New HWH Springs Installed...Still a PROBLEM! Help!

leedowney · 07-16-2010, 08:44 PM

I have had slow retracting jacks on my 10 year old Winnebago Journey for several months now. Over the past 3 or 4 trips, three out of four jacks won't retract at all without force from me and a 2x4. I took the initial advice from HWH and sprayed the shafts with WD-40 and wiped them off. This helped a little. I then took further advice from users on this forum as well as HWH and installed new springs on all 4 jacks today. I still have the same problem. 3 out of 4 jacks will not retract without much force from me.

I have cleaned up around each seal with Q-tips. I have checked all the fuses. I have opened all 4 T-handles on the solenoids and that made no difference at all with retraction. The new springs made no impovement at all. I have ruled out bad solenoids, blown fuses and weak springs. What's left? Some threads discuss seals being twisted as a possible problem. Has anyone replaced the seals? Are they easy to replace? Any advice will be appreciated that will help resolve this problem.

Thanks.

leedowney · 07-17-2010, 09:50 AM

Update- I removed the front jacks this morning. It was easier that I had thought it would be. Now that their off, I don't see any way to access the seals or even gain open the jack. Does anyway have any suggestions on reconditioning these jacks?

Thanks.

Steve N Sal · 07-17-2010, 10:09 AM

I spoke with a hydraulic shop here in Traverse City yesterday and he was sure the only way of servicing them is to send back to the mfr. I have a front driver side jack that's been giving me problems. I don't believe new springs would help me either as it went up and down just a couple of weeks ago. Now it won't retract unless I back off the nut on the selenoid and start it up with a pry bar. Doesn't take much of a nudge to get it going up after backing off the nut. These things can get to be a pain in the well you know.

NeilV · 07-17-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leedowney

Update- I removed the front jacks this morning. It was easier that I had thought it would be. Now that their off, I don't see any way to access the seals or even gain open the jack. Does anyway have any suggestions on reconditioning these jacks?

Thanks.

With the jack on the bench now and the solenoid remoced does it move freely or does it still require a ton of force? Take the solenoid and springs off and make this determination if you havn't already done so before you start trying to tear down the jack. I am facing the same issue with my left rear jack and may end up taking it off and flushing it out in case it is impacted with sludge on the top of the piston gumming up its retraction.

leedowney · 07-17-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilV

With the jack on the bench now and the solenoid removed does it move freely or does it still require a ton of force? Take the solenoid and springs off and make this determination if you havn't already done so before you start trying to tear down the jack.

I haven't removed the solenoids just the jacks and springs themselves. You asked me about does it require a ton of force to get the jack to retract. How in the world do I test that out with this jack off the coach?

I've read plenty on the net this morning about tearing a jack down and replacing the seals. The sites all say this is the issue if springs didn't fix the problem. I also have a local hydraulic repair facility in my town (Carolina Hydraulics) that I'm going to call Monday for a repair estimate.

ohdh · 07-17-2010, 11:39 AM

I had this very similiar problem about two years ago; could not get the passenger side front and rear jacks to retract without force. In my case, fill air bags, which would lift them 4-5 inches off ground, put a block under them, drop air bags would force them up and then they would slowly retract.

The end solution for me was to have the jacks removed and the shafts had somehow gotten "bent" and they would not go back into the housing.

You might be able to check the shafts if they are extended and using a confirmed straight edge, see if there is any deflection from one end of the shaft to the other and you need to spin the shaft all the way around 360 to find which way they may be bent.

I have been told that it is possible to bend them if you put coach into a reverse or drive position without lifting jacks off the ground OR which I think was my case, parking on a decent slope and leveling coach and having a lot of "push" on those jacks which tweaked them.

I don't remember what I paid for the new shafts to be installed, but it was not cheap. BUT, they have worked fine ever since and they are used very, very frequently and hard!

Winnebagojoe · 07-17-2010, 03:15 PM

I have a 1999 34V, have replaced 3 out of my four jacks, I believe I damanged one because it was stuck down in the ground and I was not aware of it and moved the coach, the first two were when I bought the coach and the dealer replaced one, I should have made them replace both, the other was always slow, and another time jack down when just put it gear, I don't believe it takes much to damage it.

I bought from HWH they gave 50% off if I remember right, when I returned the old jacks. I did not find a way to fix the last one.

leedowney · 07-17-2010, 03:55 PM

Just got back inside from reinstalling the two front jacks I removed this morning. A user sent me an email suggesting I clean the shafts and coat them lightly with some vaseline. So I put the jacks back on as well as the springs, cleaned and coated them. Now, all but one jack retracts within 3-5 minutes. The 4th jack retracts all but 4-6". I used a floor jack to finish the retraction. We have two trips planned over the next month so I think I'll see how the jacks do. If they continue to give me trouble, I'll send them in for seal replacements.

jk_and_dog · 07-17-2010, 04:17 PM

I finally resorted to spraying lightly each psot just prior to lifting with CRC. CRC is the only one i have found that does work well. Ocassionaly i have to hand pressure to get to go up.

