Can It Be the Coax Cable

[Jim202259KL]

Originally Posted by bigb

Thanks Richard, I did find the splitter behind an electrical outlet in the closet. I'm just trying to figure out why no continuity thru switch and waiting to see what happens with the OP since we are both having the same issue, unless we are not having an issue and it is the fault of the park systems

I think we have different issues (unless it's the park). I'm fine from cable input outlet to the tv, but not fine from the pedestal to the cable input (or perhaps it's not good from the campground office to the pedestal). It seems to me that your issue is in the van wiring (or the signal at the pedestal).

[Jim202259KL]

Originally Posted by bigb

What I don't fully understand is if a coax is open, or shorted how it affects the picture. I thought a digital signal was either all or none whether it's OTA or CATV. I also thought an open cable would result in zero reception and a "no signal" message but we both were able to get a picture that didn't pixelate, just snowy. I thought a weak digital signal would pixelate but this snow thing confuses me as it's an analog thing, or so I thought. Are there still CATV providers out there broadcasting analog? Maybe some of the TV signal experts can chime in.

I was told, and I've read, that if there is a short between the center wire and the outer shield it can degrade the signal and make it snowy. That's why I need to check my van to pedestal cable.

[Morich]

The idea of the digital signal being good or no good is one that I can relate to what I have done on other digital signals but not something I know much about when it gets to the TV.
My last TV work was with tubes!!
The idea of the signal is pretty simple as it is a form of code like Morse code only much faster. Also the same as your keyboard!

It is a code using what might be called ones and zeros. Ones being higher voltage and zeros being lower but the level of that voltage can be pretty much any level and doesn't even have to be all positive or all negative voltages. Morse code uses dots and dashes to form their code with longer or shorter pulses. Many of the newer digital codes uses pulses of higher or lower voltage so as long as the "decoder" can tell if the pluse is high or low, it can "read" that signal.
Just as a Morse code person had to be able to hear the pulses enough to tell if it was a long or short pulse, the newer decoder has to get enough signal to tell if it defines it as a high or low. In using fiber cable, it has to decide whether it is light on or light off!

Where it gets tricky is when the signal of whatever form, gets too degraded for the decoder end to decide for sure what it wants to call that pulse. In really super good systems there are plans made for when the signal gets sloppy and the system can kind of "fake" it for a few pulses if there is something temporary like lightning that changes the signal. But I suspect our TV is not that high level quality stuff, so when there is a problem, it may just pass that problem on as a bad signal by "guessing" at what is meant.
Never worked on Digital TV at the end but I would guess that we get snow when the signal is not good and the TV is just filling some of those dots on the screen with what it is "guessing" should be there! If/when the signal gets really too bad, it gives up and says, "no more guessing" and puts a notice on the screen!

The difference in analog and digital is that the analog passed way more of those bad signals through as it uses a system of reading the voltage levels on AM or Frequency changes on FM, so things that caused the signal to be degraded were often more likely to pass through to us.

On digital, the changes in the signal level is not read at the top of the pulse but down lower so that the minor changes in voltage are not read, just whether it is enough to get past the minimum required to be called high or low.
For simple, think of your signal set to be 5 volts when exactly right but you decide if it is high or low when it passes 3 volts or not? Things that change the voltage from 5 to being 3.5 or 7 make no difference as the decoder still sees what it needs to decide if it is voltage there or not!
But on our cheaper signals like TV, things are much more prone to "guessing" when the signal gets down too far.
So the office TV is likely to be much closer than the ped. way out where we use it and it gets much less guessing than we may get.

Lots of different codes and voltage levels so these numbers are all just pure guesses from a guy standing way out at the end of the line!! My job was never to design the thing, just to keep it from guessing too often.

[Jim202259KL]

Originally Posted by Morich

The idea of the digital signal being good or no good is one that I can relate to what I have done on other digital signals but not something I know much about when it gets to the TV.
My last TV work was with tubes!!
The idea of the signal is pretty simple as it is a form of code like Morse code only much faster. Also the same as your keyboard!

