LED Lighting

[RocketDork]

I went to a RV show here in town on Friday. Lots of coaches and a few vendors (wish there had been more).

One of the vendors had some LED replacement bulbs on sale. I paid about $17 for one of them just to see how they light up the inside of the coach. I'm happy to say, they do light up the inside of the coach.

The bulb was a 200 lumens 2.5W Star Lights bulb. It has 9 surface mount LEDs on a rotating head. The rotating head allows you to aim the light in the direction you want it.

I installed it in one of the light fixtures. I had a little trouble getting the cover back on, the bulb base was just slightly too large, but it wasn't anything a judicious use of force couldn't fix.

The 2.5W bulb was about the same level of light that a normal incandescent bulb had, however, it was very harsh. The light was very white without a hint of yellow in it.

So while it lit things up nicely, the light wasn't pleasant.

I did a search of the interweb and discovered that there are several companies that sell replacement bulbs for the 1156 type lights (really all the common bases), and there are even some that advertise a cool white version of the bulb.

I'm thinking about ordering one of them to see if the level of illumination and light color are suitable.

Has anyone else had any experiences with LED lighting?

[MrTransistor]

Hello Rocket (Dork?),

See if this thread has the information you are looking for.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/led-lights-56500.html

[RocketDork]

That link is mostly about brake lights and such...I'm looking for people with experience in Interior lighting.

Thanks though.

[oldcrowlarry]

I bought four for my previous class c. Moved them to class A when we traded last June. I love them for the white light in the mirrored areas at sinks/dressing areas and one over the kitchen sink for the food preparation. The wife and I both like them there. Not sure as I'd want them throughout as they are a harsh white light.

[AFChap]

I ordered some LED lights last year to replace the 1383 reading lamps in our coach ... DW goes through several a year at her normal spot on the couch. After a couple of days of trial she told me to send 'em back. In spite of their claim to be flood style and for reading, the beam of light was considerably more narrow than the 1383 bulb and not as
"warm." I might consider them in the future for accent lighting (in a china cabinet, etc) but not over the couches as reading lights.

[MrTransistor]

Super Bright has a bright white replacement bulb that has their part number ‘1156-WLX5’ for $29.95 that works very well as a replacement for the 1383. I have four installed and usually leave one on in the living room at night and it uses so little current that it is barely warm to the touch. Of the 13 or 14 different types of LED replacements I have from Super Bright, I have been quite happy with all but one that seems to have opened up. It was a green WLED-G6 used in the Tachometer of my Bonneville.

These are the only three outfits I have dealt with.

SUPER BRIGHT LEDS - LED Lights & Accessories
LED Light Bulbs, Task Lighting, PAR38, Office Lighting
welcome to jclampstand.com!

[DAN L]

Originally Posted by RocketDork

I went to a RV show here in town on Friday. Lots of coaches and a few vendors (wish there had been more).

One of the vendors had some LED replacement bulbs on sale. I paid about $17 for one of them just to see how they light up the inside of the coach. I'm happy to say, they do light up the inside of the coach.

The bulb was a 200 lumens 2.5W Star Lights bulb. It has 9 surface mount LEDs on a rotating head. The rotating head allows you to aim the light in the direction you want it.

I installed it in one of the light fixtures. I had a little trouble getting the cover back on, the bulb base was just slightly too large, but it wasn't anything a judicious use of force couldn't fix.

The 2.5W bulb was about the same level of light that a normal incandescent bulb had, however, it was very harsh. The light was very white without a hint of yellow in it.

So while it lit things up nicely, the light wasn't pleasant.

I did a search of the interweb and discovered that there are several companies that sell replacement bulbs for the 1156 type lights (really all the common bases), and there are even some that advertise a cool white version of the bulb.

I'm thinking about ordering one of them to see if the level of illumination and light color are suitable.

Has anyone else had any experiences with LED lighting?

i replaced one of my dinette reading lights with a 1156 base 19 led light reference:
24-LED 1156/1157 Bulb Specifications
i got it from a local auto parts company for $10.
the light is not focused enough for reading and is too blue for my taste. i added aluminum foil inside the fixture which makes this light adequate for computer use and general illumination. it is supposed to last for 10k hours. the 1383 that it replaced was expensive and didn't last very long.
the url goes to the 24 led page instead of the 19 led page. they have 30 led lamps also

[RocketDork]

Just a quick follow up. I've done some searching on the web and decided to try a few of the products I found. I'll let you guys know if I like them or not when they arrive.

The first light I'll be trying is;
www.LEDwholesalers.com - BA15s Warm White 8-30V DC & 12V AC 60LED 5Watt 300 Lumen

This is the second;
www.LEDwholesalers.com - BA15s Bayonet Base18LED SMD5050 Bulb Warm White

And a third from Command Electronics.

