Did I kill my converter/charger?

YGoHom · 08-07-2020, 08:05 PM

First off...I’m a bonehead.

I pulled the two house batteries out to check the water levels. When I put them back I put a black cable on a positive terminal, but didn’t realize it at the time.
I plugged in the RV to shore power via my Progressive Industries surge protector EMS-PT30x and waited for the power to kick in. It didn’t. It tripped my GFI at the house. That’s when I realized I messed up.

Fixed the cables, reset the GFI, and then tried again.
Powered fine, but the converter struggles to power the residential fridge. The fridge light is dim, the converter clicks once, twice, and turns itself off on the third click.

The 1000 watt inverter seems to power the fridge ok. Scratch that... sometimes it powers the fridge, other time it starts and immediately shuts off...BUT the fridge light stays on.

I checked the Protection Fuses on the converter and they’re fine.
No tripped breakers or blown fuses.

Did I kill the converter? I’m fine if I did. I just need to know if that’s the problem (aside from the idiot with tools)

Morich · 08-07-2020, 08:51 PM

Kick yourself twice and then just fix it and it will be okay! Most of us have been there.
But I have a theory that might get you out of your doghouse. Just guessing, so bare with a bit of guesswork?
While connected wrong, the battery charge most likely took a real beating, and if the batteries are not holding a good charge, the rest of the electronic brains get really funky and that sounds pretty much what you are telling us.
I suggest looking at the converter front to make sure there is not a GFCI or breaker to reset, use some other method to charge the batteries to full charge and then see what it looks like. Part of my thinking involves the inverter that starts to run the frig but then shuts off, which is normal if it thinks it has battery but they go down too quick and it shuts off due to low voltage input.
This comes with the sidenote that there may be a problem but first I would want to go with making sure it's not just really run down batteries and that "might" have happened in some unknown way we won't talk about!

Wyatt · 08-07-2020, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YGoHom

First off...I’m a bonehead.

I pulled the two house batteries out to check the water levels. When I put them back I put a black cable on a positive terminal, but didn’t realize it at the time.
I plugged in the RV to shore power via my Progressive Industries surge protector EMS-PT30x and waited for the power to kick in. It didn’t. It tripped my GFI at the house. That’s when I realized I messed up.

Fixed the cables, reset the GFI, and then tried again.
Powered fine, but the converter struggles to power the residential fridge. The fridge light is dim, the converter clicks once, twice, and turns itself off on the third click.

The 1000 watt inverter seems to power the fridge ok. Scratch that... sometimes it powers the fridge, other time it starts and immediately shuts off...BUT the fridge light stays on.

I checked the Protection Fuses on the converter and they’re fine.
No tripped breakers or blown fuses.

Did I kill the converter? I’m fine if I did. I just need to know if that’s the problem (aside from the idiot with tools)

Hmm. Did you kill the converter or inverter? Just the refrigerator, or anything for that matter. Since the inverter powers the refrigerator when not plugged into shoreline, and the tvs, unplug from shoreline and see if the tvs still work (all at once to tax the inverter). If they do, sounds like an issue with just the refrigerator.

The converter kicks in when connected to shoreline, to supply 12v from 120 for all of the 12v systems— e.g LEDS.

Do all of the tvs and refer work when plugged into shoreline?

YGoHom · 08-07-2020, 08:57 PM

Everything was working fine before I stepped in. The batteries were at 3 of 4 lights, but the cells were quite low, so I topped off with distilled water.
I’ll pull them and run my NOCO charger on each to replenish the charge to test your theory.
I have no problem replacing the converter if that’s it. Of course this happened a week before the next outing!

Thanks for your help.

YGoHom · 08-07-2020, 09:10 PM

I just tried the inverter again. It turns on, fridge on, then immediately turns off. TV red lights and fridge light on, but no compressor.
Repeat, same thing.
Plugged into shore power and it’s now working fine. Converter fan is running strong, fridge on, microwave has power.
Seems to be working. I’ll leave it plugged in to charge the batteries and check back later.

Thought... the battery cells were LOW. 2-3” from top. Would fresh distilled water lessened the existing charge? That would only affect the inverter, as Wyatt suggested.

Even if so, the converter shouldn’t have tripped.

Now it’s working. Until it doesn’t again.

Wyatt · 08-07-2020, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YGoHom

I just tried the inverter again. It turns on, fridge on, then immediately turns off. TV red lights and fridge light on, but no compressor.
Repeat, same thing.
Plugged into shore power and it’s now working fine. Converter fan is running strong, fridge on, microwave has power.
Seems to be working. I’ll leave it plugged in to charge the batteries and check back later.

