Need filter changing help or suggestions

wagonmaster2 · 05-11-2013, 03:06 PM

I started to change the engine fuel filter on my 2004 Meridian 36G with a Cat C-7 engine and am running into problems. I always change the fuel/water filter back by the radiator once a year and the engine filter every other year but guess the engine filter has always been changed while in the shop for other work. And I undoubtedly I was never able to be in the right spot to watch how the experts did it. Since there is no primer pump at the filter connection I assume it has to be installed pre-filled with diesel (I know the first change was done this way but the tech was doing a re-call on the fuel rail so he had other parts off out of his way) but it doesn't look possible to keep the new filter up-right while getting it into installation position.

Just trying to position the new filter into place before removing the old filter seems an impossibility without removing some other hoses that are in the way, the CAC hose in particular. And it seems so stiff with the wire coil lining I can't imagine being able to pull it off the engine to move out of the way. What a job this would seem to be if necessary out on the side of the road somewhere.

Anyone who does all their own fuel filter changes on a C-7, and if the 36G is different from any other models, have any suggestions or advice on how to attack this?

cbeierl · 05-11-2013, 03:17 PM

This thread might be of help: Changed fuel filter, now not starting!!!

wagonmaster2 · 05-11-2013, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbeierl

This thread might be of help: Changed fuel filter, now not starting!!!

That thread had some very good information, but my problem is not "to pre-fill or not to", but how to physically get to the secondary filter on the engine in order to remove it and physically get the new filter back in place. The biggest obstacle seems to be the 2 1/2"-3" CAC hose that attaches just in front of the filter. That hose is very stiff and I'm concerned about kinking it even if I can manage to get it loose from where it attaches by the filter.

Maybe some of those who did pre-fill their engine filter can chime in and give an explanation as to how they managed to remove the filter.

CorLynn · 05-11-2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2

That thread had some very good information, but my problem is not "to pre-fill or not to", but how to physically get to the secondary filter on the engine in order to remove it and physically get the new filter back in place. The biggest obstacle seems to be the 2 1/2"-3" CAC hose that attaches just in front of the filter. That hose is very stiff and I'm concerned about kinking it even if I can manage to get it loose from where it attaches by the filter.

Maybe some of those who did pre-fill their engine filter can chime in and give an explanation as to how they managed to remove the filter.

Can't help with the hose. But I'll bump. But as for pre fill or not, I did NOT pre fill and it was a mistake, had to crank on my engine a thousand times before it would start.

FIRE UP · 05-11-2013, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2

I started to change the engine fuel filter on my 2004 Meridian 36G with a Cat C-7 engine and am running into problems. I always change the fuel/water filter back by the radiator once a year and the engine filter every other year but guess the engine filter has always been changed while in the shop for other work. And I undoubtedly I was never able to be in the right spot to watch how the experts did it. Since there is no primer pump at the filter connection I assume it has to be installed pre-filled with diesel (I know the first change was done this way but the tech was doing a re-call on the fuel rail so he had other parts off out of his way) but it doesn't look possible to keep the new filter up-right while getting it into installation position.

Just trying to position the new filter into place before removing the old filter seems an impossibility without removing some other hoses that are in the way, the CAC hose in particular. And it seems so stiff with the wire coil lining I can't imagine being able to pull it off the engine to move out of the way. What a job this would seem to be if necessary out on the side of the road somewhere.

Anyone who does all their own fuel filter changes on a C-7, and if the 36G is different from any other models, have any suggestions or advice on how to attack this?

Wagonmaster,
Chris sent you my thread on the fuel filter change and starting problems. I was pretty sure it would not help you. But, it was worth something for later service for you. What I find just a tad bit odd here is, your coach, an '04 Meridian 36G with the C-7 330 CAT, has TWO FUEL FILTERS and, my coach, an '04 Horizon 36GD, also with the C-7 330 CAT, has only ONE fuel filter, back by the radiator.

And since I don't have that secondary fuel filter, I cannot help you with your dilemma. I wish I could. But, no dice. Too bad you don't have a picture, I'd like to see how close of tolerances you're talking about.
Scott

cbeierl · 05-11-2013, 09:50 PM

Sorry, I missed that you were talking about the secondary on the engine. I watched mine being changed once--the mechanic had to sit on top of the engine and struggled with the job.