My goal, find a light that provides enough light and the right "color" of light. The lower power light will hopefully be enough for the wall sconces in the bedroom.

Just trying a few things.

[two-niner]

RockerDork:
Please do keep us posted. While our flashlights, etc., are led and GREAT, I have yet to read on any forum where RVers were happy with leds.(interior)
I would like to use them. Thanks.

Kerry

[RocketDork]

I received the LED lights today and like an excited child on christmas morning, I opened the packages and examined the lights. I'll review each of them in this post on a very subjective basis. I hope to be able to do a more in depth review that would include actual power draw at several voltages and an AB type comparison of the actual light intensity...

I ordered each of the three bulbs on the same night, 1-30-10 and received all three today, 2-5-10.

LEDWholesalers.com shipped via USPS and charged $7.92 shipping and handling for the two bulbs. The package was a padded envelope about 4"x6". The two bulbs were further wrapped in a foam padding and each was in an anti-static bag. The envelope also included a packing list.

Command Electronics shipped via UPS and charged $8.50 shipping and handling. The package was a small box about 4"x6"x2.5" filled with packing peanuts. The "bulb" was also wrapped in foam padding and packaged in an anti-static bag. The packing list was found on the outside of the box.

The first bulb I installed was from LEDWholesalers.com. It was the 18 LED bulb in the link in the post above. It is rated at 3.6Watts, 252 Lumens and cost $16. I installed it in one of the double fixtures in my coach without any issues. The color of the light was very close to the incandescent bulb I had removed. It was not harsh and I found the color to be very acceptable. The amount of light given off was slightly less than the incandescent bulb, but not at all too little light for my tastes. I personally feel that this bulb would easily replace the bulbs in a single or double fixture and most people wouldn't notice a thing.

I also have a couple reading lights above my couch. The fixtures have a very deep style and a standard bulb is very difficult to insert. The bulbs that are in the fixture are a spot light type bulb and are very bright for a reading light. The fixture fits the bulb very closely, and being brass, gets very hot. I've burned my finger on the fixture adjusting the light to aim at my book. The LED bulb was easy to install in the fixture and provided plenty of light to read. A good portion of the light was lost due to the style of construction of the fixture and the bulb. If you look at the link, you'll notice that it has 3 LEDs on the end of the bulb. I think the 3 LED's would suffice for this application.

The second bulb was the 60 LED bulb from LEDWholesalers.com. It is rated at 5W, 300 Lumens and cost $19.50. I installed in the same double fixture as the first bulb. This bulb is about 1/2" longer than the first one, and it made contact with the plastic cover of the fixture. In spite of this, it was very easy to install the cover. As far as my eyes can tell, the color of the light was identical to the first bulb and only very slightly different than an incandescent bulb. This one was brighter than the first, but only slightly. I also installed it in the reading light. This bulb has no LED's on the front surface and as a result, the light seemed dimmer than the first bulb. I believe I could have easily read by the light though. I found nothing wrong with the amount of light nor the color, but I would probably go with the first light in my fixtures instead of this one. The 1.4 watt penalty and slight additional cost (it adds up when you consider how many bulbs you'd have to replace) for only very slightly more light give the first bulb an edge in my book.

The third light came from Command Electronics. I didn't provide a link before, information can be found here;
LED Lights of all types manufactured by Command Electronics
This "bulb" is actually a array of 30 LED's that are mounted on a flat PCB. It is rated at 0.47 amps (@12V that is 5.64 Watts), 510 lumens and cost $22.95. I again installed it in the same double fixture. The large PCB that the array of LED's are mounted on would not fit in the fixture without bending the socket away from the mount slightly. Even still, there was barely enough room to fit the light in and install the cover. An inductor on the board was in contact with the socket, and I decided that for purposes of the test, it was OK. Like the first two lights, the color of the light is very close to an incandescent bulb. This bulb was very bright. To my uncalibrated eyes, it appeared to be as bright as 2 incandescent bulbs. I feel like this bulb could easily replace 2 incandescent bulbs.

I found two things that detracted from the bulb. The first thing I noticed upon taking the light from its anti-static bag was that the two wires for power are surface mount soldered to the board. There is no relief from the bending forces on the actual conductors, as a result, most of the conductor wires in the multi-stranded wire were broken. There were clearly enough wires to carry the current to the bulb and it did function well. This connection appears to be very fragile and I worry that it wouldn't stand up well to the vibration and jolts that are common without some type of reinforcement. I will likely remove the wires, add some of my own and use a blob of epoxy to hold them in place. The second thing was the fit in the existing fixture. While it would be very nice to have the bulb fit with out trouble in the existing fixture, I also understand that making something like this fit in every available fixture is impossible. Command electronics does offer a full replacement single bulb fixture and light for only $12 more. In my case, I'd likely replace the double fixture in my coach with a single Command Electronics fixture.