It is a code using what might be called ones and zeros. Ones being higher voltage and zeros being lower but the level of that voltage can be pretty much any level and doesn't even have to be all positive or all negative voltages. Morse code uses dots and dashes to form their code with longer or shorter pulses. Many of the newer digital codes uses pulses of higher or lower voltage so as long as the "decoder" can tell if the pluse is high or low, it can "read" that signal.
Just as a Morse code person had to be able to hear the pulses enough to tell if it was a long or short pulse, the newer decoder has to get enough signal to tell if it defines it as a high or low. In using fiber cable, it has to decide whether it is light on or light off!

Where it gets tricky is when the signal of whatever form, gets too degraded for the decoder end to decide for sure what it wants to call that pulse. In really super good systems there are plans made for when the signal gets sloppy and the system can kind of "fake" it for a few pulses if there is something temporary like lightning that changes the signal. But I suspect our TV is not that high level quality stuff, so when there is a problem, it may just pass that problem on as a bad signal by "guessing" at what is meant.
Never worked on Digital TV at the end but I would guess that we get snow when the signal is not good and the TV is just filling some of those dots on the screen with what it is "guessing" should be there! If/when the signal gets really too bad, it gives up and says, "no more guessing" and puts a notice on the screen!

The difference in analog and digital is that the analog passed way more of those bad signals through as it uses a system of reading the voltage levels on AM or Frequency changes on FM, so things that caused the signal to be degraded were often more likely to pass through to us.

On digital, the changes in the signal level is not read at the top of the pulse but down lower so that the minor changes in voltage are not read, just whether it is enough to get past the minimum required to be called high or low.
For simple, think of your signal set to be 5 volts when exactly right but you decide if it is high or low when it passes 3 volts or not? Things that change the voltage from 5 to being 3.5 or 7 make no difference as the decoder still sees what it needs to decide if it is voltage there or not!
But on our cheaper signals like TV, things are much more prone to "guessing" when the signal gets down too far.
So the office TV is likely to be much closer than the ped. way out where we use it and it gets much less guessing than we may get.

Lots of different codes and voltage levels so these numbers are all just pure guesses from a guy standing way out at the end of the line!! My job was never to design the thing, just to keep it from guessing too often.

Great explanation. I suppose I should research the make and model of the tv in the Travato. Yet any tv or monitor can only deal with what's being fed into it by a cable box, a computer, etc. Sometimes the problem is with the cable company (and up pops "we are having video problems" --- every now and then). Cable companies place amplifiers along the route (and sometimes at the entry to a structure if there are multiple feeds). I doubt there are any amplifiers once the signal passes the campground office.

When I turned on the MaxxAir, lines began to show up on the tv (somewhat diagonally), which tells me that something that should be shielded isn't. Doesn't happen with the over-the-air antenna but with the cable.

Ever learning, ever fixing . . .

[Morich]

When we look at the electronic "stew" we live in, I'm sometimes surprised any of it works!
Remember when there were so many verified reports/ incidents of cars suddenly going to high speed and not being able to be stopped and now we never hear of the problem?

Really sounded like a problem with the electronics in the ignition and controls for the fuel injection were not shielded well enough!
I'm in favor of not buying any self driving cars until they work out a few bugs in that idea.
The idea of driving 70 MPH and the guy in the truck next to you keying his mike so that your car thought it said to turn left?

[Jim202259KL]

Originally Posted by Morich

When we look at the electronic "stew" we live in, I'm sometimes surprised any of it works!
Remember when there were so many verified reports/ incidents of cars suddenly going to high speed and not being able to be stopped and now we never hear of the problem?

Really sounded like a problem with the electronics in the ignition and controls for the fuel injection were not shielded well enough!
I'm in favor of not buying any self driving cars until they work out a few bugs in that idea.
The idea of driving 70 MPH and the guy in the truck next to you keying his mike so that your car thought it said to turn left?