I decided that wasn't a job I wanted to do, so I did this: Relocated Fuel Filter & Added Priming Pump. Now it's a piece of cake.

Iron Horse · 05-12-2013, 08:32 AM

Wagonmaster, I too have a Winnebago 36G with the Cat C7 engine 2007 vintage. Mine has the primary filter (Racor, which is a water separator) is easy to change at the radiator area. The secondary filter which is located on top of the engine next to the valve cover is another story. I change it by going under the bed area and twisting it off with a fuel filter wrench with a pipe extension on it. I have changed it from under the engine also but it is a real bear. It is usually real tight but I have managed to get it loose so far. I put my finger over the center hole (inlet) in the filter and prefill it thru the outer ring of holes. I put it back the same way usually spilling a little. Don't ever put this filter back on empty unless you have a manual fuel pump located next to the fuel filter. I change mine once a year when I change the engine oil. P.S. Don't know your age but I'm 70 and can still giterdun. Hope this helps a little.
Bill

Sammie · 05-12-2013, 09:53 AM

Wagonmaster, My 2006 Journey 36G has the same filter you are talking about and your right. It's a real bear to change. My first suggestion is to wash off your entire engine from under the bed with simple green so that when you do change the filter, there is less of a chance of contamination of the new prefilled filter.

What I do is to break loose the old filter with a filter strap wrench that you can buy at your local autoparts store. Once you have removed the old filter and got it out of the way it's time to bring the new filter and a bottle of diesel fuel in the coach. I used a 1 gallon plastic jug ( old simple green jug ) and cut part of the top off so that I could use it to put the old filter in when carrying it out.

Next take the new filter and plug the center hole with a 1/2 inch pipe plug or nipple. Then carefully position the new filter in place and gently pour diesel fuel in the outer holes until it's full ( not easy ).

Lastly pull out the center plug and screw the filter in place being carefull not to get any dirt in it. Tighten firmly by hand. I forgot to mention that it's a good idea to wipe some diesel fuel on the new filter gasket surface.

Hope this helps,
Sammie

wagonmaster2 · 05-12-2013, 02:03 PM

Thanks for all the information guys. Washing the engine off with Simple Green and Dawn dish washing liquid in a 1 gallon tank sprayer then using the garden hose with the nozzel on a fine spray was the first thing I did. Then while with the new filter still enclosed in the shrink wrap they seal it with I tried to get it into place anywheres near the old one which proved to be a futule attempt. Everything seems to be in the way.
Figured I'd better know if I could get the new one through and around all the hoses and braces before removing the old one.

Filling the new one with diesel after getting it in place does sound like a good idea since it looked like the filter would have to be turned in all sorts of positions before getting it in place. Was wondering what size plug it would take for the center hole. I have a PVC plug for the rear filter but that filter is much larger than the engine one.

Not sure just exactly when they switched back from one filter to two. My coach was built either in late December 2003 or early January 2004 don't remember exactly at this time. Delivery was in last week of February 2004.

At age 76, first of June, a recent hip replacement, and two herinated discs in my back I'm still trying to do everything I used to but finding things a little tight once in a while. Having grown up in my dad's auto repair garage back in the 50's & 60's it's getting a little tough being somewhat limited on what I can do and can't, but I just keep trudging away at the projects anyway.

Appreciate all the help, and I will take a look at the filter from under the coach even though from under the bed it looks like a pretty good reach.
Don't think getting the old filter loose will be as much a problem as physically getting it out and the new one in place.

wagonmaster2 · 05-12-2013, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbeierl

Sorry, I missed that you were talking about the secondary on the engine. I watched mine being changed once--the mechanic had to sit on top of the engine and struggled with the job.

I decided that wasn't a job I wanted to do, so I did this: Relocated Fuel Filter & Added Priming Pump. Now it's a piece of cake.

Hi Chris,
I went to your link to see if yours was the same as mine but I couldn't get the pictures to come up. Also thought maybe Scott, previous post, would be interested also since I have no way of posting a picture of this tangled mess.

cbeierl · 05-12-2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wagonmaster2

Hi Chris,
I went to your link to see if yours was the same as mine but I couldn't get the pictures to come up. Also thought maybe Scott, previous post, would be interested also since I have no way of posting a picture of this tangled mess.

That's odd. The pictures are all in my Member Gallery in the Relocated Fuel Filter album.

