;

[offthewall]

Originally Posted by bachler

I must ask you all.. If you were the tire manufacture of the tires and you state a pressure on the side wall; This is for maximum weight; Also it MUST be pumped up to keep it form Overheating. That is a problem that comes from a low tire pressure; Remember when The Ford pinto aws advertized as A cheap car With Exploding gas tanks and salf discenagrating tires. Well i had one The tire problem Never affected me Because I ran the tires at the Manufacturing Rateing ; NOT the car manufactures Pressure . Because the IDIOTS in Detroit Couldn't design decent springs for the ride; Moveing Forward To the Ford Explorer The IDIOTS went and done the same thing. Lowered the tire pressure From the tire Manufactures Specs;; Well woulden't you know it More Tire Failer.. Akso the lower pressure Makes the tire run hotter, A Propperly In flated tire WILL NOT run hot, Very seldom above 120 degrees. So you can lay your hand on it ;; It will be warm. If it gets any hotter then that , Failer will come ,,,SOON;; I know some will dissagree thats fine. I could print a complete book on tires. Some say race cars Run 8 to 12 lbsPressure yes they also use nitetrogen in the tires And Maybe run a tottel of 50 miles. before they change..I want a bit more mileage out of my tires.. These are only my 70+ years experiances,With tires Construction/racing/trucking/rack of BS;

The problem with running at the stated sidewall pressure is that you will not have the optimum contact patch, decreasing traction. You will also most likely have handling issues since the tires are too hard and will 'bounce' more, resulting in even less traction.

You should not run at the sidewall pressure. You should not run at the door sticker pressure. You should get weighed, consult the tire manufacturer's chart and adjust pressures to match your weight. I usually add 10 psi as a safety factor.

Unless you happen to be at the maximum weight the tires are designed to carry, you have too much pressure in your tires. It's a matter of having the tire perform as it was designed.

[Elkhartjim]

If its not too much to ask, can we not turn this into a "how much air pressure" thread. The OP has some handling issues and yes tire pressure can be a cause but lets give Mike Cody an opportunity to resolve the issues without several pages of tire inflation rhetoric.

Thanks.

[bachler]

Altho I respect all posters; The tire pressure is directly Related to the handeling of the coach. And also it's fuel mileage. I have driven in roads with such a seavier side winds that w Car passed us got cought in the side wind when it tryed to pull in front of us It went in the ditch Rolled over. Thats another story. With the pressure being posted so many times . Maybe just maybe It does have some relavence;;; OR we can just fight it;; Life is good

[offthewall]

Originally Posted by Elkhartjim

If its not too much to ask, can we not turn this into a "how much air pressure" thread. The OP has some handling issues and yes tire pressure can be a cause but lets give Mike Cody an opportunity to resolve the issues without several pages of tire inflation rhetoric.

Thanks.

It doesn't make sense to ignore what may actually be the problem - incorrect tire pressure.

[Elkhartjim]

Originally Posted by offthewall

It doesn't make sense to ignore what may actually be the problem - incorrect tire pressure.

You are absolutely, positively right. There are hundreds and hundreds of posts on what "correct air pressure is" and some of them aren't necessarily correct. There seems to be three schools of thought on how to determine the correct air pressure:
1. Run tires at pressure stated on tire sidewall.
2. Run tires at pressure stated by the coach manufacturer.
3. Weigh the coach and run pressure according to the tire manufacturers size and weight tables.

I personally believe number three is correct but now I've started just what I was trying to prevent.

[offthewall]

Originally Posted by Elkhartjim

You are absolutely, positively right. There are hundreds and hundreds of posts on what "correct air pressure is" and some of them aren't necessarily correct. There seems to be three schools of thought on how to determine the correct air pressure:
1. Run tires at pressure stated on tire sidewall.
2. Run tires at pressure stated by the coach manufacturer.
3. Weigh the coach and run pressure according to the tire manufacturers size and weight tables.

I personally believe number three is correct but now I've started just what I was trying to prevent.

Agreed on #3

#1 is NEVER correct.
#2 is only correct if you are at the maximum load and completely balanced.
#3 is always correct.

[Texas TC]

Way back at the first of this thread, I posted that I had weighed the coach and put the appropriate amount of air in the tires as recommended by Michelin. I agree that proper inflation, according to the tire manufacturer is the way to go. Having said that, I still am having handling issues and look forward to discussing those issues with Mike Cody next week.

I, too, wondered how my original posting had turned into a tire inflation seminar. I guess when threads get several pages long, they can go off on tangents.

I do appreciate all the comments that have been offered. I am still open to motion control units if Freighliner cannot come up with a good solution for the chassis as it sits.

