Informed opinions on coach selection

[goldwingerx2]

When we were at the GNR talking with our dealer, they had a Winnebago Rep come over and he is who told us that it would cost a lot of money to delete or change anything in the Solie. The sofa is the only thing we do not like. We have talked to others who have that type of sofa in Journey's etc and they all do not like it.

edit: This was the 2014 GNR.

[Mike and Cha]

Don't lock yourself into one brand. Do your research by reading all the different manufacturer forums on IRV2. Read what people like/dislike about their MH's, maintenance issues, what goes wrong, how they are delivered, customer service, how much downtime getting it fixed, quality ect. You will start to form your own opinion as to what is important to you. Then go out and look at them and drive as many as you can, this will further develope your opinion.

New vs Used, I would personally go with new. The money you have to spend you can easily buy a new MH that has all the things you want. Alot of people will argue that you will save thousands buying used, not always true, moreso that you want a 2014. We actually bought ours new for about $2000 more than a used 2013 with 10,000 miles on it(and that was their bottom line as to price). I would rather have a new one than to take the chance of buying someone elses problems. During the recession people were dumping MH's left and right as they could not afford them and there were some good deals. In this economy the used deals are not as good and they may be dumping them for other reasons. We had very few minor issues to work out, mostly adjustment type stuff, have had it for one year, spent over 100 nights in it, put 8000 miles on it with virtually no issues. As to the people who say you will lose thousands due to depriciation, first of all you don't lose a dime if you don't sell it, and secondly that is not always true if you buy a quality unit. But no MH of any type is a good financial investment, they will all depriciate, but it is a good investment in your lifestyle.

Look at the Newmar Canyon Stars, they have everything you are looking for, bath and a half, 3 TV's, L-shaped couch, fireplace, heatpumps, fold out couch for extra people, plus the dinette makes into a bed, quality cabinets and build ect. Plenty of storage space and you could easily full time in it. We have been on two one month trips so far and have been very comfortable, and like you we take the grandkids with us when we can. It drives great with no after market components needed. It is all how the manufacturer engineers the MH to the chassis. With just a little negotiating you can get this type MH well within your budget. We took two years doing our research but really ended up with a MH that fit our needs the best. Good luck on your search, that's ahlf the fun.

[Gordon Dewald]

Based on what you have defined for usage I would suggest you consider Floor Plan first. Wander around dealers or RV shows and sit in as many different models as possible. Ditch the salesman if you can and just sit there and pretend you are living in it. And here is a chair for you, and this rocking chair is for you and this is for you. Now look up, way up - wooops sorry wrong show.

How do you anticipate using the coach, how often will you have guests? It sounds like a bath and half is a good idea.

No matter where you go at some point the weather will keep you indoors for periods of time. Is there room to lay out hobbies and still have room to prepare meals and relax? Is there adequate room for preparing meals? Can one watch a movie while the other watches a sporting event without conflicting sound?

Washer/dryer is a must. Stackable

Once you determine floor plan you will have determined the length requirements.

Then determine your comfort level with price and go out and get what you want.

[f14av8r]

Wow, what a great discussion. Here's a few of my thoughts.
First, used vs new. We bought our 2010 Winnebago Journey new, literally right off the showroom floor. It was awesome having the warranty in place and knowing we were the only owners. That said, I'll never buy new again. You should look past that new home feeling and really focus on what you want. One of the reasons I won't buy new again is because even with a new coach there will be a long list of things you will have to do to make the coach really comfortable. Window awnings, tow modifications, better batteries, mud flaps and all the little accessories that add up quickly. If you can find a good used motorhome that somebody has already done all that work on you'll fare much better. The operative word is "good" of course. I'd never buy a used coach that doesn't have a complete set of maintenance records. If an owner can't show you all that, just walk away. I recently saw a post by a used buyer that didn't even get the manuals with his purchase. That's a sure sign the previous owner just didn't give crap about their coach. Buy used. Find a coach that was well cared for, that somebody else put all the after-market upgrades on and that has a good maintenance record. Note, I say record, not necessarily history. A coach can have a substantial maintenance history and still be in great shape. Maybe the owner has already worked all the bugs out and now you'll have a nice long run of repair free enjoyment. I've never, ever met a new motorhome owner that hasn't had to make their way through a lot of minor and sometimes major punch-list items. Let the other guy suck up all that work and the depreciation.

If you buy used, get a professional survey of the coach unless you really know what to look for. It will cost a few hundred dollars but could save you a lot of grief. Yacht and airplane owners never buy without a survey. You're buying a land yacht - get a survey.

