Discharged Batteries in New to me 2021 View

[RLCASC]

New to me 2021 View.
2 Battle Born Lithium 100amp Batteries.
Placed unit in storage 2weeks ago, shut off both inverter disconnect (by door) & house battery switch, thinking this would preserve charge in batteries. Went to retrieve today, chassis battery, ok, turned on both switches, house batteries very low. Brought home, plugged into shore power. Batteries returned to full power.
The system in the recently sold DP was switch off Chassis & House battery switch’s and even after a month, all batteries still near full charge.
Can anyone explain as to why the batteries would continue to discharge after shutting off these 2 switches. What more needs to be shut down?
Thanks

[Morich]

There are some details that might help to get down to real facts and numbers but a couple point to be aware of?

When dealing with the pusher, how many and what amp hour ratings were the batteries? It looks like good new batteries on the current RV, you would have 200 amp for one hour. Or looking at it another way, one amp for 200 hours.
One way to compare the new RV with the old is to look at how many amp hours were availabe on old versus new. I might guess the old had more batteries, giving more total amp hours.
Bottom line is a guess that the old lasted longer because you had more to start?

But the bigger question may be why either would run down when stored and that is one we don't have to guess on!
There is a common idea that the battery cutoff switch will cut off all battery drains. WRONG!

Click this snip to get a better look or go direct here for full drawing!
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File.../000171177.pdf
Your RV has a newer solid state version (BIM) which does the job that older used a mode solenoid. I included it here as it is such an important part of the 12V coach system and actually right beside the problem spot under the passenger seat!
We can "decode" wire ID on drawings or wire labels, using this chart:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf


I drew in red and blue , the cables from the two battery groups, coach and chassis. The black control wires make the BIM connect the two when we drive or push a dash switch to "boost" a weak start battery. That is how the coach gets charged as we drive! The coach gets connected through to the engine alternator!
But the question of why the coach goes down is the way the wiring at the right is built!
Coach battery goes to the relay as the red line. If the relay contacts are closed, that power goes through to the connections on the right side as I marked in green. Those get cut off by the disconnect switch!

But the hangup is the other wire labeled GJ!
It is straight on the lug where the coach battery comes to the relay and IS NOT cutoff when the relay is open! Items on red line stay hot and do not depend on relay open or closed!

That group of safety things left on, combined with possibly less amp hours makes it appear to down faster!

One solution to make sure it doesn't drain is to put a manual battery disconnect in the negative/ground side of the battery cables.
I like this for cheap and simple but there are lots of choices on them:
https://www.amazon.com/Top-Post-Batt...XXW5IVJB8&th=1

[Ray,IN]

LP detectors are wired directly to the battery, not through the disconnect. The easiest way to determine a draw on the battery bank with switch open is to measure current-draw in the negative cable with switch off.

[RLCASC]

When I had the 5th Wheel, I installed a battery disconnect switch like the one you suggested. Of course the DP didn’t require one due to having both a chassis & coach disconnects. Never had a substantial drain, even through winter storage. My fault in assuming this newer coach wouldn’t do the same. Also there doesn’t seem to be a shut off for solar & inverter. May have to trip breakers. Thanks for the expert advise.
Install of cut off will be next on list. And I thought learning curve was bad when I went to DP!!!

[Morich]

The learning curve can be a killer if we don't look way out in front!
This is the Winn home site:
https://www.winnebago.com/
Under the owners tab, you can find tons of info. All their online drawings for electrical, plumbing and parts!
Don't overlook the parts asthinking you don't need parts! It has an interactive drawing set that lets us look through walls and see things we would never know otherwise. If you live in cold country, looking at where the water lines run can be a great help on figuring how best to drain, heat or whatever is needed to save the pipes.

And keep the forum in mind if it seems right, there isn't much point in it if nobody has questions!

[RLCASC]

Richard, Thanks for information & referral to Winnebago Schematics. The one for the View 24V shows 2 junction blocks in battery compartment. Mine shows 4. May be due to lithium install. The rear block has two cables connected to 2 posts both coming from negative post on battery. Question would be, as to which cable would a cut off switch be installed?

[Morich]

OH MY!
I knew this was going to come around as folks get more into the newer battery types and make chances! The problem is that there is no one specific way to make those changes. That leaves it pretty much like we are on computers and cell phones with very little idea of what the opther guy does or if it will fit with what we have!

But for a battery cutoff, the main points are the same. We want the batteries total isolated, we could cutoff the positicve side but that is not as safe as cutting off the negative side. So if we locate the cable that goes from negative post to the ground buss bar, that is the best place to cut the circuit. That buss bar if often down behind the batteries , mounted on the frame where it is hard to see if we con't really look over and behind the batteries!

