My 2009 Itasca Navion iQ does not start.

[MyGplante]

I have a Sprinter 3500 2008 CDI 3.0 (W906) (Itasca Navion iQ) and it does not start. When I put the key in, I hear the steering wheel unlocks, when I turn the key in the ignition, the dashboard lights come on, but when I turn the key all the way to start, nothing happens. No click or no noise! Searching on the Web, one hypothesis would be the "starter relay" in the fuse panel on the left of the dashboard. The part would be in position R5 (terminal 50) and the number is “Yellow Relay - A0009828123 (906) Starter Relay”. So, this morning, I've replaced the starter relay (A0009828123) with confidence and now I hear a little click from the new relay but nothing else. No noise from the starter! It does not want to start, even my new starter relay replacement. Does anyone have an idea or a solution? Thank you.

[Eagle5]

Hi MyGplante,
I would check two things before proceeding further:

1. What is your engine starting battery voltage?
2. Get a error code readout from the engine controller

Thanks, Eagle5

[MyGplante]

Originally Posted by Eagle5

Hi MyGplante,
I would check two things before proceeding further:

1. What is your engine starting battery voltage?
2. Get a error code readout from the engine controller

Thanks, Eagle5

- About 13.2 volts (new AGM)
- No error code

[Morich]

The newer cars have moved well beyond what I've been able to keep up with on electronics and engine. Without the really good equipment and knowing what is there, I'm not in this game at all beyond the basics.
If wanting to DIY, there are a few things that might be worth checking.
As mentioned making sure the battery is good but also make sure that power is able to get to the starter as dirty cables is still a major problem.
I've not looked in a long time but I'm sure there are control wires ona starter solenoid.
Those make the solenoid close to crank the engine but it will not show there until several other items of unknown names/purposes are right!
If young, agile and ambitios, I might crawl under and check that power is getting to the battery on the big cables and thenif that is right, check for power arriving on the smaller control wiring to tell the solenoid to close.

If no power on the big cables, I would think looking along the route from the battery might find a problem.
But if it is the control wiring not getting power, that is apt to be a minefield of things like key signals, theft protection and things I have no idea on what nor where to find them.

Possibly a book on the specific brand/model would give that indepth info but that is a whole different realm of unknowns for me!

[MyGplante]

Originally Posted by Morich

The newer cars have moved well beyond what I've been able to keep up with on electronics and engine. Without the really good equipment and knowing what is there, I'm not in this game at all beyond the basics.
If wanting to DIY, there are a few things that might be worth checking.
As mentioned making sure the battery is good but also make sure that power is able to get to the starter as dirty cables is still a major problem.
I've not looked in a long time but I'm sure there are control wires ona starter solenoid.
Those make the solenoid close to crank the engine but it will not show there until several other items of unknown names/purposes are right!
If young, agile and ambitios, I might crawl under and check that power is getting to the battery on the big cables and thenif that is right, check for power arriving on the smaller control wiring to tell the solenoid to close.

If no power on the big cables, I would think looking along the route from the battery might find a problem.
But if it is the control wiring not getting power, that is apt to be a minefield of things like key signals, theft protection and things I have no idea on what nor where to find them.

Possibly a book on the specific brand/model would give that indepth info but that is a whole different realm of unknowns for me!

Inside the RV, my battery is a new AGM 990A, fully charged, and I've also checked the safety devices: steering wheel and dashboard. On this side, the steering wheel unlocks, the dashboard lights come on and my new starter relay that I've just replaced makes a little click, it works.

I'll go under the vehicle now and take some current readings as you suggest. Thank you.

[Eagle5]

Good morning MyGplante,
I agree with Richard above; check the wires going to the starter itself. Make sure that the connections look clean and tight and that you have good voltage up to the starter's solenoid.
Because you get an audible <click> from the starter relay, it would seem that your computer is agreeing to start the engine, but the starter is faulty.
I would replace the starter as the next step.
Good luck; Eagle5

[Morich]

Can we assume this is a vehicle with the solenoid built as part of the starter, making a simple solenoid change not an option?
I might guess yes to that question but I have no real info on that.

But my thought is that there are some details that might go worng that might let us avoid changing the starter. One idea to keep in mind is that the small wires to the solenoid work much like any other solenoid. They have to get battery and ground down to the solenoid. That power will then move the contacts inside the solenoid.
Much like the mode solenoid we talk about so much?

