Booster switch has quit working

[GWayne]

Hi All

The booster switch on My MH quit working this spring. When the switch is activated I can hear a clunk?? noise in a black box located in the left rear storage box by the inverter that is labelled " Battery Mode solenoid and relays". The fact I hear something happening when the switch is operated leads me to believe that the solenoid is working and the problem is somewhere else. I am guessing at this point a loose connection somewhere. But I don't know enough about the system and would appreciate it if anyone has any suggestion that would shorten my search for the problem
Thanks
Wayne Ridsdale

[ChasA]

Those solenoids are usually the failure point. The contacts inside fail to make contact. Get access to the solenoid and put a voltmeter connected to the two large terminals. You'll see a voltage indicating the difference between your chassis battery and your house battery. Now have someone press the switch. If the solenoid is working, you'll see the meter read zero-- there is no difference because the two terminals are connected. If the meter reading doesn't change, the solenoid is bad.
Good luck.

[Heating man]

just because they click does not mean they are working mine clicked but did not make contact. I replaced and now OK

[GWayne]

Thanks this all make sense now and especially after I found this link posted just the other day from RSteele

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/boos...it-295122.html

Wayne Ridsdale

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by GWayne

Hi All

The booster switch on My MH quit working this spring. When the switch is activated I can hear a clunk?? noise in a black box located in the left rear storage box by the inverter that is labelled " Battery Mode solenoid and relays". The fact I hear something happening when the switch is operated leads me to believe that the solenoid is working and the problem is somewhere else. I am guessing at this point a loose connection somewhere. But I don't know enough about the system and would appreciate it if anyone has any suggestion that would shorten my search for the problem
Thanks
Wayne Ridsdale

Wayne,
We have the sister ship to yours only, it's the 36GD, '04 Horizon with C-7 330HP CAT. Yes, that battery boost solenoid is in that rear, shore power compartment, behind a removable panel. It sits right along side the house battery disconnect solenoid. Now, you don't say how long you've owned the coach and, how many miles are on it. But, while those solenoids are known to fail, it's not as often as some think. We got between 10 and 11 years out of ours.

We purchased ours 5 years ago and, it had 40K on the clock at that time. It now has 66K on it. I don't know if you know it or not but, that solenoid has a DUAL roll to play. Yes, #1 is the battery boost part which, links the house batteries to the chassis batteries so that you get all the power possible to crank your engine over.

The second roll it plays is, through different wiring, it closes and links your alternator to charge the house batteries. Now, here's the deal. That solenoid can be purchased in many places. And, based on how long it lasted before it failed, you can get one on Amazon for about $49.00 or so.

But, many on here have advocated purchasing either the same one or, one close to it, with SILVER CONTACTS. The factory ones use copper contacts. I personally don't think that copper's all that bad especially since mine lasted almost 11 years.

I removed mine, dissected it and, cleaned the copper contacts which, were not very bad at all. A little sandpaper and a dremel tool and, it was good as new. It lasted for almost 2 years and it started giving me trouble on a trip we were just on. Well, I figured what the heck, I'll just buy a new one. So, when we got home a week ago, I ordered up a new one, identical to that one, only with silver contacts.

That solenoid ran me $89.00 on ebay. I just installed it today. It's not a very hard job at all.

IN yours, yes, you can hear the solenoid closing. But, it's the contacts are not making good enough contact with each other to conduct the high current needed for either of it's operations. Not many would do what I did and disassemble it and clean them. I did it because I could. I like goofing with things like that.

Anyway, if you plan on doing the repair or, replacement, ask away, it's an easy job. I've done it several times without disconnecting any batteries. You just have to be careful and tape up the hot leads when removing them from each terminal. And, either take a picture or, write down where the wires go. There's not many of them. Good luck.
Scott
P.S. Here's some pics of both the new one and the old one. The old one, is on the left and, new on on the right.

And, if I can do this right, you'll see pics of it apart and what the contacts look like.
Scott

[GWayne]

Thanks Scott
It looks like fun. I will tackle it this aft.
I bought the RV last fall. It now has 65,000 miles. So according to your experience the solenoid might be original.
Wayne Ridsdale

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by GWayne

Thanks Scott
It looks like fun. I will tackle it this aft.
I bought the RV last fall. It now has 65,000 miles. So according to your experience the solenoid might be original.
Wayne Ridsdale

You're quite welcome Sir. Here's a closeup of the new one. It really doesn't have any indication that it's got "Silver" contacts. It was sold as it did and, has a higher price than it's brother with Copper Contacts. So, I took a chance and purchased the more expensive one. The only thing I see in the picture that's different from the original one is "CS" on the name plate. Maybe that means "Contacts, Silver", who the heck knows?
Scott

[tderonne]

114-1211-010 has copper contacts.
114-1211-020 has silver contacts.

http://www.trombetta.com/images/pdfs...ear-family.pdf

[cbeierl]

In addition to switching to the solenoid with silver contacts, I added a couple of resistors to reduce the pull-in voltage slightly, as detailed (with pictures) in this (long) old thread: Yet another solenoid bites the dust!