Some will say there is not difference ion cutting positive or negative but the simple idea is what I go with. If we cut off the positive and leave negative connected to the battery, we can slip up when working near the batteries and make contact with the positive side! If we do that and the negative is still connected, we get a big arc and flash and may blow up any gas fumes in the area.
If we short the positive post like with a wrench, nothing happens if the negative side is open. Just a little bit safer!
So locate the last negative cable going to the ground buss bar!
But be alert for odd things that can get done? Things like two negative cables instead of the normal one going to ground?
Sometimes folks get a little too quick to make a "new and better" plan than the engineers and RV builders!

Winnebago is not always right and they do screw up but they have been doing a lot of it for a really long time!

[RLCASC]

Richard; When you look at the pictures of the rear terminal block, where the two negative cables are attached, there is a small red wire with a fuse-able link running to positive post of front battery. Any idea as to function? I will experiment to see if by removing fuse, what it protects or disables. Thanks again. Hopefully others with lithium set up will chime in.

[Morich]

Whoops! I may have gotten way too quick to assume things without asking!
I heard lithium and asumed changes but when I look at drawings to sort what may be OEM, I have to question what I find??
Is the lithium OEM?
I better drop back and check what you see against the info they have online! Not the first time I've been wrong!

They do give us some pretty good info to try to help us understand what we see, so maybe I can pass along the info and let you see if it fits and what you are looking at in person.
One is a way they label battery cables and small wires to ID them! A BIG help.
Smaller wires:

Decoder list giving " from" and "to" locations:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf
This can give hints like battery or ground and what wires go from switches to lights, etc.
For battery cables, this can help sort without tracing:

This may be getting old info now but if the colored tape on your cables matches with this info, it would be nice! I see yellow and blue markings that would have fit the code at one point. Does it still match?

But then if we say you have not been modded too far, maybe the drawings give good info?
Sheet 3 of this drawing, seems to show without lithium. Sheet 4 has an option down in the lower right corner for lithium? Option 22N on your RV?
A big help might be a sheet or two of info in a big bag of info that should travel with the RV. Got a bag of booklets and maybe a page which lists the OEM equipemnt and what options were ordered on this specific RV? Spot an option 22N and it says lithium was OEM!
That would be great as then the drawings work!
This drawing:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File.../000171177.pdf
Look down to sheet 4 and I see things I have not seen before!
Top left corner is and different/new to me item!!
Detail DB referrs to something shown in the lower right side that involves lithium!

I don't spot the line you are asking about but have to admit this drawing likely knows more and better!! Maybe you can ID from this drawing what much of it is and then work on any not on it?

The more I learn the less I think I know!
See if you can make sense of the two by looking at what you have compared to what might be!

[Morich]

Sometimes I can't see! A second look and the fuse holder is right there!
This one looks very loikely to be an added "something". Several clues are that it is not really "installed but more draped across things. Second is they rarely use twist on connectectors as they tend to come unscrewed on RV, so likely a mod done by previous owner? Not too often we see wire added to wire to extend if it is new stuff! SEe the blue connector? That looks DIY, for sure, so not much guess what it is!

[RLCASC]

Richard, Sorry didn’t get back to posts over the weekend. As to that red wire. What seem odd is it travels from positive terminal on front battery to under junction block where the 2 large negative cables attach. I’m going to go to local battery shop to see if they can explain what has been done. After looking at schematics and reading your input , it’s clear that unlike older MH. The coach batteries aren’t isolated, and interface more with chassis. Question is can I even install a total battery disconnect. Has anyone with a Sprinter installed one before . I wii keep you posted. This really goes above my pay grade.

[Morich]

Agree that a pro looking directly at it may be the best way to go.
My thinking is that it is likely something added after market for a couple reasons.
One is that it doesn't seem to show on the drawings. The other is the fuse holder used as a loose one like that seems out of place as it is not attached and just kind of droops across where we would want to have clear for battery work.
A fuse between a positive post and a negative spot doesn't sound right at all so I might think it goes somewhere unseen, but that is pure guess! Maybe a small hole under that negaitve where the wire runs out of the box and to some unknown place?

I find RV owners are often kind of "over-excited" when it comes to mods for the RV! I liked to know the battery voltages as I drove, so had a connection like that run to a pair of small digital meters mounted on the steering wheel column.