My second thought would be to your planned usage. Sleeping 4 adults and a child in your motorhome will be close quarters. Sure, you can do it for a few nights and we have often but don't plan on that working on any extended trips. It's a real pain making that fold-up bed every night and you can't move around the coach at all once that thing is deployed. Follow the old rule - 6 for drinks, 4 for dinner, and two for the night. Lot's of KOA's have those nice little cabins that can allow you to get some time apart when it might be most appreciated.

Also, based on your described usage, I'd agree with everyone else that you are in the market for a gas coach. And, I heartily endorse both Winnebago and the Adventurer. The Adventurer has a floorpan that lives large and is very popular. Had we not gone diesel, we'd have bought an Adventurer.

Best of luck with your search!

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by goldwingerx2

We have a 2012 Itasca 33C and love it. We have over 36,000 miles on it and have had no problems. The problem with a DP is the high cost of maintenance with the miles you put on it. We are probably at the point that it would/might pay us to go that way. We do not like the front entry that most DP have as the passenger chair is always in the way. We like the Solie/Forza except for the sofa which to us is awkward. The most import thing about any MH in our opinion is the floorplan. If it doesn't work you will not like the coach. Each brand has good and not so good about them. Would we buy another Winnebago yes if the floorpan fit. The floorplan that we like at this point is the Palazzo 35.1 but we like the free standing dinette which I would remove and replace with free standing table in the same location. I have done this on our Itasca 33C and love the flexibility that it provides. Used a drop leaf table from Ikea and would do the same again.

Good luck with your all the choices you have. When you decide ENJOY.

This is my third DP. I don't understand people who talk of the "high cost of maintenance". What am I not doing that costs so much?

Rick Y

[goldwingerx2]

We have had DP in the past also. The have more filters, require more oil, just the whole system is more expensive than a gasser. Do I like them yes, I do, but if you are not putting a lot of miles a year (say 7500) on them the cost is very expensive compared to gas. Now that we are retired and putting over 10,000 miles on a unit it is more practical.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by goldwingerx2

We have had DP in the past also. The have more filters, require more oil, just the whole system is more expensive than a gasser. Do I like them yes, I do, but if you are not putting a lot of miles a year (say 7500) on them the cost is very expensive compared to gas. Now that we are retired and putting over 10,000 miles on a unit it is more practical.

I see your point but... When I do my first oil change I send a sample to the lab for testing. Then I use Royal Purple and extend the oil changes to as needed by test results. Engine filters are also changed ever few years but I have never had a problem with fuel issues as others have. I think of the cold weather problems gassers can have and the advantage of the DP power, I still see the DP as the better power plant choice. Just my opinion.

Rick Y

[Tom-NC]

Jerrichorick,

I don't know what you are talking about gassers having problem Winter.

Diesels have more a problem in Winter than any other coach. Diesel fuel gels in cold weather and when diesels idle they loose heat from the engine. DP also are more expensive to maintain than gas units.

As for power I'm on my 4th Gas unit and I have never had any problems with power and climbing hills, in fact I have passed a few diesels going up hills. It all depends how you drive the vehicle and if you use your gears at all.

Lastly a gas unit is the way to go unless you intend to drive 100K miles or better as you won't get your money out of it plus diesel fuel is higher than gas.

Enjoy!

[RodgerS]

I think you are getting pretty good advice here. However, mhs are very complex and the way I look at it is that you can't really rely on anyone's informed opinion. You really need to inform yourself and that takes a lot of time.

Just too little information about you and way too many choices. Also, technology has changed and not all experienced rvers are on top of their technology. Buying new is fraught with problems and so is buying old.

The newer Ford F-53 mh chassis and v10 engine were big time game changers providing excellent options, and fine technology, particularly up to the mid 30's lengths. At about 39 or 40 feet, the dp reigns supreme. Below 30s you have some great diesel opportunities as well with a 32 foot option as well and not all diesels are dp. Yeah, ok, there are good mid 30's diesels as well. Like I say, lots of choices.

Many of the gas vs diesel arguments are out of date and there are many complex factors to consider anyway. Some diesel owners will talk like diesel suspension are perfect, yet if you read broadly you find out they have lots of suspension problems they have to deal with. Suspensions are complex.

You may not know what you need until you have been on the road doing the rv thing. There are lots of owners who have owned multiple rigs and not only learned about what they need as they go, but their needs changed as their ages and situations changed.

But, I think some of the advice is excellent. You have to sort it out yourself and expand on it. If you can't do that on your own, well, you just accept more risk.

I also might add that it is very human to want others to make similar decisions (self-justifying) and that for some issues, there is no absolute answer or one right way. It is likely you can be happy with a variety of solutions. There are a lot of compromises and limitations to deal with, regardless.

RVs and families go together well.

[RodgerS]

By the way, just to show you how confusing it can be, I know of an older experienced rv couple who had a 40+ diesel pusher, who changed to a 25 ft Pleasure Way Mercedes Sprinter. So don't assume you "must" have something that someone else feels they "must" have.