The silver contact one was my second replacement between 2005 and 2008. It's been in place with the resistors since then and still working fine 8 years later.

[Journey cat]

I happened to stumble upon this tread Its just where I'm at at present .
Recently I purchases an 05 Winnebago Journey model 34H from an older fellow in his 80's
Its a very nicely equipped with a 350 Cat and full body paint with only 28K on the clock
Although it needed major cleaning
I can not avoid saying its been riddled with electrical issues
Here is where I'm at at present
The battery's where in need of charging , doing so I removed them which led to other problems ill get to later in another tread
I charged the battery and have reinstalled them keeping them on a couple Deltran battery tenders .
I can hear the Aux solenoid click Upon further investigation I found the switch in this condition as it did not release as it should I guess the PO never heard of Crazy Glue
With that said Im ready to attack the solenoid itself Does it come apart with just removing the screws ? Or will it take other tasks . In past years I have opened many of all kinds having boats in my past .

[YC1]

Journey Cat, I believe you need to drill out four rivets and unsolder the coil. You should see the same exact voltage on each side of the coil when activated. If both banks of batteries are fully charged you won't be able to really tell if it is bad. However, I have changed mine twice. Yes I rebuilt one and keep it for a spare. They can be very hot to the touch if left on a long time so be careful to not scorch your fingers.

As many of these as I have seen bad I believe they probably should be mounted with the large terminals up. With them down and the solenoid heating and cooling they can draw in tiny bits of moist air. There is no way for that moisture to escape when mounted this way. Mine was full of green stuff the first time I took it apart and it was only two years old.

[tderonne]

Some info on the switch:
Carling Contura Rocker Switches Explained - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum

And some info about taking them apart:
http://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-e...-switch.html#b

[Journey cat]

Originally Posted by YC1

Journey Cat, I believe you need to drill out four rivets and unsolder the coil. You should see the same exact voltage on each side of the coil when activated. If both banks of batteries are fully charged you won't be able to really tell if it is bad. However, I have changed mine twice. Yes I rebuilt one and keep it for a spare. They can be very hot to the touch if left on a long time so be careful to not scorch your fingers.

As many of these as I have seen bad I believe they probably should be mounted with the large terminals up. With them down and the solenoid heating and cooling they can draw in tiny bits of moist air. There is no way for that moisture to escape when mounted this way. Mine was full of green stuff the first time I took it apart and it was only two years old.

Thank you for the response
I did see you post on another tread

" Tombones, if you are positive about which solenoid is supposed to control the circuit just put the voltmeter on the small leads and tell us what you see. Measure from ground to each of the small terminals. Do the same on the large ones. You could have easily blown a fuse while changing it and just have a new self inflicted wound. "

Could you explain further ? At present battery are out again . But while in I was seeing a similar voltage . Which has me confused as the switch that activates is momentary . That said hoe are contacts released when not in use .
As I did not check them while battery were in .
Lets not confuse the two switches & solonides . Because this one with the two fuses has a momentary switch also and Im curious as to how that circuit works also
__________________

[YC1]

Tim,
Thanks for the links to those switches. Those are outstanding and I saved them as pdf files and will share them in the future. I'm an ET and these switches can be quite complicated when trying to find a replacement. Those pictures are worth a thousand words.

[Journey cat]

Upon further inspection .
It appears this one has been worked on in the past .
can any one enlighten me as to how the booster solenoid with the 2 fuses works ?

[YC1]

The solenoid with the fuses is a latching solenoid. That is, it does not take a constant voltage to keep it engaged which keeps it cool and saves any extra current drain. They too fail often enough and are commonly bypassed. Do a search on "salesman switch" in the little google rectangle above and you will find pages.

[RSteele]

Replaced the Trombetta solenoid in my coach a couple weeks ago and posted a rather lengthy description on how to do it and test it. The Trombetta solenoid with the silver contacts is $49 on Amazon. You have to look the vendor I bought mine from was murcal in Palmdale, ca. There are others sellers ranging from $75 to $95. Fixed my problem. There are also better but more expensive options. Winnebago is now using a different system without a solenoid but you can use it on yours. I believe it is about $150. If my trombetta goes out again I will use the new unit, I forget the name of it right now but blue sea systems makes one also. Adding the diodes to the Trombetta also has worked for some folks.

