Drop 1790 outdoor storage metal parts feel 'charged'

[Samm Rhys]

So I went to open my outside storage door of my tt today. It was Soo strange, it felt like the handles and keyhole were 'charged'. When I touch it feels like the very low shock you'd get from static electricity, but it's constant. Could this be an issue with the battery or something. It doesn't feel dangerous a d as long as I don't touch the metal parts with my bare hands I don't feel it. I been using a sock instead. Should I have someone look at it?


Thanks in advance,

Samm

[rgvtexan]

Could be very dangerous! Read about "Hot Skin" here'

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...%3D&fr2=sb-top

[Samm Rhys]

I think i found the culprit by process of elimination. I turned off the batter via the disconnect in the storage compartment. Still felt it, so i started to look. I saw that SOMEONE put a ground wire to the frame. I don't know if it's the Microwave or the PDC though (i turned all the breakers off one by one) The only time i felt the tingling was when the breaker labeled "general" and breaker labeled M/W (microwave) were on.Nothing from the AC, nothing from the H/W heater, nothing from the GFI, not the main breaker. Just the Microwave and the "general" breaker. Also, we did have to get an RV 30A shore line extension cause the shoreline was too short to reach the receptacle.And we do use a 30a>15A 'tail' so we can run the RV off the household 120V. I also noticed if i am wearing rubber soled shoes i don't feel the tingle. We have a service tech from Camping world (dealership I got unit from) coming out tomorrow to see what he can do.Luckily Electrical issues are cover by the 3yr extended warranty we got with the purchase.I do have a southwire surge protector, should i connect that to the end than connect the 'tail' to plug it into the house?

Samm

[creativepart]

It very well could simply be a problem with the extension or the plug or the adapter or even the receptacle you are using. It doesn't have to be caused by your Drop 1790 - though it could be, too.

And, you should probably reread the terms and conditions of your Extended Service Contract. It's not a warranty, it's mechanical insurance. I doesn't cover everything. And likely has a couple hundred dollar deductible per occurrence.

A ground wire to the frame sounds like a common chassis ground connection. What makes you think it's something miswired?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifo-ZLrdsBg

[Samm Rhys]

Originally Posted by creativepart

A ground wire to the frame sounds like a common chassis ground connection. What makes you think it's something miswired?

I just dunno, first time RV owner should the ground to chassis go all the way down the frame and make the metal parts on the Storage compartment feel tingly to the touch kinda like a constant static shock discharge? Not just a quick touch and zap tingle, but a constant tingle? That is the reason i asked, I don't feel it in rubber soled shoes/boots though, just bare feet.


Samm

[Morich]

Warning! What you descricbe is often the last thing people feel before they fall down!
DO NOT continue to test by feel as you are risking death!
The reason you are feeling a tingle is becasue the skin of the trailer is not well grounded to bleed off the AC power it is getting from some fault in the wiring. The reason it is only a tingle is a matter of luck and being a dry day!
That luck can change almost instantly if the right conditions come up, so do not touch metal on the trailer until yyou find out WHY there is AC power on the skin. It should allbe bonded together with the frame and the frame grounded through the power cord.
It may be as simple as the ground in the cord is broken and there is a power hot wire touching metal at some point!

I highly rcommend unplugging the cord, making very sure that you are not touching any stray wires or grounded while doing it. If there is a breaker at the shore power connection, turn it off first.

Warning! This can kill you!

[Samm Rhys]

Soo, I figured out what the cause was. The outlet the RV was plugged into had an open ground. We changed the receptacle it was plugged into and I took a volt detector out to the RV (the no touch kind) and it is not hot/charged anymore. The Southwire surge protector I have had LED indicators on it so I told my stepdad and that was when he found out.I am sooo happy that life threatening circumstance is done.


Samm

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Samm Rhys

Soo, I figured out what the cause was. The outlet the RV was plugged into had an open ground.

