Electrical Problem with my Itasca Meridian

[Mike M]

Hello.
I have a 2012 Itasca Meridian 40U with an electrical problem. The 110 VAC receptacles starting at the bathrooms on both sides have no power. The only plugs that work are the bedroom plugs and the plug by the passenger seat. (The appliances all work ) I checked the breaker box under the bed and none were tripped. I thought it may be a GFI issue since the green light was not lit and it would not reset so I replaced the one in the toilet room. When I did, I found it had no power coming to the plug. I went back to the breaker box and pulled the cover. I checked for power at each breaker and there was 110vac at each screw. I did notice a 30 amp breaker for what was labeled "sub main". I don't see a sub Panal on the electrical plans anywhere. Any help? Thanks !
Mike

[Morich]

Let's check if I am understanding what you mean first?
I read this drawing:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_179542.pdf

I think what you are seeing is the main panel has a breaker labeled inverter main, that breaker is the main input TO the inverter, then a second group of breakers with inverter sub main breaker labeled?
I read that as the first breaker feeds AC power to the inverter and then comes back tot he second breaker in the second group!

then to check further, you have power to the microwave and frig? If correct, that says power gets through the breaker at far right and feeds the breakers for those two circuits okay? That means those three breakers are okay and the sub main inverter breaker should be a simple bar inside the box connected to the two breakers at far left labeled PUR and BLU.

That makes the question of what is NOT working. You mention the bath circuits and GFCI, so I assume they are a problem?

I did this drawing to make it easier to speak of where and which is not working.
Can you do a check and tell us if blue 1,2,3,etc. or purple 1,2,3, , etc. are working or not?

Click this snip to view better!


No need to go digging behind the bed or the hard stuff but if you see both blue 1 and purple 1 are not working it may tend to lead back to looking in the inverter box, rather than farther out on the lines!
If several on either purple or blue are working but not others, THEN we might need to check that line at some point along the way??

If not used to dealing with this type drawing, it is much like a roadmap and we just need to look for the "hole in the road"!

Maybe as a hope for a "quickie", make sure to flip the purple and blue breakers fully off and then fully on again as it may be a case where they look right but not actually fully flipped the right way??
you are correct on the GFCI will not reset if not powered, so maybe leave that question for last!

[Mike M]

Originally Posted by Morich

Let's check if I am understanding what you mean first?
I read this drawing:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_179542.pdf

I think what you are seeing is the main panel has a breaker labeled inverter main, that breaker is the main input TO the inverter, then a second group of breakers with inverter sub main breaker labeled?
I read that as the first breaker feeds AC power to the inverter and then comes back tot he second breaker in the second group!

then to check further, you have power to the microwave and frig? If correct, that says power gets through the breaker at far right and feeds the breakers for those two circuits okay? That means those three breakers are okay and the sub main inverter breaker should be a simple bar inside the box connected to the two breakers at far left labeled PUR and BLU.

That makes the question of what is NOT working. You mention the bath circuits and GFCI, so I assume they are a problem?

I did this drawing to make it easier to speak of where and which is not working.
Can you do a check and tell us if blue 1,2,3,etc. or purple 1,2,3, , etc. are working or not?

Click this snip to view better!
Attachment 188576

No need to go digging behind the bed or the hard stuff but if you see both blue 1 and purple 1 are not working it may tend to lead back to looking in the inverter box, rather than farther out on the lines!
If several on either purple or blue are working but not others, THEN we might need to check that line at some point along the way??

If not used to dealing with this type drawing, it is much like a roadmap and we just need to look for the "hole in the road"!

Maybe as a hope for a "quickie", make sure to flip the purple and blue breakers fully off and then fully on again as it may be a case where they look right but not actually fully flipped the right way??
you are correct on the GFCI will not reset if not powered, so maybe leave that question for last!

Hi.
Thank you very much for the well labeled drawing !
We do have power to the microwave and fridge.

Of those plugs you labeled none of the galley plugs work. The front bath on the passenger side of the coach does not work.

On the driver side of the coach, the driver side toilet room plug does not work. Neither does the plug under the dinette nor under the Mini desk next to the TV.
By your numbers:
1,2. 3, 4, 6,7,8, 9 are working.

1,, 4, 5 and the outside TV are not working. ( I don't see the #3 plug. That may be one that was for the dishwasher which was removed and replaced by an oven

Only one plug in the basement is working.

Regarding the breaker box under the bed, the breaker labeled sub main is a 30 amp located at the far right position in the box

Thanks !
Mike

[Morich]

Good enough! That pins it down to most likely a problem right at the far left breaker labeled BLU!

Careful on this to avoid getting shocked as the inverter can still be putting out the 110aC it makes from the 12VDC, so you have to either be very careful not to touch anything in the box or you need to be sure the inverter is not getting any power in!
The breaker on the main box can be cut off to cut the AC feed to the inverter, but then you need to be sure to cut off the 12VDC feed to the inverter as well before saying it is safe to assume all wires and connections in the inverter breaker box are safe!!

