Confusing electrical mess in 2009 Chalet

[Tadrith Bear]

Quick question, followed by a longer story.
Can i just add an extra house battery in parallel with the existing house batteries to increase capacity?

I bought an 09 Chalet from a private party. It came with solar panels installed on the roof. The solar panels are tied to two add-on batteries, but the change controller is dead. The add on batteries and original house batteries all read good voltage levels on the multimeter. Generator does not work. I can power the house when i turn on the chassis. I can power the house with the chassis off in bright daylight (some lights flickering because it's running on solar). I cannot power the house on just batteries. I feel like they rewired someone weird and created an additional power system. So I've got the original schematics from Winnebago and want to put things back to original. Then I want to tie in the two extra batteries for increased overall capacity, and tie in the solar to passively charge the batteries and help provide house power. Does my corrective action sound like a feasible plan, or am I going about it wrong?

[tim myers]

When you say you turn on the chassis, are you referring to the motor home engine, or something else?

[powercat_ras]

You should be able to download the OEM wiring diagram from winnebago.com for your specific RV. You plan seems reasonable. Good luck.

[Tadrith Bear]

Originally Posted by tim myers

When you say you turn on the chassis, are you referring to the motor home engine, or something else?

Yes, the truck e450 engine 🚚. The alternator and the solar panels can power the house, the batteries cannot.

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

You should be able to download the OEM wiring diagram from winnebago.com for your specific RV. You plan seems reasonable. Good luck.

Yep, that's where I got it from. Thanks 😊

[Morich]

I thought to take a look at the plans but I do not find the Chalet listed. If you can point me to where you found them, they should be somewhat close to others in the lineup but I like to get the correct drawings.

Got a link to the correct drawings?

[tim myers]

Originally Posted by Morich

I thought to take a look at the plans but I do not find the Chalet listed. If you can point me to where you found them, they should be somewhat close to others in the lineup but I like to get the correct drawings.

Got a link to the correct drawings?

Not sure if it matters but the Chalet line is what Winnebago sells to rental companies

[tim myers]

Originally Posted by Tadrith Bear

Yes, the truck e450 engine 🚚. The alternator and the solar panels can power the house, the batteries cannot.



Yep, that's where I got it from. Thanks 😊

I take it you have found the salesman switch that connects the house to the batteries

[Morich]

Yes, I was thinking the Chalet was the rental version of something but if they have a link to the drawings, it is likely to match the basic parts and be a place to start on looking at what is missing.
First guess would be that the cable from coach batteries to solenoid is open but it cuts the chase if we can look at what they actually put in place. It's also likely things have been changed but if it were me I would want to start with getting the OEM parts fixed before moving into the wide open field of what got changed!
We will need more info but the coach batteries not connecting to the solenoid will likely also cause the generator to not crank if the engine is not running!

One might kill two birds with one stone there but details are needed!

[Tadrith Bear]

The designator is WF231JR so generally everything about it falls under the 31J model. I agree that more details are needed �� I'm definitely working on getting a better understanding of what is in the RV and what should be. So yes i agree with finding stuff that's in there and try to replace it with Oem parts and setup.

[Morich]

Ok, sounds like we need a place to start and I would want to start with getting some of the basic things like coach battery to the solenoid and fuses as one that might be easier to spot than others?
Likely they did not change the basic battery use for the rental market but may have left some detail options off!

This is the drawing for the solenoid we think should fit. Maybe see if it matches?
Click for better view!



Basic idea I'm getting is that when the engine runs, it provides power both from the chassis battery but also from the alternator. The engine running also sends the 12VDC signal down wire LR to make the solenoid contacts close. When they close, the chassis power is connected to the coach battery cables.

My thought is that if the RV inside things work when the engine is running, it is getting power along the green line to and through the solenoid and the battery disconnect switch, so those two are working as they should!
Green line good, red line bad?

When the engine is off, the chassis power is cut off and the coach battery has to do the job, but it isn't!
I would want to find why power from charged coach batteries is not getting to the solenoid ?? Corroded or not connected right?
there may be some help with ID of those cables as the normal Winnebago cables came with tape markers at the ends that should fit this code:


Did the rental get marked the same and is it still there? If you find yellow tape on one cable that should be the one from coach to solenoid! If the battery is good, why is there no power at the right side of the solenoid when engine is off?

[Ray,IN]

Man, trying to figure out this "mess" will be difficult in person, trying to figure out where wires run and to what over the internet is next to impossible IMO.
I wish you the best of luck figuring out your "mess"


If this were mine, I'd put everything back to OEM design minus all the solar, make sure everything works, then have a solar installer for RV's re-connect solar to the coach batteries.

[Morich]

I would not try to work too many questions at once as it tends to overload our minds?

BUT, if and when you may reach a stop on one part, there is the AC and why the batteries may or may not be getting charged and you can do some checking on that pretty quick as well.

I tried to draw out a poor man's map of what you can test with a meter to see what works or doesn't.

When plugged into power, things should work like this and you can check several points with just a meter.

Plugged in and all breaker right, the converter should hum enough to hear it if it is getting the AC power to make DC. Do you hear it?
If you do, there are a couple points likely marked negative and positive on the front.
This is pretty direct from the converter putting out 12-14 volts or the batteries voltage showing near the same as what you see on them.
so if all is right, do you see battery voltage with the converter breaker off and then higher when it is on and converter is working?

If you don't see any voltage with the converter breaker open, there is an open in the cables to the batteries.
Then if you turn the breaker on, you should see power from the converter that should lead to the batteries.
If seeing no voltage with breaker on or off, the cables are not what normal should be! No voltage coming out of converter and no connection to batteries!

