Repaired toilet test water hookup needed w/ pic

Upinsmoke · 11-06-2020, 02:40 AM

During the winterizing of our RV this season, one of the toilets broke. The short version is that the detent on the "ball" broke, and while it would still allow the ball to open, it wouldn't close. It was a bit of a search, and a wait, but ultimately, all of the parts showed up.

Fast forward to the toilet having been (cleaned - yuk!) rebuilt and sitting on my bench. Since the RV is winterized, I'd like to test the toilet before reinstalling. If it's not right I'd rather know it here than a thousand miles from home.

So, I'm picking our collective minds as to a way to connect a house water source (hose) to the toilet water inlet. For those who may not be familiar, I've included a pic of where the water line screws onto the back of the toilet. Seems like some sort of garden hose or pex tubing reduced/adapted to one of these RV type fittings - maybe?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

l1v3fr33ord1 · 11-06-2020, 04:20 AM

Upinsmoke-

The fitting on the toilet is a 1/2-inch MIP ("Male Iron Pipe") (a.k.a. MNPT, "Male National Pipe Thread").

This will work:

3/4" FHT (Female Hose Thread) swivel to 1/2" FIP (Female Iron Pipe)

Or, you could make your own out of two parts:

3/4" FHT swivel to 3/4" MIP
3/4" MIP to 1/2" FIP bushing

If you use the two-piece solution, remember to put

Plumber's thread tape

between the two brass fittings, then put the 1/2" FIP on the toilet's 1/2" MIP, without tape.

Don't go crazy tightening the brass onto the toilet's 1/2" MIP. Hand-tight should be fine. You want to be careful not to cross-thread the toilet fitting. And, don't let the hose twist that fitting too much, either, or it could break off the toilet.

Morich · 11-06-2020, 08:12 AM

You might find an adapter (GHT-to-NPT) like one of these to fit the size hose you use. A nylon or plastic would be nice, but this is an example of the type:
https://www.grainger.com/search/pipe...JMEDM:20500731

DavidM · 11-06-2020, 08:23 AM

Another way is to remove the tubing from the suction fitting on your fresh water pump. Then hook up a short length of tubing and put the other end in a bucket of 25%, 50% or whatever percentage of antifreeze it takes for your area. Then start the pump and flush the toilet. A gallon or two should be plenty to test the toilet.

David

Winterbagoal · 11-06-2020, 10:07 AM

Maybe something like this for a temporary connection for testing?

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/C185V+OvM8S.mp4

https://www.amazon.ca/Camco-22484-22...FY326H681H8JJN

rgvtexan · 11-07-2020, 12:05 AM

$1.98
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Apollo-1-2-...apter/50030700
$0.88
https://www.lowes.com/search?searchT...t+pvc+coupling

Upinsmoke · 11-07-2020, 02:29 AM

As always, good information and thoughtful practical suggestions. With my new learned information, I'll be able to make up a test rig and give her a try. I'll let you know how it goes. May be several days before I can get to it.

Morich · 11-07-2020, 09:40 AM

Think first, act second? Always a good plan!

Upinsmoke · 11-08-2020, 03:20 AM

OP here with an update. The good news is that I found an adapter (thanks) and the (now clean as a whistle) toilet overall, works great. Holds water in the bowl, nozzle sprays, and it flushes but. . . . .

The adapter I choose was brass and,as warned, it boogered up the threads a little. Luckily, I guess, I had put Teflon tape on the fitting or it may have been worse. I dressed the threads up a bit and I think they'll be fine.

However, using the same philosophy, test it before I install it, I'd like to find the same plastic female fitting as is on the RV, screw it on and check for leaks w/low air pressure and soapy water - same as for a gas leak.

So, can anyone tell me the name of and/or where to purchase these fittings? Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have some on the RV as insurance against needing them. Or, will any, plastic female fitting of the correct thread type work to check it out?

Last thing, can I, or should I, put Teflon tape on the threads when finally re-installing the toilet?

Thanks as always.

l1v3fr33ord1 · 11-08-2020, 05:01 AM

Upinsmoke-

Two pictures of the fitting on the coach piping would remove uncertainty from the recommendations: one from the side, and a second from the end that goes on the toilet.

I suspect your coach is built with Flair-It fittings, but don't want to guess. My coach is built with hardware-store PEX fittings; the one that attaches to the toilet has an interior rubber seal ring.

I took it out of my first post, but I'll ask it now: Do you have any tools or experience working with PEX tubing and fittings?

As a rule, and why I recommended doing without in my post, plastic fittings should not require plumber's tape, whether plastic-to-plastic or plastic-to-metal. That's because plastic fittings deform to seal the threads. In fact, plumber's tape can increase the chance a plastic fitting will crack.

While waiting for the pictures, I recommend you reattach the brass fitting- very carefully, by hand, stopping if you feel any undue resistance- without plumber's tape, and test again.

Start slowly, making sure the brass fitting is square with the toilet fitting. If you don't know the trick to starting threaded fittings, spin the brass fitting counterclockwise (that is, in the unscrewing direction) until you feel the thread "bump" over the start of the threads in the plastic fitting. That lines up the threads, and reduces the chance of cross-threading.

If you get a leak, well, we'll figure out what to do. It could be that there's no leak.

Upinsmoke · 11-08-2020, 03:40 PM

l1v3fr33ord1

Thanks for the thought about pics of the connection in the RV. I guess I incorrectly assumed (I know, I know) that all of the connections would be the same. I will get pics of it tomorrow from the front and side. I also believe (after looking around a little) they are Flair-It, but let's make sure.