[RSteele]

Here is the post from a couple weeks ago. The new system Winnebago uses is made by precision circuits and is $155.
Winnebago owners, this is my second Winne DP that has had the boost/charging solenoid stop working. Searching on the forum I noticed that this is a common problem so I'm posting to hopefully make someone's head scratcher easier. There is a fairly long detailed post from about 8 years ago on the same issue. The battery boost switch on the dash will obviously connect the house and engine battery banks together for added power when the engine batteries are low or its cold outside it will help turn the engine over faster. The same solenoid also and more importantly lets the engine alternator charge the house batteries while you are driving. You wouldn't automatically know there is a problem because everything will work fine unless you are using the inverter or other power drains while driving and the coach batteries all the sudden are low or dead. So to test for this start the engine with the coach unplugged, generator off, then press the battery monitor on the one place. The engine and the coach batteries should show near the same voltage mine is 13.8 but it should be somewhere in the hi 13's close to 14. If your coach batteries are not charging but the engine batteries are the solenoid is most likely bad. You can press the boost button 4-5 times rapidly and it will sometimes knock the oxidization off the contacts and start functioning again. Mine will not. The root cause according to people more knowledgeable than I is that the solenoid is 12 volt and the alternator puts out close to 14 volts. This apparently heats up the contacts causing failure eventually. The solenoid is manufactured by Trombetta 114-1200-010. There is an upgraded version of the same thing it has silver contacts instead of copper and will last longer. It is $49 on Amazon if you go through Winnebago parts I was quoted over $100. Not sure all coaches the new coaches have the same system but my 04 Journey and 07 Vectra do. On the Vectra it is in the last baggage compartment on the passenger side right in front of the A/C unit behind a metal cover on the left side, it is labeled. On the Journey It is in the very front of the coach behind the hood in a metal box. There are two solenoids on both coaches the smaller one is the coach battery disconnect solenoid, it has smaller wires going to it to tell them apart. The boost/charging solenoid has large battery cables going to it mine are 4/0 coming from the coach batteries red in color black coming from the start batteries probably 1/0 size. The boost solenoid is also the place to connect your trickle start if you don't have one. My 04 did not and I added it best $40 upgrade I did to it. Now the same company makes the ampl start which is a charger/maintainer whereas the trickle start is just a maintainer and supposedly won't charge from dead. There are probably others too. Easy to hook up 3 wires and good instructions included. The 07 Vectra has one installed from the factory. Somewhere between 04 and 07 Winne started installing this feature. For those that don't know the trickle start is just a small box that takes a little power from the coach batteries when they are charging and gives it to the start batteries so they are always topped off and ready to go. Easy to test solenoid if you have a meter. Start coach measure voltage on the small pins on the solenoid with engine running small posts should have alternator voltage up near 14 volts, this tells solenoid to close and bridge the two battery banks, yellow wire should be + white should be -. Test engine side batteries smaller set of wires on big posts should have near 14 volts. Test coach battery side should have same as engine side if solenoid is working if lower solenoid is bad. When you go to change the solenoid disconnect coach battery "out" wires and engine battery wires. It may only be 12 volts but there is a lot of amperage coming from those batteries. You do not want to touch any metal with them there will be sparks better to disconnect the batteries and be safe, you can be injured. Remove any jewelry especially rings when working with electricity, I know a man that almost lost a finger because if a wedding band and a 12v battery bank. You can weld with that much current so I can't stress disconnecting the batteries enough. I see you can lower the voltage going to the solenoid coil by using resistors or diodes but I'm going to install it as it was, it lasted almost ten years so I will hope for another 10 out of this one. There are other manufacturers like blue sea systems that make alternatives but at $160 I'm going to use the factory replacement and not have to worry about changing anything. If the new solenoid doesn't last I may go with a more robust replacement such as a blue sea systems unit. Hope this helps someone, it's been a learning expieriance for me.
__________________

[tderonne]

I believe this is the "system" Winnebago now uses:



Still a solenoid (not sure exactly what one), just has bidirectional control.

Precision Circuits Battery Isolation Manager

[Journey cat]

Originally Posted by Journey cat

Thank you for the response
I did see you post on another tread

" Tombones, if you are positive about which solenoid is supposed to control the circuit just put the voltmeter on the small leads and tell us what you see. Measure from ground to each of the small terminals. Do the same on the large ones. You could have easily blown a fuse while changing it and just have a new self inflicted wound. "

Could you explain further ? At present battery are out again . But while in I was seeing a similar voltage . Which has me confused as the switch that activates is momentary . That said hoe are contacts released when not in use .
As I did not check them while battery were in .
Lets not confuse the two switches & solonides . Because this one with the two fuses has a momentary switch also and Im curious as to how that circuit works also
__________________

Bringing it to the top .
Can any one tell me if the salesman switch should make any noise from making contact ? Similar to the Aux boost solenoid .
It appears mine may be bad . As I have the same voltage to the heavy cables .
No matter if its on or off . Although I can read voltage from the 2 small wires .
One at a time , when the dash switch is toggled to the approiate mode .
So its always on . My guess is its bad
Can these be cleaned also ?
On another note I did get a silver contact replacement solenoid for the Aux start