If you are using a meter, it is safer to put the meter on some wire in the inverter box, see power and then turn off the 110AC feed as well as a 12VDC feed, then make sure the power you were seeing is gone!
Once you see you have actually removed the power to the whole small box, you can feel safer to get in and move breakers and wires with knowing they are dead!

I never know how much to stress how to be safe because I never know how much of that you may already know! Hate to preach tot he choir but I also don't like to let it go and you get hurt!!
Only work to the level you feel okay doing!

But it sounds like you need to take a good look inside the inverter breaker box and the breaker on the far left that feeds almost directly to the bathroom GFCI!
It shows no connections between that left breaker and the first outlet where the GFCI is located, so that cuts the chase a bunch!
Things that can happen in order are:
1. The breaker is someway not making good connection where it mounts on the bar in the box. different types connect in different ways. Some just have a type os snap connection or plug onto the bar. Maybe it broke or is loose?
2. And pretty common is the breaker is just defective and needs replaced! Semi-common problem!
3. The wire that should connect on the breaker and go to the first outlet may be loose. Pretty common on RV that bounce up the road so much. Maybe the screw needs tightened? Suspect this since you found no power at GFCI?
4. One that is often overlooked is that it takes both a hot wire connected to the breaker as well as the neutral wire that is connected to a common ground point in the box with neutral wires from the other 3-4 circuits in that box!

Idea is that the problem seems right there in this box and getting the hot out on the BLU circuit! But if the power goes out to things but can't get back on the neutral, it doesn't work, just as if the hot was open. An open circuit is the same whether it is the hot or the neutral side open!

If easy to get to the wires at the GFCI, testing the neutral side for ground might tell you this is the problem? If you can measure ground at the GFCI, then you can be pretty sure it is not connected well at the inverter panel!

Before going too far in looking, if you have a meter and see power where the hot wire connects to the breaker and it looks tight, suspect this last neutral wire and sort out which wire that is to make sure it is connected and good!

If you get to see enough of the wires to the box(?)? you may see ID on them like this?

Power from main breaker box goes out to inverter and passes through OR dc power goes into inverter, makes AC and feeds to inverter small breaker box.
So to be safe to handle in the small box, you have to be sure to get BOTH feeds to the inverter cut off before getting careless!

[Mike M]

Originally Posted by Morich

Good enough! That pins it down to most likely a problem right at the far left breaker labeled BLU!

Careful on this to avoid getting shocked as the inverter can still be putting out the 110aC it makes from the 12VDC, so you have to either be very careful not to touch anything in the box or you need to be sure the inverter is not getting any power in!
The breaker on the main box can be cut off to cut the AC feed to the inverter, but then you need to be sure to cut off the 12VDC feed to the inverter as well before saying it is safe to assume all wires and connections in the inverter breaker box are safe!!

If you are using a meter, it is safer to put the meter on some wire in the inverter box, see power and then turn off the 110AC feed as well as a 12VDC feed, then make sure the power you were seeing is gone!
Once you see you have actually removed the power to the whole small box, you can feel safer to get in and move breakers and wires with knowing they are dead!

I never know how much to stress how to be safe because I never know how much of that you may already know! Hate to preach tot he choir but I also don't like to let it go and you get hurt!!
Only work to the level you feel okay doing!

But it sounds like you need to take a good look inside the inverter breaker box and the breaker on the far left that feeds almost directly to the bathroom GFCI!
It shows no connections between that left breaker and the first outlet where the GFCI is located, so that cuts the chase a bunch!
Things that can happen in order are:
1. The breaker is someway not making good connection where it mounts on the bar in the box. different types connect in different ways. Some just have a type os snap connection or plug onto the bar. Maybe it broke or is loose?
2. And pretty common is the breaker is just defective and needs replaced! Semi-common problem!
3. The wire that should connect on the breaker and go to the first outlet may be loose. Pretty common on RV that bounce up the road so much. Maybe the screw needs tightened? Suspect this since you found no power at GFCI?
4. One that is often overlooked is that it takes both a hot wire connected to the breaker as well as the neutral wire that is connected to a common ground point in the box with neutral wires from the other 3-4 circuits in that box!

Idea is that the problem seems right there in this box and getting the hot out on the BLU circuit! But if the power goes out to things but can't get back on the neutral, it doesn't work, just as if the hot was open. An open circuit is the same whether it is the hot or the neutral side open!

If easy to get to the wires at the GFCI, testing the neutral side for ground might tell you this is the problem? If you can measure ground at the GFCI, then you can be pretty sure it is not connected well at the inverter panel!

