No AC Voltage from Transfer Switch?

[dkoldman]

What could cause no shore power from ATS?

I confirmed 120v on both legs at pedestal for 50, and the 30 and 20 amps legs. (yes with a voltmeter)

I confirmed 120v input voltage on both legs at pedestal for 50, and the 30 and 20 amps legs.

However the opposite side of the connector inside the Southwire Surge Guard is dead on all legs.

This is my first true issue with my coach; so I am all excited about who will answer first. This is 2019 Winnebago 29VE. I have trip plan for in the morning, but right now unless I run my generator I will have zero power.

Here is more context as to what happened and notes that I have on the issue.

1. I had just picked up the coach from Winnebago dealer who installed a new 120v receptacle BEFORE the ATS. That receptacle is hot (120v) when ANY shore power is supplied; so they got that part right.
2. I have called Dealer; so waiting for them to track down technical to call back. The coach is still under Mfg warranty.
3. It has the Southguard Surge Guard Model 40100 120/240 50 Amps 60 HZ

Odd observation... When I first got it home and connected the shore power; the generator tried to come on? It was humming and vibrating pretty good but the genset was NOT running? I went inside and verified that there was no power and manual stop button did nothing to stop the humming. I had to disconnect shore power and it stopped. I have since made a setting change within the AGS - EC - 30 to verify it could sense shore power; it could , and to also tell it that the sensor is now in front (Before) of ATS. Since then the oddity of genset trying to start or vibration has stopped; but there is no shore power through the ATS to confirm.

All ideas welcomed.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Odd observation... When I first got it home and connected the shore power; the generator tried to come on? It was humming and vibrating pretty good but the genset was NOT running?

This is a wild guess, but it almost sounds like the ATS is sending shore power into the generator. There's little difference between a generator/alternator and a motor. I have no idea what happens if you apply power to a generator, because I've never done that, but that's what it sounds like to me.

Did the dealer do work besides installing that outlet? And I'm going to raise my typical concern--how is that protected by a circuit breaker (besides the one on the pedestal)?

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

This is a wild guess, but it almost sounds like the ATS is sending shore power into the generator. There's little difference between a generator/alternator and a motor. I have no idea what happens if you apply power to a generator, because I've never done that, but that's what it sounds like to me.

Did the dealer do work besides installing that outlet? And I'm going to raise my typical concern--how is that protected by a circuit breaker (besides the one on the pedestal)?

They also rewired the 12vdc transformer. This Dealer had previously installed the EC-30. But after several months I realized that the SP sense feature was not working. the 12vdc leads out out of transformer were reversed. Additionally they have transformer plugged in after the ATS so my Genset could never auto start if shore power was lost.

So they had t install a new 120v receptacle BEFORE the ATS and then when the reconnected the 12vdc transformer they had to ensure the two leads were not reversed. They had to run the 12vdc lead from the passenger side of the coach to the back of driver side next to generator. I suspect that is why they wired ir like they did at first because it was less work.

I feel as something inside the ATS is not working anymore?

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I feel as something inside the ATS is not working anymore?

Probably, but my concern was more that whatever interlock exists in an ATS was also not functioning. I'm not even sure that's possible, but it probably could be with mis-wiring.

Assuming you can still fire up the generator, I'd see if you get any voltage reading at the end of the shore cord when the generator is running. That would be consistent with my theory of the odd generator noise you mentioned.

This is the second thread this week on issues with an ATS. Maybe this is an issue like locking hubs and transfer cases on 4X4 trucks where the old systems were more reliable than the electronic pushbutton systems. For RVs that don't have an exterior power inlet which a removable cord plugs into, what's wrong with the old style system where you just plug the shore cord into an outlet from the generator when you disconnect shore power? What needs to be automatic about that? It just requires one minor extra step when disconnecting from power, and is less likely to ruin a camping trip.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Probably, but my concern was more that whatever interlock exists in an ATS was also not functioning. I'm not even sure that's possible, but it probably could be with mis-wiring.

Assuming you can still fire up the generator, I'd see if you get any voltage reading at the end of the shore cord when the generator is running. That would be consistent with my theory of the odd generator noise you mentioned.

This is the second thread this week on issues with an ATS. Maybe this is an issue like locking hubs and transfer cases on 4X4 trucks where the old systems were more reliable than the electronic pushbutton systems. For RVs that don't have an exterior power inlet which a removable cord plugs into, what's wrong with the old style system where you just plug the shore cord into an outlet from the generator when you disconnect shore power? What needs to be automatic about that? It just requires one minor extra step when disconnecting from power, and is less likely to ruin a camping trip.

Generator works perfectly. Inside & Outside. Fires up the Power Management System and you see LEDs tha Genset is on. EC-30 can also now detect (Sense) shore power whereas before it could not. That is because shore power to the ATS is clean.