Double UGGHH! as you get to figure out what they may have been doing?

But only as you get time and we're all out here resting easy and letting you do the work!

[Chief deputy]

Tadrith Bear,
I have a 2012 Chalet. I believe it is the same as the Access. Mine happens to be the 31C model.
I have a battery disconnect switch at the entry door. Is that still connected? Maybe trace that switch wire to determine if it was disconnected as part of solar install.

[Morich]

The interior is reported to work when the RV engine is running which would indicate the battery disconnect switch is engaged.

[tim myers]

Originally Posted by Chief deputy

Tadrith Bear,
I have a 2012 Chalet. I believe it is the same as the Access. Mine happens to be the 31C model.
I have a battery disconnect switch at the entry door. Is that still connected? Maybe trace that switch wire to determine if it was disconnected as part of solar install.

To add to this the rental I used in 2011 and the 2008 Chalet I owned (yes a previous rental) had the disconnect switch near the floor at the entrance door. When that switch is toggled you should hear the house battery disconnect cycle, I believe that solenoid is also near the steps.


As for the drawings Rich provided. the solenoid on the left should in fact connect the chassis batteries to the house batteries when the engine is running. You can test this by reading the voltage on each side of that solenoid. When the engine is running the voltages should match or at least be within .1 V of each other. When you shut the engine off they will likely not match. The left connection is the chassis battery and the right is the house battery

[Morich]

This may be a place where we can use a trick to help clear our minds?
One way to cut to the main points is to sort out all the extra info we have on the drawings and throw it out!
We know we have a solenoid and a battery disconnect relay but those are hard for lots of us to think about because we don't use that name very often.
One way to clear our mind is to use names we know lots more about. So we know these are both switches that operate by electrical signals----so let's call them switch one and switch two!
The OP has told us that the RV inside things work when the engine is running but not when it is shut off!
If we go through the drawing and cut out all the extras info on things like how the switches are controlled and the box and all those labels, we get a lot less confusion!

If we say it works when the engine is providing power, that meets what the green line shows! If it stops working when switch one opens as we stop the engine, it will make it much easier to spot where we need to look?

Click this snip to get a better view!

[Tadrith Bear]

Slight progress as I've had a little time to poke at it during pre Christmas busyness. The extra batteries are wired in parallel with the original house batteries. They were poorly maintained so i removed them all, filled them with distilled water, and have them on a deep cycle charger hoping to revive them.

The solar controller does come on, but doesn't seem to respond to button presses. I see where they physically tied it into the system, and i found documentation on the inverter they installed.

I tremendously appreciate all of your input into helping me sort this out �� I have a day coming up soon where I'll just sit and read through everything and find all the main wires and get this rigged up right!

[Ray,IN]

Chassis and coach batteries hard-wired together is not good IMO. It creates a scenario where you can deplete both battery banks and be stranded. That also bypasses the battery bank main disconnect..

[Tadrith Bear]

So! I've been able to make a lot of progress, working at it steadily for the past week. Thank you all for your suggestions and ideas with this whole thing! I have read them and tried the test points suggested even though I haven't been replying.

1) The coach batteries were too far gone. They stunk up to high heavens when I put them on a deep charge. They're holding the rated voltage when not under load, but I don't trust them any further than I can throw them (and they're HEAVY so I can't throw them far!). So, I ordered all new batteries for the coach. And new wires. I switched it up from four 6V flooded batteries, to five 12v AGM deep cycle batteries (I live in the desert, AGM batteries have been a game changer for my other vehicles).

2) A lot more of the original wiring is in tact than I thought. It's just been the add-ons that weren't integrated properly

3) The solar charge controller was literally the cheapest option on the market. The one I have comes in multiple power ratings, but it doesn't have any labeling it mine to say its max volts or amps or model number or brand name... and it's rusted, and somehow weather warped. It wasn't mounted so much as it was just tossed into the battery bay and left to bounce around with similarly not-secured batteries during every drive. I trashed that, figured out the proper rated solar controller, and securely mounted the new controller near the batteries. I'm awaiting a couple parts to come in the mail tomorrow and I can finish the installation.

4) There is an 1800W inverter that was similarly tossed into the space under the refrigerator, behind the main house circuit breaker panel is. The inverter was not integrated into the system, it was used to power 1 power strip. I am in the process of properly mounting that, and integrating it into the whole system properly. 120AC Source -> Inverter's passthrough -> House 120AC system. That will enable the whole RV to function on the batteries if necessary. (And yes I'm making note of what items cannot be run while on batteries, such as the air condition and microwave)

5) I have the non-working generator on the workbench currently, but haven't had time to dig deep into it yet. Slowly taking it apart as I get time to poke at it.

6) It has been raining the past couple days, so I did some inside work of replacing the interior incandescent lights with fancy LED lights Touch activated, dimmable, and color changing from warm white to bright white.

[Morich]

I llike to start with knowing for sure the batteries are good as so much of the other parts depend on them. Kind of the way a building needs a good foundation.
One of the things that can mess with our mind is the way the battery disconnect switch and then the relay work together.
We can do all we want with the switch and it doesn't mean a thing if the relay doesn't move! Notice the switch is a momentary switch and only keeps contact while we are holding it?
They have added the relay as a latching relay, meaning it will move when we press the momentary switch to either engage or disengage. That move has to have battery power to move to change! Then when we stop pressing the switch, we stop using power but the relay will stay (latched) at whichever we have moved it into, open or closed!

The way this gets us thinking crazy is if we move the switch and assume we have moved the relay! So if we turn on the disconnect and THEN get a good battery in, we may not have really closed the relay!
No good battery, means no relay moved and no point in trying to turn the switch on!!!