It was interesting to note that based on appearance only, the 18 LED bulb and the 30 LED bulb used the same surface mount LED's.

One more point that I'll mention. The lights from LEDWholesaler.com are rated at 8-30 volts DC and 12V AC and the one from Command Electronics was rated at 10-30V (no mention of AC or DC) on the packaging, and 12-30V DC in the online literature. I'll verify operating voltage and current demands in the near future.

In summary, all three bulbs were the "right" color for my tastes and all three were plenty bright given the right circumstances. The first 18 LED bulb from LEDWholesalers.com would and will work very well for me in a single bulb fixture. At a slight cost savings and a small power savings, I believe it is the "right" bulb for me where a single fixture is mounted. The Command electronics bulb, in my eyes, is a replacement for a double bulb fixture, but due to the fit problems in my existing fixtures, I'll likely replace the entire fixture in the three locations I have a double bulb fixture. All three would save substantial amounts of power over a standard incandescent fixture. I dry camp most of the time in my coach, so power saving is a major consideration for me.

[UFO Pilot]

I don't want to hijack your thread but thought I would tell you about my recent experience with LED lights. I bought 3 different bulbs from one vendor in Quartzsite. I replaced the first bulb and then turned the light switch on. It did not light up but another nearby fixture did. I replaced the bulb with the original and all worked as they should. I then replaced the bulb in a different fixture, when I turned the switch on the same thing happened as the first time. The light with the new LED didn't work but another fixture nearby did. I tried the same thing with a third fixture and got the same results.

I returned the LED's and got a refund. I am still curious as to why my light fixtures reacted as they did.

[Jeeperrmartin]

I too had bought a LED to try out. It blew the circuit breaker. I got a different one, it would not light, and a 3rd type still no worky.

The dealer said the polarity was probably wired up wrong.

A friend of mine got one, and said it was difficult to read under, so he got several others to turn on to help out.

I can't tell you how many leds were in it though.

[RocketDork]

wthomas1 I can't even begin to understand why the LED bulb would make different lights in your coach. That just doesn't make sense to me at all. I can't even begin to offer any suggestions.

Jeeperrmartin, it sounds like you got some low quality stuff...3 in a row that didn't work? That seems like more than a mistake.

My experience with LED bulbs extends to what is in this thread.

[UFO Pilot]

More than one person has told me to check the wiring at each fixture. They all said that LED lights won't work correctly if the wires are reversed. When I get the MH out of storage I will check the wiring on the fixtures.

[Jeeperrmartin]

My bulb experience was in Quartzsite also.

[SCVJeff]

Originally Posted by wthomas1

I don't want to hijack your thread but thought I would tell you about my recent experience with LED lights. I bought 3 different bulbs from one vendor in Quartzsite. I replaced the first bulb and then turned the light switch on. It did not light up but another nearby fixture did. I replaced the bulb with the original and all worked as they should. I then replaced the bulb in a different fixture, when I turned the switch on the same thing happened as the first time. The light with the new LED didn't work but another fixture nearby did. I tried the same thing with a third fixture and got the same results.

I returned the LED's and got a refund. I am still curious as to why my light fixtures reacted as they did.

Not to hijack the thread (but you started it.. ) There seems to be a whole generation of LED lamp assemblies with defective regulators on-board. Most work on battery, but the trouble starts on shore power when the charger is in-line. I had 3 replaced in Quartzsite as well. The new generation run DC<>DC converters that will run from 10-17 (ish) volts, and still others are running full wave bridges that don't care about polarity. I think we're still on the leading edge of LED development, what works, what doesn't, and what it takes to keep them n service without issue.

[mrschwarz]

Unlike DC incandescent bulbs, LEDs care about polarity. If the wires in your fixture are reversed, they won't work. A solution is to reverse the leads to the light fixture or to reverse the leads on the LEW light, if possible.

[RocketDork]

Not a hijack at all, I wanted to hear about people experience with LED bulbs...I'm hearing it!

[KraigW]

LED's do have polarity, but a simple bit of electronics on the LED board can fix an "incorrect" polarity automatically. Ask your supplier if their board works with either way. If they can't answer, assume polarity counts.

[RocketDork]

Welcome to the board Craig!

You'll notice that Craig is part of Command Electronics.

I've done some further testing today at work (I'm a EE) to measure power requirements of the various bulbs that I have.

I'll begin with the StarLights bulb that I got at the RV Show. As I mentioned it was not really suitable for me due to the color of the light. It has a rating of 2.5W.