Exactly as I figured in my post above.

As to the wire to the frame for ground, this how your car, your RV and any other DC powered vehicles are wired and have been wired this way for, what, 80 years.

You don’t get shocked from DC voltage ground wiring. Well, unless you simultaneously touch a DC positive connection.

PS. You still probably should do a thorough rereading of your Extended Service Contract to better understand how it works. It’s not at all like the bumper to bumper warranty of an automobile.

[powercat_ras]

You might want to plug your RV into a 15 or 20 amp GFCI outlet, and see if the GFCI trips. A small amount of AC leakage to ground (under 5/1000 amp) is considered OK. If over this amount the GFCI will trip and you'll know that you have something in your RV that has excessive AC power leakage to ground.

You can switch off RV AC circuit breakers one at a time and isolate what has the leakage over 5/1000 amp problem, when you find which one you can switch off and the GFCI no longer trips.

A common cause of current of over 5/1000 amp flowing to ground instead of neutral is a problem with a AC powered heating element failing either in the hot water heater or the refrigerator.

- - - - -

You never know when you might again encounter a shore power outlet with an open ground when traveling and have the hazard return, so I suggest you make sure it is a "safe" amount of AC leakage to ground just in case.

[Morich]

This is a common problem in mobile home setups and folks who work on them have to be very aware of the problem as it can knock you down when you knock on the door if you are not aware!
You may have seen utility workers who wear leather gloves at what might seem odd times, like when they come to the door to knock?

One big clue is that it is NOT 12Vdc as we can grab the posts on a battery and not feel it! For 110AC? Yes, you can definitely feel it if the fault is a good one!
How good it is, depends on your luck that specific time! Stand in a puddle of wet grass so you are well grounded and the current flow can go way high!

Mobile home and RV are rolling hazards when working on them!

[Samm Rhys]

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

You never know when you might again encounter a shore power outlet with an open ground when traveling and have the hazard return, so I suggest you make sure it is a "safe" amount of AC leakage to ground just in case.

From now on I will be plugging my surge protector into ANY receptacle I plan to plug my RV into, it has lights that show up in patterns to warn of potential hazards like open grounds, open neutrals, and reverse polarity. If ANY of the lights indicate issues I will NOT plug it in. The surge protector will warn even if the RV isn't plugged in.


Samm

[Morich]

I'm with you on being safe as the difference can change just with something simple going on.
If there were a short between the hot and metal side, etc., it can change with just the slam of a door! It can go from a small tingle to a heart stopping amount of current if the last little bit of plastic finally gives way and the small hot voltage becomes full 30Amps 110AC .

We would like to think breakers would trip but that is not going to work if the grounds are not right!

[Bobn1957]

Originally Posted by Samm Rhys

So I went to open my outside storage door of my tt today. It was Soo strange, it felt like the handles and keyhole were 'charged'. When I touch it feels like the very low shock you'd get from static electricity, but it's constant. Could this be an issue with the battery or something. It doesn't feel dangerous a d as long as I don't touch the metal parts with my bare hands I don't feel it. I been using a sock instead. Should I have someone look at it?


Thanks in advance,

Samm

This could be lethal given the right conditions, use a volt meter to test between a true ground (such as a separate extension cord from the house or utility post) and the place you are being shocked from, this will tell you how much voltage is being leaked! The meter should read zero because the RV is connected to the ground through the cord. I think you have two problems: something leaking to the ground and a poor connection from the RV to the ground! You should always use a meter for testing, not your body, as the consequences can be dire!

[Samm Rhys]

Originally Posted by Bobn1957

This could be lethal given the right conditions, use a volt meter to test between a true ground (such as a separate extension cord from the house or utility post) and the place you are being shocked from, this will tell you how much voltage is being leaked! The meter should read zero because the RV is connected to the ground through the cord. I think you have two problems: something leaking to the ground and a poor connection from the RV to the ground! You should always use a meter for testing, not your body, as the consequences can be dire!