Left front is really a hassle.

jk

leedowney · 07-17-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jk_and_dog

I finally resorted to spraying lightly each psot just prior to lifting with CRC. CRC is the only one i have found that does work well.

What does CRC stand for and where can I purchase it?

jk_and_dog · 07-17-2010, 05:53 PM

Its a high grade silicon spray. goy mine at walmart. You need to be careful about silicone sprays as some will affect the seals. CRC has been working past two years. Use a light spray. I normally attach the red spray straw and knell down and spray one side (outside) of post lightly. Jacks go right up. If they stick a little then a little hand pressure will push it up unless the solinoid has reset after too much time.

leedowney · 07-17-2010, 06:37 PM

Here is a picture of the front jacks. The previous owner must have replaced the left front jack at some point since it's 6 inches longer than the original jack.

Click image for larger version

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DriVer · 07-18-2010, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leedowney

Here is a picture of the front jacks. The previous owner must have replaced the left front jack at some point since it's 6 inches longer than the original jack. Attachment 4710

leedowney, WOW see something new everyday! What in the world were they thinkin' !

leedowney · 07-18-2010, 12:30 PM

I'm not sure. Must have been running a good special on the 22" barrels is all I can figure. That's crazy.

Hikerdogs · 07-18-2010, 01:40 PM

When you order jacks from HWH it's strictly by part #. If someone gave them the wrong number they could easily end up with the wrong jack. Even if they gave them the right number there's a chance that the originals have had so many probleems they have made running changes.

I had to order a couple jacks several years ago. We got caught in a blizzard in Minnesota and spent 13 hours slogging through a foot of snow and about a million tons of salt. The salt got splashed up into the seals on the right side jacks and stayed there for almost a month before I could get under the coach to hose things down. By that time the salt attacked the metal seal retainers causing them to rust. Over time the jacks worked slower and slower until they finally wouldn't budge. The seals finally got so tight against the rod they wouldn't move with a 6' pry bar.

The replacement jacks were the same length as the originals but that was about all. When I called back thinking they sent me the wrong parts I was informed the original style that came on our coach had been discontinued and what I was sent were the intended replacements. We've had them in place now a little over 7 years and they still work great.

NeilV · 07-18-2010, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leedowney

I haven't removed the solenoids just the jacks and springs themselves. You asked me about does it require a ton of force to get the jack to retract. How in the world do I test that out with this jack off the coach?

I've read plenty on the net this morning about tearing a jack down and replacing the seals. The sites all say this is the issue if springs didn't fix the problem. I also have a local hydraulic repair facility in my town (Carolina Hydraulics) that I'm going to call Monday for a repair estimate.

Clamp it to the bench, pull it out by hand and then push it back. If it moves freely without any fittings on it then chances are you have a plugged orifice somewhere and you have just verified whether or not the jack itself is the issue.

leedowney · 07-18-2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilV

Clamp it to the bench, pull it out by hand and then push it back. If it moves freely without any fittings on it then chances are you have a plugged orifice somewhere and you have just verified whether or not the jack itself is the issue.

I did try that. The jacks would not budge at all. I think the seals are just worn or twisted keeping the jack from retracting freely. I plan to call HWH and my local hydraulic company (Carolina Hydraulics) tomorrow and see what my options are. My local company advertise they can rebuild any hydraulic jack. This is from their website...."CAROLINA HYDRAULICS, INC. can refurbish/repair your hydraulic cylinder regardless of length or diameter. We can machine a new rod, machine a new piston, gland or barrel. We build your hydraulic cylinder back to OEM specifications. We test and paint your hydraulic cylinder before it is delivered to you."

I hope to deal with my local company since I will save on shipping to and from. Not to mention HWH seems to have sooooo much trouble with their jacks. I can't believe the people and friends I've spoke with in the past few months that have trouble with their HWH jacks. Maybe having another company rebuilt the jack will give me more relieability. We'll see.

ichn2go · 07-19-2010, 07:04 AM

Lee, do yourself a favor and call HWH, Quit playing the ferris wheel game.. Get your solutions directly from the horses mouth.
Good Luck

Petro · 07-19-2010, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichn2go

Lee, do yourself a favor and call HWH, Quit playing the ferris wheel game.. Get your solutions directly from the horses mouth.
Good Luck

That is good advice. Their telephone # is 800-321-3494 if you don't have it handy.

Good luck;
Don

JnGOnTheGo · 07-19-2010, 01:42 PM

I have a front driver's side jack that if I extend it fully it does not want to come up (has new springs). If I put a couple of blocks under it and it only travels less than half way it will retract just fine. Some where I read that the upper seal sometimes rolls and can cause the jack to stick.