On edit: In fact, here they are:

wagonmaster2 · 05-12-2013, 02:30 PM

That worked Chris, and it looks exactly like mine. Hopefully Scott will be able to see it also. Now how in the h___ (pardon my French) do I work the filter in/out of that position. Worse tactical puzzle I've ever tried to do. I tried to work the new filter even close to the old one before even unwrapping it but there just doesn't seem to be any openings wide enough. If it wasn't for that large black hose coming from the CAC (I think that's where) it would be a piece of cake, or apple pie.
Thanks for the additional link with the pictures.

Worse case, I just realized that last week at Forest City when they had the air conditioner out for repairs the filter change would have been a piece of cake. But with all the decisions on how many parts to replace just for maintenance on the A/C, how much and when the extended warranty was going to approve of, and everything they were doing on the slideout for repairs and adjustments I guess my mind was elsewhere. What there was of it anyway.

FIRE UP · 05-12-2013, 04:56 PM

Wagonmaster,
In my "war" with the fuel filter change and the no start condition that succeeded, I learned a few things. One, never install a dry diesel fuel filter. Two, have a full tank when doing a filter change. Three, use the right filter, the right micron rating and, one more thing, in my case, and the luck I have, TURN THE NEW FUEL VALVES OFF, prior to removing the old filter. That way you isolate the filter and, there is no drain back, in any direction.

Now, pertaining to the one fuel filter vs two fuel filters on C-7s. In talking with a CAT expert that teaches at Freightliner camps etc. he explained that CAT and Freightliner didn't agree on the use of a single filter system in the build time of our era coaches. I've got a good friend who has an '04 Horizon with the C-7 330 CAT and, his was built 60 units after ours was. His is also a single filter C-7. The story goes that they argued for a while and, the "BEAN COUNTERS" won. The technical side of it was that the single, 2-micron would do the trick.

So, that is why many C-7 equipped coaches are running a single fuel filter system. CAT and Freightliner were running the two filter system up to that decision and, because of so much flack from consumers/techs etc. there was a decision to make the move back to the dual filter system. Now, just what chassis numbers were on the line when both changes took place, who knows?

But, yours is the first '04 C-7 330 (in the Itasca line up anyway) that I've heard of with the dual filter system. Always learning something here.

Now, as to what Chris and others have done in the "relocation of the secondary filter", it was explained to me that CAT has a reason for the filter being where it is or, was placed in the first place. While certainly not ergonomically the easiest to access and change, it is supposed to be in that spot or, in the line up from tank, to primary filter, to transfer pump, to secondary filter and finally to HEUI pump.

Again, I'm certainly no expert and, apparently it works as Chris and others have had extended use of their coaches after the move of the secondary filter to a more ergonomically feasible service area. So, I did look into an addition of a secondary filter and in fact, had one offered to me, the filter, lines, filter head and pump etc. for a reasonable price. But, I'm still thinking about it. Our coach, at present, has 50K miles on it and, to date, has had no (single) filter caused incidents. Does that mean it will go another 50K without any, who knows?
Scott

wagonmaster2 · 05-12-2013, 06:32 PM

I've always replaced the filters with the exact ones the coach came out with. But after doing this for several years, and with all the confusion that seems to be going around as to the micron size of the primary filter part numbers I'm told the primary I'm using is a 2 micron and so is the secondary one on the engine. Undoubtedly I got caught right at the change over to two filters but they didn't change my primary one that had been used with only one filter.

So after 61,000 miles I'm hesitant to make any changes at this point. I called Cat Hot Line to see if I could possibly be causing any trouble with two 2 micron filters and was told it just means the one at the engine is getting a free ride. So I've been changing the primary every year and the one at the engine every 2-3 years. As much trouble/problem it is to do the engine filter I think I'll just stick with the same schedule. And if I have to change filters out on the road hopefully all I'll have to change is the primary, which I can do in 10 minutes easily.

Old Snipe · 05-12-2013, 07:51 PM

I have the same C-7 is my 2007 WB Journey 39K. I am able to reach the filter from inside the coach. I can reach around the CAC hose with no problem and remove/install the engine filter.

I added the primer pump to my Cat. It cost ~$75 at my Freightliner dealer, and is a two bolt, 5 minute install right above the engine fuel filter.