[Deny]

Originally Posted by mrmrsbb

I intend to purchase a motorhome this winter or spring -- not considering any thing older than a 2014. I believe there are lots of well informed folks on this forum that can help us narrow the search. Budget under 150K.

Need room for two adults plus two dogs (one small one large). We would occasionally bring our grand child and parents with us on weekend trips. Will use on as many weekends as we can and vacations of up to four weeks in duration. We like coaches we've seen that have a residential feel with fireplace etc.

The main struggle is if it makes sense to buy a coach that has higher quality components but not as good a floor plan or one that has a better for plan but lower quality components.

You can get a pretty nice new gas Winnebago for $150. No trade discounts are better than 20%. I have a 2014 View with 27K miles that I bought new 17 mos ago. I am very happy with the quality.

Don't try to make a science of it- Just pick out the one that you like, and make sure it fits-then go for it!

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Tom-NC

Jerrichorick,

I don't know what you are talking about gassers having problem Winter.

Diesels have more a problem in Winter than any other coach. Diesel fuel gels in cold weather and when diesels idle they loose heat from the engine. DP also are more expensive to maintain than gas units.

As for power I'm on my 4th Gas unit and I have never had any problems with power and climbing hills, in fact I have passed a few diesels going up hills. It all depends how you drive the vehicle and if you use your gears at all.

Lastly a gas unit is the way to go unless you intend to drive 100K miles or better as you won't get your money out of it plus diesel fuel is higher than gas.

Enjoy!

And you just proved my point about loyalty. We, down here in the lower 48 have few problems with RV diesel jelling. But one post on irv2 told a story of being in Forest City, IA at Winnebago for repairs. The temps got down to -44. The coach still worked fine. His water filter froze.

If a gasser sits for long periods with no use chances are good that shellacking will happen and there is another chance that the gas will go stale without Stable or some other product. Diesels have water separators because the fuel floats on water. Shellack buildup is not a problem.

I have read many posts of folks with gassers beefing up the suspension because of poor drive-ability; swaying, leaning... The suspension of a DP is very stable for the most part. A steering stabilizer may be added and some folks do a proportioning valve on the air springs, but not much else.

Fuel mileage per HP is about the same or a little worse in a gasser. I get around 7.5 mpg on a 380HP Cummins. But that is the average in the Rockies and Cascades. On the flats 10 to 14 mpg is not unusual.

But, each type of coach is built to satisfy someone. We happen to be old AND full-timing. Comfort stopped or on the go are important to us. The feel of the DP is more appealing to our senses.

Many happy trails,
Rick Y

[mrmrsbb]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

And you just proved my point about loyalty. We, down here in the lower 48 have few problems with RV diesel jelling. But one post on irv2 told a story of being in Forest City, IA at Winnebago for repairs. The temps got down to -44. The coach still worked fine. His water filter froze.

If a gasser sits for long periods with no use chances are good that shellacking will happen and there is another chance that the gas will go stale without Stable or some other product. Diesels have water separators because the fuel floats on water. Shellack buildup is not a problem.

I have read many posts of folks with gassers beefing up the suspension because of poor drive-ability; swaying, leaning... The suspension of a DP is very stable for the most part. A steering stabilizer may be added and some folks do a proportioning valve on the air springs, but not much else.

Fuel mileage per HP is about the same or a little worse in a gasser. I get around 7.5 mpg on a 380HP Cummins. But that is the average in the Rockies and Cascades. On the flats 10 to 14 mpg is not unusual.

But, each type of coach is built to satisfy someone. We happen to be old AND full-timing. Comfort stopped or on the go are important to us. The feel of the DP is more appealing to our senses.

Many happy trails,
Rick Y

If I could afford a new or near new DP I'd go that route - however the reality is that I can't. Since I live in minnesota we know how to deal with cold weather and if I was full timing I would just go south --LOL

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

And you just proved my point about loyalty. We, down here in the lower 48 have few problems with RV diesel jelling. But one post on irv2 told a story of being in Forest City, IA at Winnebago for repairs. The temps got down to -44. The coach still worked fine. His water filter froze.

If a gasser sits for long periods with no use chances are good that shellacking will happen and there is another chance that the gas will go stale without Stable or some other product. Diesels have water separators because the fuel floats on water. Shellack buildup is not a problem.

I have read many posts of folks with gassers beefing up the suspension because of poor drive-ability; swaying, leaning... The suspension of a DP is very stable for the most part. A steering stabilizer may be added and some folks do a proportioning valve on the air springs, but not much else.

Fuel mileage per HP is about the same or a little worse in a gasser. I get around 7.5 mpg on a 380HP Cummins. But that is the average in the Rockies and Cascades. On the flats 10 to 14 mpg is not unusual.