Before jumping to change the whole starter, I would want to verify that power is gettting to the small wires and clean lugs on the solenoid. So two points to check at the starter solenoid. One is really common and we may find dirty cables keeping good 12VDC power reaching the big lug on the starter solenoid.
But the small wires are also critical as they act to tell the solenoid to close. That signal doesn't get to the solenoid until AFTER it has gone through all the logic of the ignition, but we do need to see it actually gets to the lug on the solenoid.
If we can get that signal, we often will be able to hear or feel the starter solenoid move!

One semi-quick way to make sure the power is getting to the starter solenoid and good enough to crank is to short across the big lugs on the solenoid. It will likely do some arcing and look scary and we also have to keep away from any engine parts that may move but if we are getting good power down that far, shorting the big lugs together should put power on to the starter motor by bypassing the solenoid contacts!
If you are putting 12+ volts directly on the wire going to the starter motor and it doesn't crank THEN you almost certainly have a bad starter!

[Our ride]

Possible neutral safety switch.Not fully in park.Move gear shift back in forth.Try starting with shift lever in neutral.Hold shift lever in park while trying to start.

[MyGplante]

Originally Posted by Morich

Can we assume this is a vehicle with the solenoid built as part of the starter, making a simple solenoid change not an option?
I might guess yes to that question but I have no real info on that.

But my thought is that there are some details that might go worng that might let us avoid changing the starter. One idea to keep in mind is that the small wires to the solenoid work much like any other solenoid. They have to get battery and ground down to the solenoid. That power will then move the contacts inside the solenoid.
Much like the mode solenoid we talk about so much?

Before jumping to change the whole starter, I would want to verify that power is gettting to the small wires and clean lugs on the solenoid. So two points to check at the starter solenoid. One is really common and we may find dirty cables keeping good 12VDC power reaching the big lug on the starter solenoid.
But the small wires are also critical as they act to tell the solenoid to close. That signal doesn't get to the solenoid until AFTER it has gone through all the logic of the ignition, but we do need to see it actually gets to the lug on the solenoid.
If we can get that signal, we often will be able to hear or feel the starter solenoid move!

One semi-quick way to make sure the power is getting to the starter solenoid and good enough to crank is to short across the big lugs on the solenoid. It will likely do some arcing and look scary and we also have to keep away from any engine parts that may move but if we are getting good power down that far, shorting the big lugs together should put power on to the starter motor by bypassing the solenoid contacts!
If you are putting 12+ volts directly on the wire going to the starter motor and it doesn't crank THEN you almost certainly have a bad starter!

Well, I went to take readings on the starter solenoid. It's receiving around 12.60 volts. While my wife was putting the key in the ignition, starting the RV, the voltage didn't change, no voltage drop following the start request. So, it receives more than 12.5 volts, but nothing moves or makes any noise. It seems to be a faulty starter?

[Morich]

Okay, I got a drawing and would like to make sure we are saying the same and not create confusion!
I found this picture of a common starter type for your RV. It may not look quite the same but should have the same parts and connections.

The big black thing at right is the starter motor that turns to crank the engine to start. There is often a braided brass looking "wire" to the solenoid, the shiny thing on left!
I think you are saying you get 12+ volts on the left lug that has a battery cable on it! That says you have good battery there wating to connect through the contacts inside the solenoid and go tothe motor!

What we need to see is the power from the rest of the car part like key and all the little gizmos to make it do what newer cars do! Things like transmission right and too many for me to know!

When somebody turns the key, you should see that smaller lug and wire get power! If all is right with the starter that power goes through a coil inside the solenoid and pulls the solenoid contacts together to pass the power from the battery cable on through to the mesh to the motor to turn!

Two ways to do some checking.
One way is to connect the 12Volts on the big lug to the small lug for just a test to make sure the starter turns.
Carefull that all moving parts like fan and belts, etc are clear and car is not in gear before doing this! You are wiring around any kind of safety and the engine and car may jump when the engine tries to start if it it is in gear!

But if you are looking at the small lug with a meter, it should not show any voltage until somebody turns the key! Then when they are trying to start the engine 12volts should show up on that small lug. That power should close the contacts and the engine crank!

Your choice which to do ? Look for voltage on the small lug when key is turned or put it there by shorting the 12volts on the battery cable to the small lug!
This is like a wall switch only instead of us flipping the switch, we send power down to move the contacts!

