Can It Be the Coax Cable

Jim202259KL · 07-20-2022, 10:42 AM

First time with the Travato 59KL at a campground. Hooked up to cable, turned off roof antenna amplifier, did the channel scan, found the 22 channels, but all were with snow and some were worse than that. Tried the outdoor antenna (which I had tried while at home), and it worked though the remoteness of the campground and the topography (in a valley) meant some weak signals and pixelation.

Back to cable, tried the pedestal on the adjacent site (no one was there), same result, lots of snow and worse. Even tried a digital tv signal booster, no improvement.

So I went to the office, noticed the office TV had a perfect picture, explained the dilemma, so the owner brought a tv to where I was parked, connected, got a somewhat better signal though with a bit of snow, nowhere near as bad.

So was it van wiring? Tested that by connecting from the campground pedestal directly to the television, bypassing all the van wiring. Just as bad, with and without the signal booster. So it's not the van wiring.

Campground owner suggested it could be the coax cable. It's the one I used in the previous Travato and it didn't cause that sort of problem. I know a coax cable can be bad "out of the box," but can one that isn't bad go bad?

Thoughts?

GaryKowal1 · 07-20-2022, 11:25 AM

Take your ohm meter and put one lead on center wire and other on screw cap. A good cable will read 0. No continuity.

Morich · 07-20-2022, 11:30 AM

Yes, they can certainy go bad but they are also pretty easy to test with a meter as they come down to being simply two wires bound into a special shape to protect the signal better.

When looking at the ends of the coax, there is the outer metal and an inner pin. Those are the two ends of two wires, one made into a mesh form to act as a shield of sorts to protect the signal on the inner wire better.

To test the wires, we need to test for continuity from one end center to the other end center for good continuity. In other words make sure there is very little resistance from one end pin to the other end pin?

Then do the same test on the outer metal of the connectors to make sure it has good end to end continuity.

Third test is to check for infinite resistance ( no resistance reading?) from the inner to the outer as we do not want them shorting together!

When a coax is bad, it is most often at the connectors as a bit of the mesh can get in the wrong spot but that is assuming the coax has not been abused somewhere along the length. No mashing or major kinking! Not good to close them in a door!

But then there are hints that it is a coax problem but not the one you own but the campground owns the fault as the signal was bad on their coax! Interesting that they were not able to get a good signal when they tested at the ped?

The problem is often just a matter of distance it runs OR it can be a simple connection along the route which has begun to corrode and not give a good connection, like from where they connect at the office and where you connect at the ped.
Notice how grimey and corroded the metal looks at the ped and multiply that going through several connections along the path from where they are connected and you try to get it?
Like any other electrical connection, a little bit of grime in several locations can all add up to not enough signal at the far end!

It "could" be you have a problem but sounds more like they do, assuming I understand the testing.

Jim202259KL · 07-20-2022, 01:02 PM

I will do some testing. The connections on the first pedestal were loose and grimy looking. The second pedestal connection looked better. Neither appeared new shiny clean even though under a weather lid. Now to find my meter. It's here, somewhere. Where? Surely not where it should be. :-)

Wayne M · 07-20-2022, 01:47 PM

Use RG-6 and not RG-59. The 59 has to much loss at some of the CG's

Using a multimeter set to OHMS/Continuity there should be no reading between the shield (outside ring) and center conductor of the cable.

If you need to test between the inside connector and the outside connector, get a wire with an alligator clip or something similar and hook one end to the inside portion you want to check and string the rest outside at the connector. Meter for continuity or no continuity between outer and center conductor.

One fine strand of the shield of the wire, if touching the center conductor when the fitting was applied can cause the conditions you are describing. Even factory made can have an occasional problem.

Good luck.

kmessinger · 07-20-2022, 02:00 PM

Don't do like me. I tried to connect to the outgoing coax on the outside of the KL. Got home and realised the connection is on the Nautilus panel. And now I need some flat coax.

Jim202259KL · 07-20-2022, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne M

Use RG-6 and not RG-59. The 59 has to much loss at some of the CG's

Using a multimeter set to OHMS/Continuity there should be no reading between the shield (outside ring) and center conductor of the cable.

If you need to test between the inside connector and the outside connector, get a wire with an alligator clip or something similar and hook one end to the inside portion you want to check and string the rest outside at the connector. Meter for continuity or no continuity between outer and center conductor.

One fine strand of the shield of the wire, if touching the center conductor when the fitting was applied can cause the conditions you are describing. Even factory made can have an occasional problem.

Good luck.

Thanks. Will do. Need to find the multimeter. Tools and equipment in too many places!

Wayne M · 07-20-2022, 02:27 PM

p.s, both ends of the coax cannot be connected to anything or it will show continuity (short) from the resistance i the device(s).