Volts Watts
8 - 0.0192
10 - 1.03
10.5 - 1.73
10.75 - 2.18
11 - 2.65
11.25 - 2.68
11.5 - 2.68
11.75 - 2.68
12 - 2.67
13 - 2.67
14 - 2.67
15 - 2.67
18 - 2.68

LED Wholesalers 18 LED Array Rated at 3.6W
Volts Watts
8 - 0.159
10 - 2.23
10.5 - 3.29
10.75 - 2.99
11 - 2.96
11.25 - 2.93
11.5 - 2.91
11.75 - 2.90
12 - 2.89
13 - 2.89
14 - 2.88
15 - 2.89
18 - 2.95

LED Wholesalers.com 60 LED array rated at 5W
Volts Watts
8 - 0.0176
10 - 3.10
10.5 - 4.37
10.75 - 5.11
11 - 5.38
11.25 - 5.52
11.5 - 5.36
11.75 - 5.29
12 - 5.22
13 - 5.17
14 - 5.24
15 - 5.21
18 - 5.29
Command Electronics rated at 0.47 Amps, No wattage rating.
Volts Watts
8 - 0.0288
10 - 2.80
10.5 - 4.23
10.75 - 5.04
11 - 5.90
11.25 - 6.29
11.5 - 5.95
11.75 - 5.85
12 - 5.80
13 - 5.77
14 - 5.81
15 - 5.81
18 - 5.94

"Standard" Incandescent, unknown wattage rating
Volts Watts
8 - 9.12
10 -12.8
10.5 - 13.76
10.75 - 14.30
11 - 14.74
11.25 -15.3
11.5 - 15.8
11.75 - 16.3
12 - 16.8
13 - 19.0
14 - 21.3
15 - 23.7
18 - 31.3

You'll notice that right off the bat, that all the LED bulbs save substantial power over the standard incandescent.

Another thing to notice is where each of the LED bulbs are fully on. This is important because you want the full light at all battery voltages that are commonly seen in your RV. When the power consumption of the LED bulbs stabilized and didn't rise with voltage, I considered the bulb fully on. All were usable and provided adequate light at around 10.5V. None were useable at 8V, even though the LED Wholesalers.com were rated to that voltage. Remember that even though a battery is considered dead at 50% of charge or at about 12.1V (open circuit, Trojan battery is the source), there are times when the voltage will drop below this value. High loads will drop the battery voltage during the time they are present...think about running the Microwave or other high demand devices on the Inverter. So where were those fully on points?

Starlights - 11V
LED Wholesalers 3.6 W - 10.5V
LED Wholesalers 5W - 11.25V
Command Electronics - 11.25V

I don't have any good way to indicate when the bulbs reach their full intensity, or if they provide their full Lumens rating.

The data that I see provides me with important information about where I would like to go.

This is what I notice.

1. The Starlights bulb is closer to 2.75W
2. The 3.6W bulb is actually closer to 3W.
3. The 5W bulb is actually closer to 5.25W
4. I would consider the command electronics bulb to be 5.75 - 6 watts.
5. All the LED bulbs utilize a power supply that makes good use of the energy provided. Notice that the power does not increase as the voltage does. You get the same amount of light no matter if you are on bulk charge at 14.4V or of your batteries are nearly dead.
5. It isn't likely that any of the bulbs will be damaged by overvoltage if your charging system goes bad.

Another interesting point is the "efficiency" of the bulbs. How many lumens per watt are produced? I don't have a way to verify the actual output of these bulbs, so I'll use the MFG stated numbers...

StarLights - 200 lumens @ 2.75W - 72 lumens/W
LED Wholesalers 3.6W - 252 lumens @3W - 84 lumens/W
LED Wholesalers 5W - 300 lumens @ 5.25W - 57 lumens/W
Command Electronics - 510 lumens @ 5.75W - 89 lumens/W

I'm going to hazard a guess here and say that all MFG's of these bulbs aren't actually measuring the lumen output of the bulbs they sell, rather they are taking the LED mfg's number and multiplying by the number of LED's in the bulb. It is common for LED mfg's to quote output at a junction temperature of 25C. It is more than uncommon for the junction to remain at 25C, so output is likely lower than stated.

In summary, I learned a bit about LED lighting here in the last little while. LED bulbs can be polarity agnostic, but some aren't. Coach manufacturers wire lights up backwards...a quality and safety issue if you ask me. While LED lights are still expensive, they are finally getting to the point where they are a drop in replacement for incandescent bulbs. Information about LED bulbs that is truly useful to the consumer is very, very difficult to find. Finally, there is a TON of misinformation about LED bulbs on the web.

My conclusions and plans are to replace the double bulb lights with single bulb Command Electronics fixtures and to replace the bulbs in the single bulb fixtures with the 3.6W LEDWholsalers.com. I think I'll be happy with the amount of power I save, longer battery life, light color, amount of light and value of these two bulbs.

OH, and sorry for the very long posts.