I took your advice, measured voltage on L1 & L2 with Generator Running.

I get 1.2vac on L1 and 1.0 vac on L2 Since the cord is hardwired, I wrapped the shorecord leads in a towel and placed back into the electrical bay. I attached a picture of what they did to help with the visual.

On the old systems that have shore cord connectors; do they still go to a ATS anyway? Seem like you would need some kind of switch maybe it just a manual toggle someplace? But I agree I wish I could. I f I had that today on my RV, I would still may my trip but carry my 9 year old portable Sinemate 3500. I would run it all day for next two days, maybe only use my Onan during excessive heat. But since my portable genset has to go through the shore cord it will not work on RV today


I need to work on getting it back to the dealer.

Also, you mentioned another thread on the subject, I searched but could not find. Can you give me the link or keyword in title to search for?

Thanks

[Goodspike]

Looking at the picture, what you've been calling a surge guard is also your ATS, and the plug they added in is seemingly directly wired into that, so I don't think it's a great stretch to suggest they messed it up with that add on outlet. Beyond that no guess.

As to that other thread the issue was either a loose connection or a lug pin falling out causing a short. This is that thread:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ch-358337.html

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

Looking at the picture, what you've been calling a surge guard is also your ATS, and the plug they added in is seemingly directly wired into that, so I don't think it's a great stretch to suggest they messed it up with that add on outlet. Beyond that no guess.

As to that other thread the issue was either a loose connection or a lug pin falling out causing a short. This is that thread:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ch-358337.html

I think the name confusion is due to Southwire labeling, If you look further at the same picture you will notice that my unit actually says Southwire SURGE GUARD and then Automatic Transfer Switch. Southwire SURGE GUARD is the brand of the model of ATS. Looking at Southwire's site they have renamed the label so it is clearer.

https://rvpower.southwire.com/produc...ansfer-switch/


My RV is back at the dealership now, they say they think the ATS may have failed. If I get a new one exact same model the label will say...
Southwire RV POWER PROTECTION Automatic Transfer Switch

Will check out the other link

[Goodspike]

I had thought there were two separate devices, which would have meant either could have been causing an issue.

[dkoldman]

Update: This morning I got confirmation that the issue was with the ATS. A new part is on order; so the actual repair is pending. I also had them upgrade the 110vac receptacle to include a grounded casing that happens to have a better color match (dark brown) for cosmetic purposes.

[dkoldman]

Update: The new ATS was installed this morning and shore power is now restored

You can also see the new receptacle. My next step is to go into AGS Automatic mode and start playing with new features.

[Morich]

Much nicer looking job and many times a good looking job means a better job all around. The guy that takes time to make it look nice is also more prone to do things like tighten the screws inside!

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Morich

Much nicer looking job and many times a good looking job means a better job all around. The guy that takes time to make it look nice is also more prone to do things like tighten the screws inside!

The Service Manager agrees with you ...(fortunately for me). What had happened was that I had bought all of the electricals ( receptacle and casing etc.) but the the person that installed the 1st time did NOT use the material I had supplied. The situation was worsened in that during the install something must have gone wrong to kill the ATS. So versus trying to fix contactor etc. they bought a brand new Southwire Surge Guard ATS and reinstalled the receptacle all at no charge.

Versus bashing the Technician (whom I don't know) or even the Dealership, I am actually very pleased and will be giving the dealer another great Google Review. I didn't buy my RV from this Winnebago Dealer; so I am just Thankful they even work with me , because their policy as a general rule is to NOT service RVs they did not sell. They obviously can and will make exceptions; but I think they get their fill of RV owners going to social media about every little thing that may go wrong based on a one sided perspective.

[dkoldman]

Update: This morning I had the time to go through some of the new features afforded to me based on having the 12VDC Adapter connected to 120VAC Shore power source BEFORE the Southwire ATS.

1. The Onan EC-30 AutoGen would not AUTOMATICALLY start in any scenario if AC shore power was present. Note: If you go to Manual mode Generator will start and ATS takes over to supply coach from Generator

2. The Onan EC-30 AutoGen AUTOMATICALLY shut off when AC shore power was restored. Note: It conforms to the minimum runtime of 10 minutes before Generator shutdown.

3. The Onan EC-30 AutoGen started AUTOMATICALLY when AC Shore power was loss. Note: This effectively is an automatic power backup system.

The EC-30 by Cummins Onan is 5 Star in my book. For what we do in our RV, it is the most essential Mod todate. Note: this was not Factory Installed by Winnebago rather an Onan option I chose with to do with an Authorized Winnebago Dealer. Short the failure with the Southwire ATS, this would have gone flawless the 1st time. I credit my Dealer for staying on this replacing that ATS at no additional cost, and quick turn around during Covid.

Few pictures to show what the screens looked like during my testing.