It has been fixed, There was an open ground off the plug i had the shoreline connected to. We got the ground fixed, I have not had ANY issues since than. No charge, no warning on the surge protector, nothing. It was bad wiring at the source (not the RV). I even used a voltmeter to check the entire frame of the RV and the power source & shoreline itself.



Mods can feel free to lock this or whatever since it is solved.


Samm

[emiwegner]

Originally Posted by Samm Rhys

So I went to open my outside storage door of my tt today. It was Soo strange, it felt like the handles and keyhole were 'charged'. When I touch it feels like the very low shock you'd get from static electricity, but it's constant. Could this be an issue with the battery or something. It doesn't feel dangerous a d as long as I don't touch the metal parts with my bare hands I don't feel it. I been using a sock instead. Should I have someone look at it?


Thanks in advance,

Samm

I had the same experience recently. It is not a shock it is just a tingle and the first time I have ever felt it. It does only happen when the 2014 Trend is plugged into shore power. I have it scheduled to be looked at when we get home but they are 3 months out on appointments so will likely have to live with it until then.

[Bobn1957]

Originally Posted by Samm Rhys

It has been fixed, There was an open ground off the plug i had the shoreline connected to. We got the ground fixed, I have not had ANY issues since than. No charge, no warning on the surge protector, nothing. It was bad wiring at the source (not the RV). I even used a voltmeter to check the entire frame of the RV and the power source & shoreline itself.



Mods can feel free to lock this or whatever since it is solved.


Samm

So to be clear, the ground wire wasn't connected and once connected the problem went away? The ground connection is masking the issue of which appliance or internal wiring is leaking to ground, you still have a problem to fix! IMHO

[bigb]

Originally Posted by Bobn1957

So to be clear, the ground wire wasn't connected and once connected the problem went away? The ground connection is masking the issue of which appliance or internal wiring is leaking to ground, you still have a problem to fix! IMHO

Agreed. There could be an improper neutral connection to the grounding system causing current leakage which will never trip a circuit breaker but will show up as a hot skin if there is an open ground. Plugging into a GFCI will reveal this, if the GFCI won't hold there is an improper neutral to ground connection.

Grounding isn't needed for normal circuit operation, it is there as a backup to protect you when something goes wrong. The way it is designed, at least two things must go wrong for you to get hurt or killed. Right now you're down to one.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by emiwegner

I had the same experience recently. It is not a shock it is just a tingle and the first time I have ever felt it. It does only happen when the 2014 Trend is plugged into shore power. I have it scheduled to be looked at when we get home but they are 3 months out on appointments so will likely have to live with it until then.

This is missing the point, when you say you will have to LIVE with it!
What you are saying is that you are willing to DIE with it!

Understand what we are saying! It is not JUST that a ground is not quite right. WE are saying that there is a problem with the ground as the voltage on them metal parts is not going to ground as it should. that means YOU are a better path to ground than the ground.
But you are getting off lucky as the voltage put on the metal is not currently strong enough to kill you----yet!

The difference in a tingle and death can be a matter of the insulation on a wire is now 1/64 inch thick but can easily cut totally through for full contact at any time it feels like moving that last tiny bit!
Or maybe the next time you touch the metal you are standing on wetter ground and you make a really good path for the current to flow thorugh you!

A point to know that I copied:
Your outlook with ventricular fibrillation depends on how quickly someone helps you. With quick treatment, up to 50% of people can survive. Without immediate treatment, a ventricular fibrillation rhythm is fatal. For each minute you wait for defibrillation, your chance of survival drops by 7% to 10%.

How many times do you want to play those odds if you are in a campground 10 miles from a hospital?

Low voltages like 110 AC at 60 cycle is the most common one to cause fibrillation! We worry a lot about 6500 but it only burns your leg or arm off quickly! It is the 110/220 that is more likely to kill you!