Power Gear (now Lippert) pinion gear shaft bushing failure

cruizerEd · 03-05-2016, 10:52 AM

I have spent about a hour trying to find something like this already posted to no avail.

Here are pictures of the issue:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...C1rU1JHYUVYYXM

The bushing on the right hand side is in two parts, the housing (silver colored) is displaced to the right and the bushing (copper) is displaced right.

The slide still works but this needs to be addressed soon.

What I don't understand is, is this a failure of the bushing, or perhaps of the gearbox.

Did the bushing just come apart?
Is there some sort of clip that is suppose to keep the bushing together?
Did the shaft move to the right and let the bushing get loose implying that there is a problem in the gearbox that is letting the shaft move?

Does anybody know how to take the load off of this shaft so that I can try to work with it?

Does the slide have to be in or can you jackup the end of the slide or is there a mechanism that applies force to the keep the pinion gear against the rack that can be loosened?

If I can get it back together even temporary it give me time to work this issue, but knowing more will help with keeping anybody I have to hire to fix this honest.

Thank you for considering my question.

Lv2Roam2 · 03-05-2016, 12:25 PM

Best I can offer you is to consider following the directions for a manual extension/retraction of the slide. On my motors there's a rather simple to reach lever under a rubber boot that is rotated about 90 degrees. I did that on our FWS...it disengages the motor. You should also compare the affected gearing with its counterpart on the other end of the slide. Note: with the motor(s) dIsengaged the slide can move much easier so be sure you're level.

aauummm · 03-05-2016, 01:22 PM

Here's a diagram that will help show how it's supposed to look and the how the parts are supposed to fit together:

aauummm · 03-05-2016, 02:06 PM

Here's a couple of pictures of mine. You can compare what you have with how it's supposed to look. In my opinion, someone has taken it apart and did not put it back together correctly.

cruizerEd · 03-05-2016, 05:12 PM

That big clip may be the missing part. It is not on either of the slide shafts. I will see if there is anotch for it. Thank you for the pictures.

By the way I jogged the slide motor in just s fraction of a turn and that reduced the load on the shaft enough that with a big pin and a cheater I was able to get the bushing back together. I used coper on the left side and a wire tie (very hopeful I know) on the inside to try and keep the bushing in place for now.

cruizerEd · 03-05-2016, 05:14 PM

I have compared them and other than the bushing and the rust, the other one is inside the basement, they look the same.

cruizerEd · 03-05-2016, 05:26 PM

Thank you for the part diagram. Looks like item 24 is missing from both sides, unless that cotter pin serves the same function. If it does I'm not sure how given it is not very close to the bushing housing.

aauummm · 03-05-2016, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruizerEd

That big clip may be the missing part. It is not on either of the slide shafts. I will see if there is anotch for it. Thank you for the pictures.

By the way I jogged the slide motor in just s fraction of a turn and that reduced the load on the shaft enough that with a big pin and a cheater I was able to get the bushing back together. I used coper on the left side and a wire tie (very hopeful I know) on the inside to try and keep the bushing in place for now.

First of all, those are not bushings, they are "bearing steps" (part numbers 14 & 29) with different inside diameters. If you look at mine closely you will see the flanges on the bearing steps (part numbers 14 & 29) are both on the right side of the right steel bracket with the bearing steps fitting inside one another (see photo 1803). The two nestled bearing steps are supposed to be flush with the left side of the right steel bracket (see my pictures 1800 & 1801).

Your bearing step, part no. 14, is in the wrong position and pointed the wrong way. It is the one that is closest to the pinion gear in your photos. It needs to be on the same side of the right steel bracket as part no. 29 and with the flange to the right. The flanges for both parts #14 & #29 then will on the right side of the right steel bracket as shown in my picture 1803).

That "big clip" that you are missing is part number 24 and is a "pin clip hitch". Your factory "pin clip hitch" was replaced by someone with an ordinary cotter pin. That leads me to believe that someone has taken that whole assembly apart and screwed up the placement of parts #14 and #29 and used an ordinary cotter pin instead of the factory "pin clip hitch".

Did you buy this coach used?

cruizerEd · 03-05-2016, 08:00 PM

Yes I bought it use from Dixie RV in Defuniak Springs, FL. We have discovered some rather strange "repairs" that required rework, so your suggestion that something was reworked wrong is consistent with other situations.

Thank you for clarifying the terminology and the design details.

The intended assembly is starting to make sense as is the failure.

Assembled properly the bearing steps are positively located by the "pin clip hitch" and the right steel bracket.

Given your demonstrated level of knowledge I wouldn't be surprised if you can lead me to the information necessary to assemble this properly. It seems all I need to do is get this shaft in a position such that I can get the improperly installed part #14 off the shaft and turned to install properly.

The cotter pin can serve until I can get two "pin clip hitches". Both sides have cotter pins but I think the other side is assembled correctly other than the cotter pin.

Once again thank you for your response. I find it is amazing that someone with so much useful knowledge found and responded to my posting.

aauummm · 03-05-2016, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruizerEd

Yes I bought it use from Dixie RV in Defuniak Springs, FL. We have discovered some rather strange "repairs" that required rework, so your suggestion that something was reworked wrong is consistent with other situations.