Morich · 07-20-2022, 02:31 PM

I was thinking of testing a roll ofcoax where it is handy to reach both ends att eh same time.
If you need to test a strip that is installed and hard to reach both ends, a different way will work better.
Look for any resistance reading between the inner and outer first and if none found, then connect the two together at that end and go to the far end to look for continuity between the ends there.
That will first show you have no short circuit between the two wires and then the second will show you have a full from the inner wire to the far end where you have bridged them together and fully back to you. On that second test, you should expect to get some low resistance reading asthere will besome small amount of resistance in just the wire alone but if you get infinite (open) resistance, one of the wire is broken and you will need to find which.

Which method will work best depedns on what and how you are needing to do things.
If you have a coil of coil that is 100 or more feet long, it is smart to test it BEFORE you install it.
But if that coax is already installed and it's 400 feet to the other end, working it a different way is much better! Think first, work second!

Jim202259KL · 07-20-2022, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morich

I was thinking of testing a roll ofcoax where it is handy to reach both ends att eh same time.
If you need to test a strip that is installed and hard to reach both ends, a different way will work better.
Look for any resistance reading between the inner and outer first and if none found, then connect the two together at that end and go to the far end to look for continuity between the ends there.
That will first show you have no short circuit between the two wires and then the second will show you have a full from the inner wire to the far end where you have bridged them together and fully back to you. On that second test, you should expect to get some low resistance reading asthere will besome small amount of resistance in just the wire alone but if you get infinite (open) resistance, one of the wire is broken and you will need to find which.

Which method will work best depedns on what and how you are needing to do things.
If you have a coil of coil that is 100 or more feet long, it is smart to test it BEFORE you install it.
But if that coax is already installed and it's 400 feet to the other end, working it a different way is much better! Think first, work second!

The cable in question is loose, one end to connect to the pedestal, the other to the input connector on the van. So testing it will be easy, as both ends can be within reach at the same time. If it tests ok then that will mean back to square one.

bigb · 07-20-2022, 04:51 PM

We had this exact same issue at a park in Springerville, AZ. We have only tried our cable about 3 times and it never worked but this last time it did work but was snowy. I just tested my outside cable and again from my outside hookup to my booster/switch, all passed. Next I'm going to test from the booster to each TV to see if maybe there's an issue in the switch but first I need to go buy an F connector tool, I can't get my hands in there to unscrew the cable from the TV. I did my testing with a Klein Tools vdv501-098 cable tester that I had left from my electrician days, checks for proper wiring of voice, data and coax although on coax it just checks for shorts and opens. The quality of the cable they used in my rig is pretty low grade stuff even for a 2011 install. Also I have no idea where to look for the splitter, one coax leaves the switch into the wall but I don't have any visible splitter that I can see.

If everything checks out I'll assume it was the park. I could test it here at home but we have Direct TV and I'd have to run a line out to the garage and hook up box first.

Jim202259KL · 07-20-2022, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigb

We had this exact same issue at a park in Springerville, AZ. We have only tried our cable about 3 times and it never worked but this last time it did work but was snowy. I just tested my outside cable and again from my outside hookup to my booster/switch, all passed. Next I'm going to test from the booster to each TV to see if maybe there's an issue in the switch but first I need to go buy an F connector tool, I can't get my hands in there to unscrew the cable from the TV. I did my testing with a Klein Tools vdv501-098 cable tester that I had left from my electrician days, checks for proper wiring of voice, data and coax although on coax it just checks for shorts and opens. The quality of the cable they used in my rig is pretty low grade stuff even for a 2011 install. Also I have no idea where to look for the splitter, one coax leaves the switch into the wall but I don't have any visible splitter that I can see.

If everything checks out I'll assume it was the park. I could test it here at home but we have Direct TV and I'd have to run a line out to the garage and hook up box first.

fixing inside wiring can be a challenge, as a good bit of it, including splitters, are behind walls or enclosed cabinets. In 2011 they may have still been using RG-59. Not sure how to figure that out unless the cable is marked somewhere at intervals. If the outside cable is good, then it's inside, and that's not fun. If testing at home is cumbersome, try another campground or two. If there are any close by they might let you do a test for a short less-than-an-hour stay for a small fee (some revenue rather than zero should appeal to most campgrounds if there are unoccupied spots).

bigb · 07-20-2022, 06:21 PM

Mine is baffling me, it tests OK up to the Winegard switch and completely open after the switch, so thinking it was the switch I replaced it with a new one that came with my Winegard antenna when I replaced it last year, still open after the switch with switch in the CATV position (OFF).

Any luck on yours? You can test it with a multi meter even if you can't reach both ends, just connect the inner wire to the connector with a short alligator lead.