It is amazing how much RF, etc, surrounds us. If it were in the visible spectrum we'd be looking at a stew of confusion. As for self-driving cars, no thank you. My car has a number of features designed to "assist" me, and if I paid attention to all of its messages I'd be dead. The lane departure assist often confuses stripe patching as a lane marker, can't figure out construction area lane shifts, the speed limit indicator retains the speed of one road when turning onto another until it "sees" a speed limit sign (and often misses them, especially if they are blocked by foliage or a large truck). Because technology does some things well, some designers think it can do everything well.

[bigb]

Well Winegard support was useless, I asked if there should be continuity thru the Winegard switch and they replied "we don't do continuity testing on our switches" . I found a 100 foot roll of coax in the garage and ran a line out there and hooked it up and got a crystal clear picture, so it looks like mine was the fault of the park.
For future reference when testing continuity thru the Winegard switch it will read "open" but when a signal is applied apparently it passes thru.
Hope you get yours figured out.

[Jim202259KL]

Originally Posted by bigb

Well Winegard support was useless, I asked if there should be continuity thru the Winegard switch and they replied "we don't do continuity testing on our switches" . I found a 100 foot roll of coax in the garage and ran a line out there and hooked it up and got a crystal clear picture, so it looks like mine was the fault of the park.
For future reference when testing continuity thru the Winegard switch it will read "open" but when a signal is applied apparently it passes thru.
Hope you get yours figured out.

That is surprising that they don't know a characteristic of a product they use (or perhaps manufacture). Glad to hear you don't need to deal with the wiring in the van.

Waiting for the multimeter, then I'll check the cable. If it's ok, I'll have to take one of the cable boxes from the house out to the van and run a cable.

[Winterbagoal]

Is there a switch plate located somewhere inside a cabinet, or otherwise near the TV like the one pictured on page 8-2 in the 2022 Travato 59GL/KL downloadable Owner's Manual, under the paragraph titled TV SIGNAL AMPLIFIER? There might/should be one. It has a little button on it, to energize the TV antenna signal amplifier. While it doesn't specifiy in the 58KL manual that it should be powered "off" to receive cable input signals, in my 2018 Navion OM it does state it specifically "To receive a cable signal, turn off the TV
Signal Amplifier". If you can find it, can you try toggling it on/off while connected to the pedestal cable TV input? I had the same problem of snowy signal the first time I connected to CG park cable TV, and switching the antenna signal booster off, fixed it.
Hail Mary?

[Morich]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

Is there a switch plate located somewhere inside a cabinet, or otherwise near the TV like the one pictured on page 8-2 in the 2022 Travato 59GL/KL downloadable Owner's Manual, under the paragraph titled TV SIGNAL AMPLIFIER? There might/should be one. It has a little button on it, to energize the TV antenna signal amplifier. While it doesn't specifiy in the 58KL manual that it should be powered "off" to receive cable input signals, in my 2018 Navion OM it does state it specifically "To receive a cable signal, turn off the TV
Signal Amplifier". If you can find it, can you try toggling it on/off while connected to the pedestal cable TV input? I had the same problem of snowy signal the first time I connected to CG park cable TV, and switching the antenna signal booster off, fixed it.
Hail Mary?

On this idea, in case it has not been found yet?

The parts drawing does show location for the tiny little switch above the TV as in these snips?

[bigb]

Jim mentioned in his first post that he did turn the amplifier switch off. (first sentence of OP)

[Morich]

Thinking about the testing for continuity?

It may be a case of how we each are thinking of continuity and testing. There are times when signals are passed through something like a set of coils, somewhat like done with transformers only they are called inductors, if the old theory brain still works??? Just one idea of why they would not test continuity as we might ask about it?

Passing a current/signal through from a to b can "induce" a signal from c to d.

But if one were to test for continuity from a-b to c-d, there is no continuity! So when you asked about it, they were just not thinking at all what you were asking and their answer of not testing continuity is likely true, but they may have done testing for the signal getting through or as a last thing, they probably test the whole unit operation.

Something like us asking if a fuel line is tested? They may say no but they do test that the lawnmower starts and runs?

This communications stuff gets us into all kinds of trouble, even with our wife!