I had the coach weighed full of fuel and water, and, this morning, I had it weighed without water and only 25 gallons of diesel in the tank. I wanted Mike to see what the variables are when trying to get 80% of 10410# on the front axle. I have not found a way to do that, full or empty yet without adding ballast but am open to his suggestions.

[offthewall]

Originally Posted by Texas TC

...
I, too, wondered how my original posting had turned into a tire inflation seminar. I guess when threads get several pages long, they can go off on tangents.

....

That's usually when I learn the most - when threads go off on a somewhat related tangent.

Your specific issue spawns a greater discussion on the subject matter and lots of knowledge, opinions and just plain wrong-headed stuff goes flying by.

Fun stuff

[offthewall]

Originally Posted by Texas TC

... I wanted Mike to see what the variables are when trying to get 80% of 10410# on the front axle. I have not found a way to do that, full or empty yet without adding ballast but am open to his suggestions.

Have my wife pack for you

[bachler]

When I was driving Truck pulling a 70000 lb load one way ; And maybe 30000 the other way . Do any you think I acutally went out and checked my tires For the correct pressure to load ratio;; COME ON;;; You pump them up to the sidewall rating and go. After 100000 or so miles you replace them.. You don't fiddle around with the air pressure amen Life is good ;; along with A bit of common scence''';;;

[offthewall]

Originally Posted by bachler

When I was driving Truck pulling a 70000 lb load one way ; And maybe 30000 the other way . Do any you think I acutally went out and checked my tires For the correct pressure to load ratio;; COME ON;;; You pump them up to the sidewall rating and go. After 100000 or so miles you replace them.. You don't fiddle around with the air pressure amen Life is good ;; along with A bit of common scence''';;;

Your steer axle of your tractor was not varying with the weight difference of the trailer load. The air pressure of the trailer tires wouldn't be felt as a handling issue. A Class A RV is a very different thing than a semi.

[gknott]

We've had rut following and wind issues on two different M/Hs. Found that the toe-in had to be increased from what the specs were. Both units drove perfect after and no uneven tire wear was experienced over several thousand miles. Worked for us and also a couple other people we talked to over the years. An easy and inexpensive fix to try anyway. Gerald

[RickO]

Originally Posted by offthewall

Your steer axle of your tractor was not varying with the weight difference of the trailer load. The air pressure of the trailer tires wouldn't be felt as a handling issue. A Class A RV is a very different thing than a semi.

X2

It might be comparable if there were only 10 wheels and all 70,000 lbs were riding between you and the bed but otherwise is apples to oranges.

Rick

[Elkhartjim]

I'm disappointed! Where are those that believe the tire pressure should be set by the coach manufacturers plaque?

[cjshaker]

Originally Posted by Elkhartjim

I'm disappointed! Where are those that believe the tire pressure should be set by the coach manufacturers plaque?

After watching the SUV tire blowout fiasco due to tire pressures too low several years ago, I do not trust vehicle manufacturers to do the right thing.

Chris Shaker

[Elkhartjim]

Originally Posted by Texas TC

Having said that, I still am having handling issues and look forward to discussing those issues with Mike Cody next week.

What did Mike say? Thanks.

[Texas TC]

Mike was great and spent an enormous amount of class time on weight distribution and tire pressures. On the morning following the class, we got to spend some one on one time. He had brought me replacements for my faulty fuel gauge and transmission shifter pad. I installed them and he came over to pick up the bad parts that I had taken off.

After our talk, I did lower my tire pressures, front and rear, another five pounds cold. I had previously weighed the coach full and empty and had lowered to pressures prior to my first trip. I had already moved all the weight forward that I have to move. We talked about adding some ballast to get more weight on the front axle. Full, I can only get 78% of axle capacity on the front axle and without water and only a quarter tank of fuel, my weight to axle is only 74%. Those who have taken the class know that FCC wants you to have 80-85% weight capacity on the front axle for the best handling. I also checked the ride height, at his request, and it was within specifications And, he suggested I try a Safe T Plus.

There was no magic here and I am still somewhat concerned about the handling of my coach.

My game plan is as follows:

Add the Safe T Plus- If that improves the handling, I will be very pleased and finished.

Add ballast- I can try temporary ballast by adding sand bags to the front basement compartments to get more weight on the front axle. If that works, I can look at a more permanent solution by adding some weight to the frame rails at the front of the chassis.

Surely, one of these solutions will get me the results I am wanting. However, I heard in class that my class A is going to be more difficult to drive in crosswinds than I was accustomed to in my class 6 Super C truck chassis even though my class A is heavier than the Super C I owned. That concerns me.

I have promised to keep Mike Cody informed as my search for a solution continues. He is a great instructor and a super individual.