Thank you for clarifying the terminology and the design details.

The intended assembly is starting to make sense as is the failure.

Assembled properly the bearing steps are positively located by the "pin clip hitch" and the right steel bracket.

Given your demonstrated level of knowledge I wouldn't be surprised if you can lead me to the information necessary to assemble this properly. It seems all I need to do is get this shaft in a position such that I can get the improperly installed part #14 off the shaft and turned to install properly.

The cotter pin can serve until I can get two "pin clip hitches". Both sides have cotter pins but I think the other side is assembled correctly other than the cotter pin.

Once again thank you for your response. I find it is amazing that someone with so much useful knowledge found and responded to my posting.

Well said! You have got it, man!

It appears to me that only one "pin clip hitch" is needed, the others on mine are cotter pins so that's OK.

Now as to fixing the problem. Here's how I see it. The hole in the right steel bracket for the shaft is elongated or offset in a manner that would allow the shaft to be slipped sideways out of the hole. In order to do that, I would loosen the bolts that hold the motor and motor mount plate (part #23) to the far left steel bracket. That would allow the motor and plate and shaft to move back and forth sideways and allow the shaft to be moved out of the right side elongated hole.

Once that is done, remove the hex coupling (part #22) that is held in place with a set screw, off of the end of the shaft. Slip off the bearing steps. Fit the two bearing steps together so that the flanges are together and slip it back on. Put the pin clip hitch back in place to hold the bearing steps against the right steel flange and you are home free. Put the hex coupling back on, tighten the set screw, and then tighten the motor mount bolts and you've got it back to "as built factory" condition.

Good luck with fixing any other "strange repairs" that you may come across. It is a real mental game trying to figure out what the problem is, and then what was done and how it was done and then trying to bring it back to the way it's supposed to be! Sounds like you are progressing quite well though!

cruizerEd · 03-06-2016, 06:21 AM

I'll give it a try and post an update.o

cruizerEd · 03-06-2016, 11:38 AM

It looks to me like you need to jackup the slide to get the pressure of the plastic roller (15).
Without getting the pressure off of that the 3 of the 4 bolts are bound up.

I haven't come up with an idea how to lift the end of the slide inner rail. I have the trucks worm jack but nothing I would trust to fill the distance from the going to the jack.

aauummm · 03-06-2016, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruizerEd

It looks to me like you need to jackup the slide to get the pressure of the plastic roller (15).
Without getting the pressure off of that the 3 of the 4 bolts are bound up.

I haven't come up with an idea how to lift the end of the slide inner rail. I have the trucks worm jack but nothing I would trust to fill the distance from the going to the jack.

I just checked my plastic roller (#15). With the slideout out, the plastic roller turns freely and there is at least 1/8" gap between the plastic roller (#15) and the rail above it.
Can you get the slideout out?

You may also have to loosen the four bolts that hold the plate (#23) to the left steel bracket to get enough wiggle room to get the shaft out of the right bracket.

cruizerEd · 03-06-2016, 12:23 PM

3 of the 4 mounting bolts are bound up, probably because of pressure on the roller (15). I can not find a way to eliminate this load and suspect the end of the inner rail needs to be lifted to do this.

I haven't conceived of a way to lift the slide end.

Look like I'll be keeping my appointment at Holiday RV and Marine.

jerichorick · 03-06-2016, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruizerEd

I have spent about a hour trying to find something like this already posted to no avail.

Here are pictures of the issue:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8...C1rU1JHYUVYYXM

The bushing on the right hand side is in two parts, the housing (silver colored) is displaced to the right and the bushing (copper) is displaced right.

The slide still works but this needs to be addressed soon.

What I don't understand is, is this a failure of the bushing, or perhaps of the gearbox.

Did the bushing just come apart?
Is there some sort of clip that is suppose to keep the bushing together?
Did the shaft move to the right and let the bushing get loose implying that there is a problem in the gearbox that is letting the shaft move?

Does anybody know how to take the load off of this shaft so that I can try to work with it?

Does the slide have to be in or can you jackup the end of the slide or is there a mechanism that applies force to the keep the pinion gear against the rack that can be loosened?

If I can get it back together even temporary it give me time to work this issue, but knowing more will help with keeping anybody I have to hire to fix this honest.

Thank you for considering my question.

I wonder if the shaft seized onto the bearing and forced it out. You have a lot of rust there.

I use CRC Power Lube with PTFE on my slide cog drive and rail. I don't have the rust you have. Jack the rail up to take the pressure off the cog and try to get the shaft out. You will know more then. I am not certain how the two halves marry together.

In any case, I agree with you. This must be fixed soon.

Rick Y

mjeffrey · 03-07-2016, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruizerEd

I haven't conceived of a way to lift the slide end.

We are looking at an issue with our mechanism and purchased a couple slide out supports (10000 lbs).