Before going too far in looking, if you have a meter and see power where the hot wire connects to the breaker and it looks tight, suspect this last neutral wire and sort out which wire that is to make sure it is connected and good!

If you get to see enough of the wires to the box(?)? you may see ID on them like this?
Attachment 188577
Power from main breaker box goes out to inverter and passes through OR dc power goes into inverter, makes AC and feeds to inverter small breaker box.
So to be safe to handle in the small box, you have to be sure to get BOTH feeds to the inverter cut off before getting careless!

Attachment 188578

Thank you. This is very helpful. It seems like you are talking about two separate circuit boxes. The one i see under the bed does not have a curcuit marked blu and pur. In those positions in the box i am looking at is “Gen RCP” and Gen RCP. Are you talking about a second box? Thanks!!!!!!!

[Ray,IN]

Buy a non-contact voltage tester and begin tracing wires, beginning at the main breaker panel, or the end of each circuit back to the main panel.


I suspect you'll find a loose wire in a receptacle somewhere, since they are just push-in or clamped on with the cheap RV receptacle.

[Morich]

Getting some better idea of what you have and I was confused on locations of breakers as I thought it was two boxes. When I go to the interactive parts drawings, I get a different look and see it is two sections but in one box, just alongside each other!

That left me telling you to look at the left breakers, etc. when that is not where they are if we are looking at them in the same string in the same box!
I still see some things which may be different on the drawings than what you may actually have. That is often due to different options which are not on all RV.
When looking at the parts drawing, I see this under the bed! And that is all we need to look at right now as the problem is there or at the first GFCI.
I see this on the parts but it doesn't quite match what the electrical drawing shows???


This is the electrical drawing that I think should match the drawing above but doesn't!



See if this makes sense of things for what you see as some things may have been changed or different than what this shows??
Power should come in on the two main (50amp) breakers and feed others on that section. Part of that should be a breaker that feeds power TO the inverter. Does that breaker show somewhere on the left group?

Then power should go out on wiring to the inverter to feed through it when connected to shore power! The power then comes out and to an inverter sub breaker and should be on the far right of that group, not in a separate box like I thought!
I think the breakers that are yellow in this drawing are what controls power TO and FROM the inverter! If that seems to match what you have, then there should be a dual breaker feeding two circuits, then two single breakers. that last on in this group shows it feeds directly down and to the GFCI!
If you find something that seems to match that, I'm thinking the problem has to be where that breaker fits on the buss bar in the right hand section, the breaker may be off or bad or the wire loose that goes down to the GFCI.

If you get no power at the GFCI on the wire coming in from the breaker, I would have to go to the breaker and make sure there is power where that wire connects on the breaker!
If the drawing is right, the breaker I marked with red X should be the one feeding what is out?
Maybe that wire is loose, breaker is bad, or maybe just needs to be flipped off/on to make sure it is not tripped?

I'm not seeing any mention of a generator receptacle, etc, so it may be something that has been changed or added over the years! Anything in the generator compartment that looks different or new like it was added?

[Mike M]

Thanks again for being so helpful. My breaker box appears to be very different. From the left part of the box, the “Main Panel as it is labeled, from, the left A/C front 20 amp; Main 50 amp, Main 50 amp; (tied together) ; A/C mid 20 amp, A/C rear, 20 amp; inverter charger 30 amp; water heater 20 amp, washer 15 amp, eng htr 15 amp, dryer 15 amp, Gen RCP 15 amp, fireplace 15 amp Moving to the right section titled “inverter sub panal” it starts with a gen RCP 15 amp; Gen RCP 15 amp, Frig15 amp; microwave, 15 amp; Sub Main 30 amp. Keep in mind that I have lost power on both side of the coach starting with the bathrooms. Are the breakers marked Gen RCP stand for general plugs? I am pretty good at electrical work. The trouble is these cables disappear in the body and or frame so are difficult if not impossible to follow. In light of the fact that both sides are effected and the almost all of the basement plugs are also dead, it seems there must be a common denominator. I know you are MUCH better at these things that i am so i really appreciate your help. Right now my wife and I are at a camp ground with an extension cord running from the passenger seat pedestal plug supplying all our electrical needs in the front part of the coach!! Lol !

[Morich]

what a pickle when the drawings we get don't seem to match what you find!
you may be correct in the labels saying general rectp. , instead of generator! My bad for guessing!

I'm now finding the outlets are not labeled the same on the electrical as the drawings they call installation drawings that show the physical location.

Maybe we need to get clear the physical location as it look like one side is involved with coming off the inverter while the other doesn't!
Maybe it will look more clear when you are familiar with the RV? Left/right front back has so little meaning that I'm not getting far on that part!

I hate these drawings as the lines are there but often get so many crossings that sorting what the actual location might be can get down to pure guess!

