Electronic noise from external speakers

[thompwil]

A question on a Facebook page from someone with what sounded like a similar problem I’ve been having inspired me to post here for advice. Problem since new, Winnebago tech support acknowledges some units have this problem, however their suggested solution defies logic and only provides limited results by their admission.

The Problem;
Gas water heater, when the burner is lit, causes a loud high pitched electronic noise through the external speakers when they are switched to the outside TV source. There is a TV/Radio source switch in the outside TV cabinet. Change the switch to the dashboard radio and the noise disappears completely. Burner off, noise disappears. Unplug the audio output jack from the outside TV and the noise disappears. No problems when the radio is the source.

Attempted (failed) Solutions;
Twisted power and speaker wires to the amplifier where accessible (under the kitchen sink behind breaker panel). Re-positioned audio leads from TV. Ferrite beads on amplifier power leads. Next is some ferrite beads on the DC power leads to the water heater (fingers crossed).

Winnebago’s suggested fix is replace the speaker wires. This makes no sense to me since the same speaker wires are used by the TV and the radio, but hey, I’ve been wrong before.

I used to just leave it switched to radio until I realized all Bluetooth communications from phone calls or GPS were being broadcast out those speakers when in transit. Lately I just leave the outside TV audio jack unplugged until I figure out the actual solution. Any ideas ???

Thanks
BT

[Lette]

Originally Posted by thompwil

A question on a Facebook page from someone with what sounded like a similar problem I’ve been having inspired me to post here for advice. Problem since new, Winnebago tech support acknowledges some units have this problem, however their suggested solution defies logic and only provides limited results by their admission.

The Problem;
Gas water heater, when the burner is lit, causes a loud high pitched electronic noise through the external speakers when they are switched to the outside TV source. There is a TV/Radio source switch in the outside TV cabinet. Change the switch to the dashboard radio and the noise disappears completely. Burner off, noise disappears. Unplug the audio output jack from the outside TV and the noise disappears. No problems when the radio is the source.

Attempted (failed) Solutions;
Twisted power and speaker wires to the amplifier where accessible (under the kitchen sink behind breaker panel). Re-positioned audio leads from TV. Ferrite beads on amplifier power leads. Next is some ferrite beads on the DC power leads to the water heater (fingers crossed).

Winnebago’s suggested fix is replace the speaker wires. This makes no sense to me since the same speaker wires are used by the TV and the radio, but hey, I’ve been wrong before.

I used to just leave it switched to radio until I realized all Bluetooth communications from phone calls or GPS were being broadcast out those speakers when in transit. Lately I just leave the outside TV audio jack unplugged until I figure out the actual solution. Any ideas ???

Thanks
BT

Did you ever get anyone to respond to this audio noise issue? I have a very similar issue. More to do with the outside switch when TV is selected, noise from the outside speakers occurs?? It did not do this last year so i'm wondering if it is some sort of selection???

[Morich]

This can be a real mystery as it is almost a phantom that causes a "cross" through the air between two wires and since it is not an actual connection, it isn't possible for most of us to test or measure it.

The idea is related to induction where current in one wire causes the electrons in another wire to move and that can appear as noise. Lots of trouble when there is high voltage or lots of current involved but it can also be problems when it is low voltage low current as things are easier to distort and make noise.

The problem is in finding which wire is crossing over into what other wire and stop the spread. The idea is that all wires that carry current have a certain amount of "energy" along the outside of the wire and if that gets into the second wire, possible trouble!

Several ways to try to hunt it down and a handy one we may know about is the coax that we use for TV, as it has the center wire we use and then an outside wire mesh which tends to shield the inner wire. If all the wires to audio/video were shield, there would be little noise trouble but that's not practical.

So beads on the wire that seems suspect like the power wire to the gas solenoid, making a loop in the wire, shielding one wire or the other if you can spot where they might come close together, are some things that "may" help but it's a real game to try to spot sometimes. Sometimes in industry, it comes down to being practical to just run a new wire in some other location but that's not good for your case.

Sorry to not be any more helpful/hopeful but that's about all I've got!

[thompwil]

So far nothing has worked. In addition to the ferrite beads installed everywhere, I replaced the cheap, ridiculously long TV audio cables with good shielded ones. I recently purchased an EMF detector for another job that I may try just for laughs too. When time permits I'm going to connect my oscilloscope to the speaker wires to determine the frequency of the noise then try to trace it down that way. I'm fairly certain it is originating from the TV since pulling out the audio cables from it causes it it disappear, perhaps a ground loop of some sort. It's on the back burner for now, I'm fighting other battles at the moment that are not RV related.