Not sure if this is what you were thinking...

cruizerEd · 03-08-2016, 05:29 PM

Pulled up stakes and drove the RV over to Holiday RV and Marine, Key Largo FLA. Quite frankly, the Keys more than compensate for the problems so I'm not complaining ;-)

The service guy at Holiday understood the problem but could work on it until Friday. Holiday RV is a real people place and they lent me a 6x6x18 to jack up the slide and see if I could do it myself.

I was a beautiful day, breeze, warm enough and I got a core work out and learned a lot about how the forward side of my dinet slide is installed.

What I did not learn is how to pull the motor assembly (part 28) from the earlier referenced drawing.

I very carefully and very deliberately made sure that I could relieve the tension and reinstal the assembly should I pull it.

I found that jacking up the assembly close to part 28 was most effective.

I removed the bolts (25) being very careful to be sure that I could get them back in.

Then dissapointment struck. Try as I might I could not get part 28 with part 23 attached free of the surrounding framework.

Ok, I don't want to remove 23 but I will.

This didn't help either, it got me perhaps within 1/2 inch of success.

With out being able to get part 28 (the motor assembly) free I was not able to press part 27 from part 22 and so could not effect the repair.

All I managed to do after a good 6 hours of pretty uncomfortable work was get it back together and get the step bushing mated again in a hacked approximation of how they were intended.

As nice as the Holiday RV guys are, given the current state of the problem I am going to spare them and not ask them to attempt this until I know how it is properly done.

Believe it or not, I'm having fun.

aauummm · 03-08-2016, 07:02 PM

Thanks for the update. Very well written. The part #27 is a pin coil and it looks like it screws out, maybe with an hex key or allen key. Getting that thing within 1/2" of coming out was pretty good. The thing that gets me is that someone took it apart at some point so it has to be possible to take it apart again.

It appears to me that if you can get part #27 out (and #22 off) and the two cotter pins and the pin clip hitch (#20 and #24) out then the motor assembly (#28) should slide to the left far enough to get the two bearing steps (#14 & #29) off of the shaft (if you have #23 off also).

The good thing is that you've got a great attitude about it!

jerichorick · 03-08-2016, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cruizerEd

Pulled up stakes and drove the RV over to Holiday RV and Marine, Key Largo FLA. Quite frankly, the Keys more than compensate for the problems so I'm not complaining ;-)

The service guy at Holiday understood the problem but could work on it until Friday. Holiday RV is a real people place and they lent me a 6x6x18 to jack up the slide and see if I could do it myself.

I was a beautiful day, breeze, warm enough and I got a core work out and learned a lot about how the forward side of my dinet slide is installed.

What I did not learn is how to pull the motor assembly (part 28) from the earlier referenced drawing.

I very carefully and very deliberately made sure that I could relieve the tension and reinstal the assembly should I pull it.

I found that jacking up the assembly close to part 28 was most effective.

I removed the bolts (25) being very careful to be sure that I could get them back in.

Then dissapointment struck. Try as I might I could not get part 28 with part 23 attached free of the surrounding framework.

Ok, I don't want to remove 23 but I will.

This didn't help either, it got me perhaps within 1/2 inch of success.

With out being able to get part 28 (the motor assembly) free I was not able to press part 27 from part 22 and so could not effect the repair.

All I managed to do after a good 6 hours of pretty uncomfortable work was get it back together and get the step bushing mated again in a hacked approximation of how they were intended.

As nice as the Holiday RV guys are, given the current state of the problem I am going to spare them and not ask them to attempt this until I know how it is properly done.

Believe it or not, I'm having fun.

Try broad nose vise grips to get the step bearing to cooperate. I think it is wonderful that you could go as far you did. I truly fee for you that you could not get the assembly out. Did you consider removing any of the cotter pins or trying to drive the split pin out? In any case... Bummer. I hope you don't have to have too much more fun.

Rick Y

cruizerEd · 03-09-2016, 06:07 AM

I went to Holiday RV in Key Largo.
They wanted to see it before setting up an appointment so that they could have the parts ordered.

Very nice people. I went over the issue with the service rep and he understood and agreed no parts were needed. He had an opening Friday. I asked if I could borrow something to jack up the slide and try my self and they were very obliging.

Referencing the attach diagram.
I could not remove part 28 from part one because the shaft sticking through part 23 fouled a framing element forming the rear of the front drivers side wheel well before the shaft could clear the slots in part one.

I tried many many different geometries and even loosed part 23 which got me closer but still no clearance.

I didn't see any way to get it out short of cutting away some of the framing or cutting off some of the shaft.

I can not reasonably address the issue with out pulling part 28 so that 27 can be pressed from 22 such that the step bearings can be removed and installed properly. It is possible with the right tools it could be removed with the motor installed, the motor worked loose, the bearings fixed, the motor installed, and the coupling installed, but that still leaves no known way to replace a faulty motor gear box, something I consider unacceptable.

We shall see what Winnebago has to say about this.

I am not taking it to Holiday RV, it would be mean to throw this in their laps. I have the bushing held in place with wire ties and they function that way.

On the upside the weather in the Keys is great. Met some nice people at Holiday RV. I like working problems. I am learning more about the coach and will be better prepared in the future. I got a great ab workout reaching up and trying to finagle that motor out. All in all it would be silly to complain.