About 70 strokes on the little pump and the filter is primed and ready to go.

The fuel/water separator on the rear can also be primed but it takes around 100-150 strokes on the pump.

I change the f/w separator first, then fill it with the primer pump and start the engine. After running for a couple of minutes, I shut down the engine and change the engine fuel filter.

My thinking is any debris that I may knock loose changing the f/w separator will be caught in the engine filter, which I then discard and install the new filter. Just for my peace of mind.

Since adding the fuel primer pump, the filter changing is not messy and is a quick operation. If I had to do a filter change out on the road, it eliminates the need to pre fill a filter.

Best Regards!

RVBeagle · 05-13-2013, 05:48 AM

We are new owners of a 2004 Itasca Meridian 39W. As it came without service records I'm in the process of changing all the fluids and filters. Today is the day to change the fuel filters so this thread has been very helpful. If it goes well enough I may get around to changing the engine oil too. Things usually don't work out that well in my experience but it never hurts to be optimistic!

The forums have been a great help. Thanks to all...

John
2004 Itasca Meridian 39W

Sammie · 05-13-2013, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVBeagle

We are new owners of a 2004 Itasca Meridian 39W. As it came without service records I'm in the process of changing all the fluids and filters. Today is the day to change the fuel filters so this thread has been very helpful. If it goes well enough I may get around to changing the engine oil too. Things usually don't work out that well in my experience but it never hurts to be optimistic!

The forums have been a great help. Thanks to all...

John
2004 Itasca Meridian 39W

Welcome John, Don't be afraid to ask questions or give answers. We all learn from each other.

Sammie

Old Snipe · 05-13-2013, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVBeagle

We are new owners of a 2004 Itasca Meridian 39W. As it came without service records I'm in the process of changing all the fluids and filters. Today is the day to change the fuel filters so this thread has been very helpful. If it goes well enough I may get around to changing the engine oil too. Things usually don't work out that well in my experience but it never hurts to be optimistic!

The forums have been a great help. Thanks to all...

John
2004 Itasca Meridian 39W

That's why we're here, to help each other! Good luck with your oil change, you'll have somewhere between 19-22 quarts, so have a big drain bucket!

I installed a Fumoto drain valve in place of the oil pan drain plug so I can drain a few quarts, shut off the valve, dump the oil in my recycle bucket and repeat. Makes a messy job much easier. I don't like oil in my armpits!

Best Regards!

wagonmaster2 · 05-13-2013, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammie

Wagonmaster, My 2006 Journey 36G has the same filter you are talking about and your right. It's a real bear to change. My first suggestion is to wash off your entire engine from under the bed with simple green so that when you do change the filter, there is less of a chance of contamination of the new prefilled filter.

What I do is to break loose the old filter with a filter strap wrench that you can buy at your local autoparts store. Once you have removed the old filter and got it out of the way it's time to bring the new filter and a bottle of diesel fuel in the coach. I used a 1 gallon plastic jug ( old simple green jug ) and cut part of the top off so that I could use it to put the old filter in when carrying it out.

Next take the new filter and plug the center hole with a 1/2 inch pipe plug or nipple. Then carefully position the new filter in place and gently pour diesel fuel in the outer holes until it's full ( not easy ).

Lastly pull out the center plug and screw the filter in place being carefull not to get any dirt in it. Tighten firmly by hand. I forgot to mention that it's a good idea to wipe some diesel fuel on the new filter gasket surface.

Hope this helps,
Sammie

Hi Sammie,

Question on the 1/2" pipe plug. I bought one yesterday at the hardware store but it fits the opening in the filter very loose, like it will wobble quite a bit when screwed into the large opening of the filter. Did I get the correct plug or will it be a fairly loose fit but still enough to keep fuel from running in the large hole while filling the smaller holes?

Sammie · 05-13-2013, 11:45 AM

wagonmaster, Pretty sure it's a 1/2 inch plug as a 3/4 plug is probably too big. I've got that old CRS and it's been awhile since I changed the filter. Loose fit is OK cause its just in there to keep the diesel from going into the center hole. What I did was removed the old filter first and then wiggle the new filter in place, then carefully pour in the diesel fuel, pull the plug and screw on the new filter. I spilled a little diesel on the engine but washed it off with some simple green. Be sure to fire up the engine when done and check for leaks.

Sammie