I have little to no experience with Pex, but I do know of it. I have used shark bite fittings in other applications but not sure if it's the same as Pex. Wow, something new to learn - yeah!

My very real (to me) concern with re-trying the brass fitting is the fear of it starting crooked and doing more damage to the threads. As a retired firefighter, I am very familiar with backing off the female coupling until it clicks before trying to couple them. However, with 3" couplings, it makes a bigger click.

I'll post the pics as soon as I get them and we'll go from there. Thanks

Upinsmoke · 11-09-2020, 01:51 PM

l1v3fr33ord1 & others,

Here are the photos of the water connection to the toilet in the RV. What say you?
I did purchase a couple of plastic connectors in case I decide to go that route in checking it out again.
Thanks for any input.

l1v3fr33ord1 · 11-09-2020, 04:55 PM

Upinsmoke-

That's a PEX swivel elbow, attached with a PEX "Oetiker" stainless-steel crimp ring onto a non-PEX piece of tubing.

See this link for a similar elbow, and this link for the clamp.

To make up a garden hose connection, add:

1) a short length of 1/2" PEX tubing
2) 1/2" PEX to 1/2" MIP adapter
3) 1/2" FIP to FGH (Female Garden Hose) swivel adapter

For tools, you'll need a PEX cutter and a crimp tool suitable for the Oetiker clamps.

Code:

Toilet --- Elbow --- Clamp --- PEX tubing --- Clamp --- 1/2" PEX to 1/2" MIP adapter --- 1/2" FIP to FGH adapter --- Garden hose
                                                                 (brass)                          (brass)
                                                                                      ^
                                                                                      |
                                                                                      |

                                                                           Use Teflon tape here

Morich · 11-09-2020, 09:10 PM

On that type, I would go with no tape or dope for this reason. Looking at the first picture, you can see a yellow item that I think will be a rubber washer to make the end of the fitting compress that washer. It pays to check what I think I see in pictures but I think I see where the part of the rubber that was pressed tight is not discolored the same as the part that was exposed?
So the general idea is that if there is a rubber seal like we see in a hose with a washer, there is no need for sealing the threads as the water is not supposed to get to that point but be sealed at the washer. The trick, if the old washer is now hard and brittle, is in getting the rubber to mash hard enough to seal and before we screw it down so tight we break the plastic fitting. If that is an old rubber washer, putting a new one in before trying might be a good move?
The irrigation supply section of big box stores may be a good place to find the plastic to fit as irrigation uses far more 1/2 inch stuff. Often off the side of the regular plumbing.

Upinsmoke · 11-10-2020, 02:58 AM

Thanks gents.

l1v3fr33ord1, your suggestion/diagram is a good one but pretty expensive for a test rig. I am only looking for an option other than the brass 1/2" MIP adapter which I believe I now have. Stay tuned. The information on the Pex tubing, fittings and tools is great albeit a bit pricey. Do you know if any of it is sold locally? BTW, the web sites are very nice.

I believe Morich makes a good and valid point regarding the yellow(ed) washer seen inside the elbow of the fitting in the first pic. Do you know if these washers are removable, and possibly replaceable locally? I'd really hate to mess this one up trying to get it out only to find that I now have to replace the Pex fitting.

Morich, thanks. As stated, I believe your point is a good one and may be the answer to my concern (leaky connection) upon re installation. Same question to you about removal/replacement of the washer.

Thanks for the helpful input and hopefully we can wrap this up shortly.

l1v3fr33ord1 · 11-10-2020, 05:07 AM

Upinsmoke-

You should be able to buy these today off the shelf at the big orange home improvement store near you:

PEX elbow swivel, brass: $4.17
Oetiker clamps, bag of 10: $5.32
Oetiker clamp tool: $62.56 or this one: $45.00
PEX cutter: $14.98 or this one: $9.97

The swivel listed comes with a conical rubber washer, so you get the same sealing as you would on the existing plastic elbow.

There are still other configurations for a test rig. Some don't require PEX tools. I just listed the ones I know are generally available and mimic what you already have.

As far as the "yellow" washers go, I have removed my share from damaged PEX fittings, and will try to use them again in matching fittings, if needed. I recommend against trying to replace the washer in a fitting that is not known to be leaking due to a failed washer.

I suspect you'll not have a leak caused by the elbow. They usually snug up (hand-tight) and the washer (even an "old" one) seals against leaks. My coach is older than yours, and I have yet to have one of the original fittings leak when I've loosened and tightened them multiple times.

The trouble some folks get into is that- seeing a leak- they use a tool on a plastic fitting. That almost guarantees the fitting will crack.

Upinsmoke · 11-10-2020, 03:30 PM

Thanks, I'll check out the tools - may just have to keep some of that on hand in case of a problem on the road sometime.

So today I had a successful test of the toilet,and most importantly the male thread attached to the toilet. While my test rig leaked a little, there was no leak at the toilet connection.

I agree, and hope we're both right about the female connection not leaking. Once the toilet is reinstalled, (tomorrow?) if time and energy permit, instead testing it with water, I may apply low pressure air (like for winterizing) and the do a bubble test on the connection.

Thanks for all of the help. I'll post the final outcome once I get it finished up. Just as a point of information, getting the foot treadle handle off is the hardest/scariest part of the job.

Rick