[Lette]

Originally Posted by thompwil

So far nothing has worked. In addition to the ferrite beads installed everywhere, I replaced the cheap, ridiculously long TV audio cables with good shielded ones. I recently purchased an EMF detector for another job that I may try just for laughs too. When time permits I'm going to connect my oscilloscope to the speaker wires to determine the frequency of the noise then try to trace it down that way. I'm fairly certain it is originating from the TV since pulling out the audio cables from it causes it it disappear, perhaps a ground loop of some sort. It's on the back burner for now, I'm fighting other battles at the moment that are not RV related.

I'm at a loss too! It started after we closed it up last year. My setting outside was on TV and all of a sudden one Saturday morning we heard the bizarre sounds coming from outside. Opened the door and it was coming from our Vista 31BE outdoor speakers (under my winter cover) . Flipping the switch to Speakers eliminated the problem. However, when I now play music inside I get music outside of course!! I was hoping for it to be just a setting...:-( Now it sounds like Winnebego design issue. I have not changed anything for wiring TV's or sounds and this is a real trouble shooting challenge.

[thompwil]

Originally Posted by Lette

I'm at a loss too! It started after we closed it up last year. My setting outside was on TV and all of a sudden one Saturday morning we heard the bizarre sounds coming from outside. Opened the door and it was coming from our Vista 31BE outdoor speakers (under my winter cover) . Flipping the switch to Speakers eliminated the problem. However, when I now play music inside I get music outside of course!! I was hoping for it to be just a setting...:-( Now it sounds like Winnebego design issue. I have not changed anything for wiring TV's or sounds and this is a real trouble shooting challenge.

Did you happen to notice if your water heater was on? Ours only makes the noise when the speakers are switched to the TV and the gas water heater flame is on. When the flame is on the noise is there, when the water heater goes off the noise stops. If I unplug the audio cables from the TV the noise stops too. There is some relationship between the two. I bought a kit with an assortment of ferrite bead sizes and have them everywhere. I installed ferrite beads onto the coil wires for the gas valve with no improvement. Installed ferrite beads onto the power feed to the water heater control board, beads onto the power feed to the speaker power amp, and even the speaker wires with no improvement. It's a real head scratcher. Next step is the DC converter 12 volt power wires, heck might as well shotgun everything while I'm at it.

[thompwil]

I finally got to test my ground loop isolator today. I installed it last fall but was not able to try it out until today.

Anyway, the problem is fixed without a doubt, 100%, the problem is gone.

A 12 dollar ground loop isolator between the TV input to the power amp and no more noise. Sound from the TV is just fine too.

Glad that's over with...

[Morich]

Like the old boss used to get when askiing how long it takes to fix it ?

Just a couple minutes. But it may take three weeks to find it!

Good to see a guy that works long enough to get itdone!! Congrats on dedication ....

[Lette]

Originally Posted by thompwil

I finally got to test my ground loop isolator today. I installed it last fall but was not able to try it out until today.

Anyway, the problem is fixed without a doubt, 100%, the problem is gone.

A 12 dollar ground loop isolator between the TV input to the power amp and no more noise. Sound from the TV is just fine too.

Glad that's over with...

Glad to here it! I just opened mine up……where did you plug this GLI IN. Outside Tv I assume…..that’s where my switch is….

[thompwil]

Originally Posted by Lette

Glad to here it! I just opened mine up……where did you plug this GLI IN. Outside Tv I assume…..that’s where my switch is….

On mine, there is an access panel under the kitchen sink attached with a few screws. The amplifier that drives the outside speakers is right behind this panel along with a bunch of other wires, etc.. The ground loop isolator accepts the RCA audio plugs from the TV, then has RCA type outputs that plug back into the amplifier. The amplifier is small, about the size of a pack of cigarettes. The isolator goes between the amplifier and the TV audio inputs.

[Lette]

Originally Posted by thompwil

On mine, there is an access panel under the kitchen sink attached with a few screws. The amplifier that drives the outside speakers is right behind this panel along with a bunch of other wires, etc.. The ground loop isolator accepts the RCA audio plugs from the TV, then has RCA type outputs that plug back into the amplifier. The amplifier is small, about the size of a pack of cigarettes. The isolator goes between the amplifier and the TV audio inputs.

Thank you. I will have to dig for mine...I just purchased the isolator ....hopefully I have the same results..:-)