See the small black lines that come and go to things like outlets? Hard to follow very far..
But there is one thing that seems like we could depend on it if it meets the drawings at all and that is the GFCI seems to show as the first outlet in line as the power leaves the breaker! Good deal as it cuts the chase. But only if we can sort out WHICH breaker.
There seems to be a couple feeds from the main section but also a couple from the inverter section.
Some way, I jumped to it being the one from the inverter section but maybe it is more clear if you look at where they show the physical location, left or right ----if it matches?
Where is the GFCI that you found had no power coming to it?
Right side?


Or left side?

[wahoonc]

If I had to hazard a guess I would suspect an issue with the inverter. I would shut it down and restart it. Then possibly a reset if that doesn't cure it. IIRC the inverter has two legs that it has to pass through and it sounds like one of them isn't.

Aaron

[Morich]

Whether it is the leg that has inverter involved or the other side may be where i jumped the wrong direction. Left and right are not shown very well on the schematics, so I spotted the GFCI that they mentioned not getting power in and may not have gotten close to being the right section as the other side has GFCI but doesn't run through the inverter. What they have is showing some differences in what the drawings seem to show----OR I'm still confused about where things go.

Most of the time when I've gotten very deep into drawings it was the middle of the night with nobody else around so I could just set there and try to make sense of what I was seeing compared to what the drawings showed and eventually I had to get the two together. Sometimes it took a couple days and nights before I got my act together with the drawings!
It's lots harder to do when we are not Both looking at the same stuff! Just the simple stuff like which way is the left side can get into a mess if we are facing different directions!

[Mike M]

Ok. Good news ( maybe !). The plugs on the passenger side beginning with the shower room and including the galley are now working. I pushed the gfi reset in the shower room yet one more time and it reset!

Regarding the plug issue on the driver side beginning with the the plug in the toilet room, plug under the dinette and the next plug under a desk area next to the TV is powered by the breaker Main Box side ( left side) and the 11th position counting from the left.

I tested the hot screw on that breaker and it shows hot. I tested the black wires on the GFI which i am pretty sure is the first plug in line from the breaker. No voltage with either a single point tester or a volt meter on the hot or black side on either recepticle termininal The interesting part is that the green GFI light is dimly lit. (That’s how i found the correct breaker by seeing when the greeen light when out). I ran a long jumper wire from the neutral buss bar to the neutral side of the GFI plug and still nothing.

The mystery continues!!

I am ready to try jumper wires from the hot side of the breaker and the neutral buss bar to that first plug and see what happens

[Morich]

Getting down to making it work!
This sounds like the circuit that is still dead, correct?

If you take the wires off this GFCI which seems to have a dim green light, you should be able to put a meter on the hot and neutral from the breaker box and see near 110 VAC.
If not, try moving one probe over to the ground wire where you should see the AC if it is a neutral wire open.
If you still do not get AC power, then you need to locate a hot power wire, like on the other side of the RV and Go to both neutral and ground wires at the defective outlet to see you get a 110AC reading when using a different hot wire!
This last test is to decide if the hot wire in the defective is the true cause of the problem as well as verify that both neutral and ground wires are good to that point.

If not finding power, neutral and ground wires all go, then I would move to the breaker and check that breaker 11th from left and look at both the hot, ground, and neutral of that romex that I would expect to be white and labeled BRN!

It seems it has to be a bad connection at the breaker box or at the GFCI.
Check wiring on the GFCI is correct as the dim green light sounds odd!

Just as devil's advocate? Possible there was a defective GFCI and something different when you changed to the new one? Possible the labels or contact points are different on the new from the old?
Most of us humans are known to do that sort of thing, so I always have to check myself!

[Mike M]

You nailed it. Even though it was a new GFCI, I pulled the hot wire off and it had power. I replaced the GFCI and now all plugs in that circuit have power. I can’t thank you enough!!!!

[Mike M]

I forgot the important part. As you suggested, i reset the inverter. Then i had power to the back of the GFI plug. Then i found the new GFCI plug was bad.
Again, thanks!

Do you work for Winnebago?

[Morich]

Originally Posted by Mike M

I forgot the important part. As you suggested, i reset the inverter. Then i had power to the back of the GFI plug. Then i found the new GFCI plug was bad.
Again, thanks!

Do you work for Winnebago?

Not usually! Just when I have one, it seems like it?
I've "retired" several times but laying around the house is not very interesting, so work keeps finding me.
I was doing what might be called consulting on electrical and much of it was drawings of various sorts. Kind of a cross between consulting and consoling?

But then Covid came along and took out that friend and left a son with long Covid that still is a problem after four years, so I just try to stay busy!

[Mike M]

I get what you mean regarding retirement. I retired almost 10 years ago from the fire service and decided to stay busy with various jobs ( all non paid !). If i have an electrical problem again, i hope i can find you on the forum.

So sorry about your friend and son. Those were tough times.

Mike