[Jim202259KL]

Originally Posted by bigb

Jim mentioned in his first post that he did turn the amplifier switch off. (first sentence of OP)

Definitely did. Even toggled it on and off. When I ran the cable from the pedestal directly to the TV, I bypassed everything, including that switch, and still got a bad picture with much snow.

[Jim202259KL]

Originally Posted by Morich

Thinking about the testing for continuity?

It may be a case of how we each are thinking of continuity and testing. There are times when signals are passed through something like a set of coils, somewhat like done with transformers only they are called inductors, if the old theory brain still works??? Just one idea of why they would not test continuity as we might ask about it?

Passing a current/signal through from a to b can "induce" a signal from c to d.

But if one were to test for continuity from a-b to c-d, there is no continuity! So when you asked about it, they were just not thinking at all what you were asking and their answer of not testing continuity is likely true, but they may have done testing for the signal getting through or as a last thing, they probably test the whole unit operation.

Something like us asking if a fuel line is tested? They may say no but they do test that the lawnmower starts and runs?

This communications stuff gets us into all kinds of trouble, even with our wife!

Treating a-b as the inside wire in the cable and c-d as the outside shield, if I don't get continuity from a to b I know the inside wire is broken. If I get continuity from a to c (or d) or b to c (or d) then I know there is a short, enough to mangle the signal. It also could be that the cable, which is about 10 years old is an RG-59 and thus will get replaced. I haven't been out to the van to check because I've been busy with other stuff (and not certain the cable will be labeled).

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by Morich

On this idea, in case it has not been found yet?

The parts drawing does show location for the tiny little switch above the TV as in these snips?

@Morich - Damn Richard, you're good. Exactly the switch plate I was talking about. TY.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by bigb

Jim mentioned in his first post that he did turn the amplifier switch off. (first sentence of OP)

@bigb - Just wanted to be sure we're talking apples to apples, I also have an antenna attenuator unit (by King) located on the ceiling directly underneath the rooftop manually adjustable antenna. It also has a power switch, and flashing blue lights, and a manual rotating antenna aiming dial.
I see that the OP has confirmed he switched the brown switch pate button to off. Both "off" would be best.
That's what I get for coming late to the party.
I said it was a Hail Mary.

[Jim202259KL]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

@bigb - Just wanted to be sure we're talking apples to apples, I also have an antenna attenuator unit (by King) located on the ceiling directly underneath the rooftop manually adjustable antenna. It also has a power switch, and flashing blue lights, and a manual rotating antenna aiming dial.
I see that the OP has confirmed he switched the brown switch pate button to off. Both "off" would be best.
That's what I get for coming late to the party.
I said it was a Hail Mary.

My 2016 Travato 59K had the manually adjustable antenna you describe. It was just behind the front seats. So I had two switches to turn on for that antenna. The 2022 59KL antenna is at the back, is omnidirectional (no manual adjustment), so just the one switch on the bottom of the cabinet above the tv, to turn on to send power to the outside antenna. That antenna works well, sends a great picture to the tv when in range of a broadcast location.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by Jim202259KL

My 2016 Travato 59K had the manually adjustable antenna you describe. It was just behind the front seats. So I had two switches to turn on for that antenna. The 2022 59KL antenna is at the back, is omnidirectional (no manual adjustment), so just the one switch on the bottom of the cabinet above the tv, to turn on to send power to the outside antenna. That antenna works well, sends a great picture to the tv when in range of a broadcast location.

Copy that. I think it's probably overkill to have a directional antenna on these things. A decent omnidirectional would be fine for me.
Hope you figure it out.

[AFChap]

I get a "snowy" signal on my rear TV in some locations, but not in others. Turning on a fluorescent light in the rig can make it worse.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by AFChap

I get a "snowy" signal on my rear TV in some locations, but not in others. Turning on a fluorescent light in the rig can make it worse.

That's part of that "electronic stew" we were talking about. Lots of things put out lots of different waves of energy that can get into lots of stuff we use, TV being one where we can see it happen.