Jim202259KL · 07-20-2022, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigb

Mine is baffling me, it tests OK up to the Winegard switch and completely open after the switch, so thinking it was the switch I replaced it with a new one that came with my Winegard antenna when I replaced it last year, still open after the switch with switch in the CATV position (OFF).

Any luck on yours? You can test it with a multi meter even if you can't reach both ends, just connect the inner wire to the connector with a short alligator lead.

If you connect directly from pedestal to tv, and it's ok, then the problem is between the input connection and the tv. And if it's ok up to the switch, it could be the switch, but with the new (presumably ok) switch, then it would be the cable between the switch and the tv. Perhaps during installation of something else a nail went into it, or it got crimped.

Mine has bad signal when connected from pedestal direct to tv, bypassing the van wiring and switch. So I need to test the cable. Found the multimeter. It's not working so I need to get another one (mine is 25 years old so time for an upgrade).

bigb · 07-20-2022, 07:22 PM

In looking at your initial post you may not have an issue. When the office brought a TV and hooked it up outside you said the picture was a little better but not much, it could've been a weak signal on that branch and by hooking up the test TV outside it eliminated the connections and splitter in your van and allowed for a slightly better signal. Each connection point causes a bit of signal loss. (I am not clear though if they hooked up the test TV to your cable or theirs)
One way you can test your exterior cable is bring it in the house and hook it up to one of your TVs if you have a coax based TV provider.
I sent an email to Winegard Tech support about mine, will see what they say tomorrow.

Morich · 07-20-2022, 07:26 PM

Quote: Big B
Also I have no idea where to look for the splitter, one coax leaves the switch into the wall but I don't have any visible splitter that I can see.

If everything checks out I'll assume it was the park. I could test it here at home but we have Direct TV and I'd have to run a line out to the garage and hook up box first.[/QUOTE]

Maybe a little help on this as I did a check of the parts drawings for the TV here:

https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/2011/17537903.htm

It does not show any splitter as such but does show one dual coax at the one nearer the front and one single at the back, I might guess there are no hidden splitters to chase??

But there is also some infopossible on this drawing-if you can match your TV setup with one of the drawings as there are color codes on the coax ( supposed to be!!). But I also do not see a two TV setup without splitter, so only trust it so far as it works, right?

Maybe some help or maybe just more to confuse us?

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_110138.pdf

bigb · 07-20-2022, 07:29 PM

Thanks Richard, I did find the splitter behind an electrical outlet in the closet. I'm just trying to figure out why no continuity thru switch and waiting to see what happens with the OP since we are both having the same issue, unless we are not having an issue and it is the fault of the park systems

Jim202259KL · 07-20-2022, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigb

In looking at your initial post you may not have an issue. When the office brought a TV and hooked it up outside you said the picture was a little better but not much, it could've been a weak signal on that branch and by hooking up the test TV outside it eliminated the connections and splitter in your van and allowed for a slightly better signal. Each connection point causes a bit of signal loss. (I am not clear though if they hooked up the test TV to your cable or theirs)
One way you can test your exterior cable is bring it in the house and hook it up to one of your TVs if you have a coax based TV provider.
I sent an email to Winegard Tech support about mine, will see what they say tomorrow.

They used their cable. I'd bring my cable inside except that the new cable box has an HDMI connection to the TV's HDMI input.

bigb · 07-20-2022, 07:56 PM

What I don't fully understand is if a coax is open, or shorted how it affects the picture. I thought a digital signal was either all or none whether it's OTA or CATV. I also thought an open cable would result in zero reception and a "no signal" message but we both were able to get a picture that didn't pixelate, just snowy. I thought a weak digital signal would pixelate but this snow thing confuses me as it's an analog thing, or so I thought. Are there still CATV providers out there broadcasting analog? Maybe some of the TV signal experts can chime in.

Jim202259KL · 07-20-2022, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morich

Quote: Big B
Also I have no idea where to look for the splitter, one coax leaves the switch into the wall but I don't have any visible splitter that I can see.

If everything checks out I'll assume it was the park. I could test it here at home but we have Direct TV and I'd have to run a line out to the garage and hook up box first.

Maybe a little help on this as I did a check of the parts drawings for the TV here:

https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/2011/17537903.htm

It does not show any splitter as such but does show one dual coax at the one nearer the front and one single at the back, I might guess there are no hidden splitters to chase??

But there is also some infopossible on this drawing-if you can match your TV setup with one of the drawings as there are color codes on the coax ( supposed to be!!). But I also do not see a two TV setup without splitter, so only trust it so far as it works, right?

Maybe some help or maybe just more to confuse us?

https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_110138.pdf[/QUOTE]

Interesting. In my 59KL the cable feed and the antenna feed meet behind the water control panel and are joined with a splitter to a single coax that goes to the switch. The picture from the antenna (when within range) is perfectly fine, so it's not the van wiring.