Thought... the battery cells were LOW. 2-3” from top. Would fresh distilled water lessened the existing charge? That would only affect the inverter, as Wyatt suggested.

Even if so, the converter shouldn’t have tripped.

Now it’s working. Until it doesn’t again.

So your converter seems to be doing its job. If it’s “running strong” it’s in charge mode—your batteries are low, and it’s charging them. I’d leave it overnight and see how much charge they have and if your INVERTER is Working again in the AM and supplying your refer with power (not on shoreline). When it STOPS making sound, they should be fully charged, BUT COULD BE IN FLOAT MODE, which I imagine would be much quieter.

Since your refrigerator works on shoreline, we know it’s not the refrigerator.

Comes down to the batteries being low, killed, or you fried the inverter. Way better than frying the CONVERTER IMHO.

Did you ruin your batteries? Probably not, but as Morich suggested, they may have taken a beating.

Get some AGM’s or LiFePO4 and don’t mess with adding water again, that’d be my next suggestion...

Morich · 08-08-2020, 08:36 AM

Idea is that the inverter uses the battery to make AC but will shut down when it senses low battery. When plugged in, the Ac power goes past the inverter to make things work.
On the batteries, if they get low on water, the lead plates come out and dry or sulfate which does damage them, so step one of making them last is to not let them run dry. Adding new fresh water can make the chemical reaction change unless it is given a few hours for it to circulate all through the total battery. Weirdness comes in when we put a charge on and then take it off to see the battery may show nearly charged but it is only the chemicals right at the posts which are charge, so we need to give a battery time to settle" before trusting a voltage read. Specific gravity readings of each cell would give a much different idea but most no longer do that.

YGoHom · 08-09-2020, 03:21 PM

Update: I replaced the batteries and everything seems ok. Generator power is good. Inverter seems to power properly now. Only issue is plugging in to the house 15amp circuit. (The GFI tripped initially, which is how all this started)
Now it causes a low voltage code on the surge protector. I replaced the cord with a fatter 12 gauge, 25’ cord and it seems to be fine. (originally a 40’ 14 gauge cord)
I ordered another WFCO charger/converter as a back up and will plan on running a true 30 amp line to the RV soon.

Thanks to all who took the time to get me on track.

-Robb

Rick 99037 · 08-13-2020, 09:24 AM

If you ever looked at electrical extension cords, their capacity is a combination of wire gauge and cable length. Buy the correct gauge, and use the shortest cord you can. Having said that, as a base number for 110 volts, you use 12 gauge wire for 20 amps, and 10 gauge wire for 30 amps, for moderate wire runs.
Your single AC likely pulls a full 15 amps by its self. And the fridge and you're at 20 amps. Reach down and grip the cord. Being warm is okay, but not hot. And hot will get hotter until it burns a gap from the load. and yes, that 20 amp breaker in your house should protect the house circuit from overload, but if your 12 gauge extension cord is warm, so is the 12 gauge wire in your house going from the outlet to the breaker panel. You are operating at near their max capacity for this 20 Amp circuit.
As a side note, most house outlets are light duty. There are industrial grade outlets designed for higher longer work loads. And I always use the screws not the quick shove-in connectors on the back of outlets. That's a load failure point. And that outlet you are plugged into may well be daisy-chained through other outlets on the way to yours. So if you see it was a shove-in install, throw the breaker, go back to other outlets on this circuit that are now off, and secure the wire using the screws to each of those too.

YGoHom · 08-14-2020, 10:59 PM

Thanks, Rick. I’m aware of the cord gauge/amperage/length usage.
When I’m plugged in at home, it’s only for charging or to get the fridge cold for packing before a trip. NEVER to run the AC. I know the home circuit and extension cord can’t handle the draw.
I normally use a 50’ 12awg cord form home use, but the end got smashed recently, so a 50’ 14awg was used temporarily. Now I’m back to 12 gauge and with the fridge on and charger in use, the surge protector says I’m pulling 8 amps at home.

Rick 99037 · 08-15-2020, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YGoHom

Thanks, Rick. I’m aware of the cord gauge/amperage/length usage.
When I’m plugged in at home, it’s only for charging or to get the fridge cold for packing before a trip. NEVER to run the AC. I know the home circuit and extension cord can’t handle the draw.
I normally use a 50’ 12awg cord form home use, but the end got smashed recently, so a 50’ 14awg was used temporarily. Now I’m back to 12 gauge and with the fridge on and charger in use, the surge protector says I’m pulling 8 amps at home.

It sounds like you're all over it then. You just never know what people know, or where the holes are. Add to that, others reading, that might just say WHAT? I love that you have a gauge that shows your amperage draw. Quick, easy, accurate, and sometimes a warning of problems ahead too.