It spounds like you are getting the power to this "switch" (solenoid) but it is not getting on to the right lug where the motor is.
Ids it because the signal is not getting from the key and ignition parts dow to the small lug?
Or is that part getting power down to the solenoid but it is not passing it on to the motor?
There could be lots of stuff like transmission interlocks, park brakes or lots of stuff but if the signal is getting down there on the small wire, the contacts should be passing it on to turn the motor!

Careful not to make the vehicle jump and run over you!

I grew up around farm machinery and know it can be dangerous!

[bigb]

FWIW there was a TSB issued for the starter relay fuse back in 2013. Some came with a 20 amp which should be replaced with a 25 amp. The change was made as of 3/09/2012 production, well after your 2008 was made.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...62615-2280.pdf

In reading your post again I see that the starter relay is clicking, so your fuse is likely OK. Next would be the notorious "Y" cable that runs from the alternator, down to the starter, and then to the battery. This is a known weak point on the 2007-2008 Sprinter chassis. The cable was upgraded starting with 2009 production.

[MyGplante]

Originally Posted by bigb

FWIW there was a TSB issued for the starter relay fuse back in 2013. Some came with a 20 amp which should be replaced with a 25 amp. The change was made as of 3/09/2012 production, well after your 2008 was made.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...62615-2280.pdf

In reading your post again I see that the starter relay is clicking, so your fuse is likely OK. Next would be the notorious "Y" cable that runs from the alternator, down to the starter, and then to the battery. This is a known weak point on the 2007-2008 Sprinter chassis. The cable was upgraded starting with 2009 production.

The famous Y cable has been changed in same time that my new alternator. Thank you.

[MyGplante]

Originally Posted by Morich

Okay, I got a drawing and would like to make sure we are saying the same and not create confusion!
I found this picture of a common starter type for your RV. It may not look quite the same but should have the same parts and connections.
Attachment 189656
The big black thing at right is the starter motor that turns to crank the engine to start. There is often a braided brass looking "wire" to the solenoid, the shiny thing on left!
I think you are saying you get 12+ volts on the left lug that has a battery cable on it! That says you have good battery there wating to connect through the contacts inside the solenoid and go tothe motor!

What we need to see is the power from the rest of the car part like key and all the little gizmos to make it do what newer cars do! Things like transmission right and too many for me to know!

When somebody turns the key, you should see that smaller lug and wire get power! If all is right with the starter that power goes through a coil inside the solenoid and pulls the solenoid contacts together to pass the power from the battery cable on through to the mesh to the motor to turn!

Two ways to do some checking.
One way is to connect the 12Volts on the big lug to the small lug for just a test to make sure the starter turns.
Carefull that all moving parts like fan and belts, etc are clear and car is not in gear before doing this! You are wiring around any kind of safety and the engine and car may jump when the engine tries to start if it it is in gear!

But if you are looking at the small lug with a meter, it should not show any voltage until somebody turns the key! Then when they are trying to start the engine 12volts should show up on that small lug. That power should close the contacts and the engine crank!

Your choice which to do ? Look for voltage on the small lug when key is turned or put it there by shorting the 12volts on the battery cable to the small lug!
This is like a wall switch only instead of us flipping the switch, we send power down to move the contacts!

It spounds like you are getting the power to this "switch" (solenoid) but it is not getting on to the right lug where the motor is.
Ids it because the signal is not getting from the key and ignition parts dow to the small lug?
Or is that part getting power down to the solenoid but it is not passing it on to the motor?
There could be lots of stuff like transmission interlocks, park brakes or lots of stuff but if the signal is getting down there on the small wire, the contacts should be passing it on to turn the motor!

Careful not to make the vehicle jump and run over you!

I grew up around farm machinery and know it can be dangerous!

I understand the start-up process better. I will check tomorrow morning the voltage from the solenoid and try to jump the starter directly like explained. Thank you very much for your support.

[Morich]

Sometimes we get too involved in thinking things are more complex than they really are.
The solenoid is like common switch with contacts insode that make the connection for power to flow.
They are done by power when the normal switch on the wwall is done by hand!
That makes first we need to know that power that replaces our hand is getting to the right place on the solenoid. Kind of like we walk in and flip the switch?