And when I sell RV, I find people don't trust added things so before selling I removed the meters but left the wire! Somewhere there is likely a buyer wondering what the heck that wire goes to and what does it do?

The last RV I sold, the buyer did not trust "that stuff" I had added and did not want to make a deal until I took the TPMS tire pressure sensors off!

[creativepart]

These photos show an additional device added - and that is the Victron Shunt. I can only see a little of the underside of it but I'd "guess" that it's a Victron SmartShunt. All negative loads go on one side (the load side) and then the other - the battery side - all go to the main negative battery terminal.

I circled this in your photo you can see below.

The other two Positive items are a main fuse (450 amp??) and goes to the main positive battery connection. The other slightly smaller fuse not mounted on the wall of the compartment is for your Inverter. It's likely a 250amp fuse.

Winnebago likes to run the main positive power cable from the end of a parallel battery bank and the Inverter positive power cable from the middle of the two battery parallel setup.

It's a wise way of wiring that helps keep the batteries in balance during charging and even when discharging.

The Victron SmartShunt monitors all current in and out of the battery bank via the negative loads. You then use a smart phone app to read battery voltage, current and state of charge.

Are you familiar with the Victron App and the SmartShunt's operation? Let me know and I'll provide more info.

[RLCASC]

Shoot you an additional picture. Upon further inspection, this is more than junction block. Left (or rear) cable comes from negative terminal. Right ( or front ) cable goes to frame.

[creativepart]

That looks like a Victron BMV-7XX (like 702 or 712).

So you must have a monitor inside your RV that shows your battery state of charge, voltage, current, etc.

That red cable is to power the shunt. The white or gray cable is the network cable that runs to your monitor's display.

One model only has the display, the other model has both the display and bluetooth for the Victron App. I believe the BMV-702 has just the display and the BMV-712 has both the display and bluetooth for the app. You can see the model number on the type at the top of the display.

Here's what the inside display of the BMV-712 looks like:

[RLCASC]

Creativepart; Thank you. Checked the monitor and it says BM 712 but does not include the word Smart or have blue tooth icon, as your example. I also have a Zamp solar charge control that monitors batter levels as well.
Don’t know if you read my 1st concern, All of this came about when i went to retrieve RV from storage after 10 days and the battery levels were very low. This was with inverter and battery switches both shut off. Because of my unfamiliarity with this system, I was inquiring as what could cause such a rapid decline. Brought RV Home, so with the two monitors, will watch to see if it continues. Do have one further question, In previous MH. I know the battery switch had to be on for charging. Is the same true with solar?

[Morich]

Something to watch or test but looking at the draings for your RV, it appears that the solar does stay connected, even when the disconnect is opened!
Drawing of disconnect relay controlled by switch:

Coach battery cable comes in on left side of relay. I frelay is open, no power goes out to right side. But the GJ wire is connected directly to the cable on the left and not involved in the relay contacts, open or closed!

To reinforce that idea, looking at the wire ID chart we get this:


If you have an Lp detecor with a small green LED, it likely stays lit when the disconnect is opened. That is one of the safety items left on to eventually drain the coach battery! It IS a small drain and takes time to show up!

It would be my opinion that the solar will stay connected on this RV to charge the coach battery! But that needs testing before totally trusting the idea!

[Morich]

Chasing the circuit a bit more shows connection through fuse solar to coach battery!
HS from solar connects to GJ to coach battery without going through ( upstream?) the disconnect relay!

Looking at the fuse panel on side of passenger seat, do you have a fuse at top LEFT labeled anything like solar? Right on drawing is left when viewing other side!

[RLCASC]

Yes there is fuse labeled Solar with on next to it labeled disconnect.

[creativepart]

Yes, the solar doesn't go through the house disconnect. But it's not a power draw. It may go through the Inverter rotary switch I don't know. Some Winnebago Sprinter RVs are wired that way and some are not.

Do you park in a covered space when you store the RV?

It sounds like you did everything correctly. When you say you came back and the LFP batteries were low. How low were they? And when you parked what was their state of charge?

You also said the rotary disconnect for the inverter was off. That sounds correct, but I'm not sure how your View is wired exactly.

I have 400ah of LFP batteries and when I turn everything off with the disconnects the batteries still draw down over a few weeks. But unlike Lead Acid batteries that's not a problem. I will typically see a 25% state of charge reduction in about a month. So, if I'm at 95% SOC when I park the rig I usually come back to about 70% SOC after a month.

Are you seeing much more than that?

From your description I'm confident you did everything correctly but here's a simplistic video just to help. Though I doubt you need it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaUkwKp62RI