But, each type of coach is built to satisfy someone. We happen to be old AND full-timing. Comfort stopped or on the go are important to us. The feel of the DP is more appealing to our senses.

Many happy trails,
Rick Y

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you on several points. As for the temperatures not affecting a diesel engine, fuel gelling is a big problem. Straight #2 diesel gels at about 18*F. In most northern states dealers change to a "Winter blend" (a mix of #1 and #2 diesel) in November to avoid gelling. Even straight #1 diesel is only good down to -20*F so unless the motorhome in Forest City you're referring to has a tank heater, and an inline fuel heater I think someone's giving you false information. I can believe the wind chills were down to -44*F, but unless the tank was warm enough to keep the fuel liquid, there was an inline heater that doesn't allow the fuel temperature to drop, and a block heater on the engine itself I doubt that motorhome is going anywhere.

At -44*F very few trucks equipped with tank, line, and block heaters are traveling down the road. The air flowing over the fuel tanks cools them to the point the fuel starts to gel regardless of the size heater installed. I can't count the number of trucks I've towed to the garage, and the number of fuel filters I've had to warm in an attempt to get them running.

Another problem is the air braking system. You need to have heated, automatically dumping moisture separators. If water gets trapped and freezes in the separators there is no air flow to unlock the parking brakes. I'm not saying these things don't exist but it would have to be a top of the line chassis not an entry level model.

As for a gas engine shellacking, in all the years I was in the repair business I never saw it happen to anything that sat less than 10 years. The fuel may go stale and smell bad when it burns, but adding fresh fuel will generally solve the problem.

A problem associated with diesel fuel that doesn't happen with gasoline is organic sludge sometimes referred to as "algae". It can be a problem as bad or worse than stale gasoline. Both systems have additives to prevent or resolve the problems. The only difference is which one you use.

It seems that there are those that see all gas powered chassis as the same, and all diesel powered chassis the same. There are many differences other than what type of fuels they burn.

[Tom-NC]

Hi,


Thank you Hikerdog for your last post.

As for suspension, suppose and air bag gets a leak due to rust, you are riding on the axle? Suppose you are not familiar with air brakes and run down a hill losing air?

In conclusion I would rather have a Winnebago Gas unit and if going full time get a 35 to 38 footer with a floor plan that you like. The Ford F-53 doesn't need any add on suspension items as it has everything.

Good luck!!!!!!!!

[RodgerS]

The gas vs diesel discussion has been upended.

The newer Ford F-53 class A super duty chassis and V10 significantly narrowed the suspension and performance gap and, for example, the Newmar Canyon Star has a diesel quality interior.

If I owned a dp, I would be pretty grumpy, as unless you want to own 40 feet plus or a 34 ft Sprinter, the gas motorhomes owners got game.

If you are buying low to mid 30's, you have a valid choice as to a new gas or a much older, longer dp. In fact, the new gas choice runs away with it...unless you want to live full-time in it and want 40+ feet.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by mrmrsbb

If I could afford a new or near new DP I'd go that route - however the reality is that I can't. Since I live in minnesota we know how to deal with cold weather and if I was full timing I would just go south --LOL

Yea... SOUTH. Record cold this winter. [Moderator Edit]

I do hope at some point you can upgrade to a older TLC DP and that Minnesota winters will suffer without you . I originate from the deep North East. I am now in CA and 45* is still cold to me . Next month I'll be in Southern Cal and I hope even warmer weather.

Winter in the cold of the north is not fun for the working guy. That one night you forget to plug in the car engine heater is the one when the temps drop to THE record low and you absolutely can't be late for work . I don't miss one moment of it. Thank God there are folks like you able to keep our great country great through your endeavors. Thank YOU .

Happy and warm trails,
Rick Y

[mrmrsbb]

Rick. Newer cars don't have the issues that use to be common in winter sub zero temps. That and AAA help.

Would like to retire (I'm 75) but retirement income is too low to stay in our home and mortgage still exceeds what I could sell it at. If I could sell the house full timing would be an option. Value has been going up so perhaps in a couple of years we can do something other than what I described.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by mrmrsbb

Rick. Newer cars don't have the issues that use to be common in winter sub zero temps. That and AAA help.

Would like to retire (I'm 75) but retirement income is too low to stay in our home and mortgage still exceeds what I could sell it at. If I could sell the house full timing would be an option. Value has been going up so perhaps in a couple of years we can do something other than what I described.

I am sorry that you got caught in that trap. At your age it is impossible for you NOT to have contributed to helping our country grow economically. I wish you could enjoy the rewards of your years of hard work more fully. I hope time for the housing market to heal is in your favor. This RVing life is great.

Stay warm.

Rick Y