Then when we get that done, there can be bad contacts like in a bad switch!
But the last, most important thing we need is to give the power coming from the battery on the big cable a way to get to the motor!
If we put metal across those two big lugs and know we are getting power to the motor, it should try to turn or it is bad!

Best of luck on the chase and let us know how it goes?

[MyGplante]

Originally Posted by Morich

Sometimes we get too involved in thinking things are more complex than they really are.
The solenoid is like common switch with contacts insode that make the connection for power to flow.
They are done by power when the normal switch on the wwall is done by hand!
That makes first we need to know that power that replaces our hand is getting to the right place on the solenoid. Kind of like we walk in and flip the switch?

Then when we get that done, there can be bad contacts like in a bad switch!
But the last, most important thing we need is to give the power coming from the battery on the big cable a way to get to the motor!
If we put metal across those two big lugs and know we are getting power to the motor, it should try to turn or it is bad!

Best of luck on the chase and let us know how it goes?

Finally, I tried taking readings on the small solenoid connector, but it wasn't receiving any voltage. I then boosted the starter with a large screwdriver (12 volts and solenoid bolt) and the engine started. However, if I switch the motor off, I can't restart it. The solenoid seems to be defective... As the starter is really difficult to access and I'm not equipped to dismantle it, I'm going to take it to my dealer with the results of our approach and various tests. Thank you so much for your help with the diagnosis, I've learned a lot.

Merci beaucoup. ;-)

[Our ride]

Originally Posted by MyGplante

Finally, I tried taking readings on the small solenoid connector, but it wasn't receiving any voltage. I then boosted the starter with a large screwdriver (12 volts and solenoid bolt) and the engine started. However, if I switch the motor off, I can't restart it. The solenoid seems to be defective... As the starter is really difficult to access and I'm not equipped to dismantle it, I'm going to take it to my dealer with the results of our approach and various tests. Thank you so much for your help with the diagnosis, I've learned a lot.

Merci beaucoup. ;-)

The starter and solenoid are not bad.After reading what you have done and tested ,,looking at your results the small wire going to solenoid is not getting power to it from the ignition switch (key switch) .you need to find out why that is not getting any voltage.Your test confirm starter and solenoid are fine.Just to let you know I am a retired heavy truck mechanic.

[cthiggy]

MyGplante wrote: I'm going to take it to my dealer with the results of our approach and various tests.

May I ask which dealer in/near Quebec City you use??

Although we live in Stuart Florida, spouse & I are in St. Foy with our 2020 Navion Sprinter. Always handy to know the locations of dealers that can service Sprinters.

Merci,
cthiggy

[MyGplante]

Originally Posted by cthiggy

MyGplante wrote: I'm going to take it to my dealer with the results of our approach and various tests.

May I ask which dealer in/near Quebec City you use??

Although we live in Stuart Florida, spouse & I are in St. Foy with our 2020 Navion Sprinter. Always handy to know the locations of dealers that can service Sprinters.

Merci,
cthiggy

https://www.mercedes-benz-stnicolas.ca/en
Excellent service.

[MyGplante]

Originally Posted by Our ride

The starter and solenoid are not bad.After reading what you have done and tested ,,looking at your results the small wire going to solenoid is not getting power to it from the ignition switch (key switch) .you need to find out why that is not getting any voltage.Your test confirm starter and solenoid are fine.Just to let you know I am a retired heavy truck mechanic.

The dealer told me that the solenoid responded intermittently during bench tests, which is why the recommendation to replace it with a Bosch starter lifetime warranty.

[Bobn1957]

Originally Posted by MyGplante

Finally, I tried taking readings on the small solenoid connector, but it wasn't receiving any voltage. I then boosted the starter with a large screwdriver (12 volts and solenoid bolt) and the engine started. However, if I switch the motor off, I can't restart it. The solenoid seems to be defective... As the starter is really difficult to access and I'm not equipped to dismantle it, I'm going to take it to my dealer with the results of our approach and various tests. Thank you so much for your help with the diagnosis, I've learned a lot.

Merci beaucoup. ;-)

You could try jumping from the big wire from the battery to the small control wire, if the starter operates the solenoid is fine and the problem is somewhere on the control side! Have you checked all the fuses? The relay you changed might have two fuses, one for the relay and one for the starter solenoid! On my RV there was a wire broken at the back of the fuse block, it was tough to diagnose!