No power at the dash or fuse blocks

[jefflbi]

I just can't seem to take a trip without having a problem........... 2004 Winnebago Journey 39k. I washed the RV a dew days ago. Sometime after washing I started hearing a clicking noise coming from underneath the RV. I believe it was the starter. Also my windshield wipers would intermittently cycle even though the ignition was off. This continued throughout the day. Disconnecting the engine batteries did not stop the noise. But overnight sometime the problem stopped and now I have no power whatsoever at the dash. I have 2 different fuse boxes and no power at either of them.

[Morich]

I would have to start with the idea that the batteries may now be down and want to check the voltage there first and if found okay, then begin to work my way out from the batteries.
This may also not mean dead batteries but only something small like dirty cables or blown fuses. But it is always easier/quicker to verify the basics before looking for the details.

[jefflbi]

Originally Posted by Morich

I would have to start with the idea that the batteries may now be down and want to check the voltage there first and if found okay, then begin to work my way out from the batteries.
This may also not mean dead batteries but only something small like dirty cables or blown fuses. But it is always easier/quicker to verify the basics before looking for the details.

Batteries are fully charged. That's one of the first things I checked. So it has to be between the engine batteries and the rear fuse block. Something tells me it's gonna be at the starter, relay, or whatever was making that clicking noise I was hearing.

[Morich]

If batteries are charged, next I would do some checking on whether power is getting to a solenoid that connects coach and chassis batteries together.
I think I have seen this located under a cover on the outside near the driver's side? Not checked for sure but if you know where this is, I suggest making sure both coach and chassis battery is getting to the solenoid and what it is doing.
click for best view!
This is shown here:

This solenoid(marked blue) is operated by wires LR and MG. When you operate the dash switch, it closes this solenoid/switch to connect chassis (red) and coach (Green) together.
This is the switch that tells it to operate!


If the coach wiring is good, to this point, you may hear this solenoid click when you push the dash switch. IF you can hear it, click as it moves, try holding it operated to see if then you have power to try to start the engine as it will be using power from the coach group!

This switch has three positions, one is on, center is off the the other is momentary (only on while holding it!) Turn to center/off before moving to next step so that the two batteries are separated while testing!

If not close enough or loud enough to hear, you may need to open the panel and check the chassis battery is connected to the left big lug and coach to the right!
If you only have one of the voltages showing at this point, you will need to chase back toward the battery for that one! Meanwhile pushing the switch to close this connection will let the battery getting there, work to power the other!
Make sure the coach battery disconnect switch is on so that some inside lights, etc will let you know if they suddenly get power this way.

What I am suggesting is that we can do some testing to see which battery is getting to the right places and if not, which direction to chase the problem!

Try a few things and report what works?

[jefflbi]

Originally Posted by Morich

If batteries are charged, next I would do some checking on whether power is getting to a solenoid that connects coach and chassis batteries together.
I think I have seen this located under a cover on the outside near the driver's side? Not checked for sure but if you know where this is, I suggest making sure both coach and chassis battery is getting to the solenoid and what it is doing.
click for best view!
This is shown here:
Attachment 188275
This solenoid(marked blue) is operated by wires LR and MG. When you operate the dash switch, it closes this solenoid/switch to connect chassis (red) and coach (Green) together.
This is the switch that tells it to operate!
Attachment 188276



If the coach wiring is good, to this point, you may hear this solenoid click when you push the dash switch. IF you can hear it, click as it moves, try holding it operated to see if then you have power to try to start the engine as it will be using power from the coach group!

This switch has three positions, one is on, center is off the the other is momentary (only on while holding it!) Turn to center/off before moving to next step so that the two batteries are separated while testing!

If not close enough or loud enough to hear, you may need to open the panel and check the chassis battery is connected to the left big lug and coach to the right!
If you only have one of the voltages showing at this point, you will need to chase back toward the battery for that one! Meanwhile pushing the switch to close this connection will let the battery getting there, work to power the other!
Make sure the coach battery disconnect switch is on so that some inside lights, etc will let you know if they suddenly get power this way.

What I am suggesting is that we can do some testing to see which battery is getting to the right places and if not, which direction to chase the problem!

Try a few things and report what works?

Well after 4 hours of troubleshooting over the phone with the same guy that helped me out in TN a few months back when I had to repair the circuit board inside the leveling control box, we found I most likely have a grounding issue due to the water that got God knows where. I do have 12+ volts at the blue and green areas marked in the first diagram. The coach wiring is good.

But we found that the fuse block in the rear compartment where the shore power cable is, is only getting between 8-10 volts. It's that rear fuse box that supplies power to the front fuse box. I need to trace the battery cable that runs from the rear fuse block to the front fuse block. I am going to put a small infrared heater up by the gas and brake pedals and have it blow warm air into the front compartment where the front fuse block is, in the hope that just maybe drying it out will help.

[Morich]

I do have 12+ volts at the blue and green areas marked in the first diagram. The coach wiring is good.

But we found that the fuse block in the rear compartment where the shore power cable is, is only getting between 8-10 volts. It's that rear fuse box that supplies power to the front fuse box.

There has to be a bit of confusion on this if I read what you are saying!
If the rear feeds the front and is sending 8-10 volts (bit of odd reading there? ) but the front is getting 12 volts, there has to be some confusion!

It is my thinking that the rear where the cord comes in provides 110AC to the converter. That converter then sends 12 to 14 VDC to charge the coach batteries and has very little to do with the chassis batteries until the mode solenoid operates to connect them together.

The engine alternator is what we normally find charges the chassis battery and run the chassis things like starting.

[jefflbi]

Originally Posted by Morich

Quote:
I do have 12+ volts at the blue and green areas marked in the first diagram. The coach wiring is good.

But we found that the fuse block in the rear compartment where the shore power cable is, is only getting between 8-10 volts. It's that rear fuse box that supplies power to the front fuse box.

There has to be a bit of confusion on this if I read what you are saying!
If the rear feeds the front and is sending 8-10 volts (bit of odd reading there? ) but the front is getting 12 volts, there has to be some confusion!

According to the tech I was talking to on the phone, the blue and green areas are being powered by the coach batteries, which is why I'm getting 12.5 volts there. The engine batteries are feeding the rear fuse block. I traced the positive wire from the engine batteries. It goes to the starter, where I have 13.13 volts. From the starter a cable runs to the rear fuse block, where I was only getting 8-10 volts. Now the guy on the phone wants to make sure I'm testing with a good ground, so he had me run out and buy 50ft of 14 gauge wire and some alligator clips. He wants me to make a wire that is long enough to reach from anywhere on the RV to the negative battery terminal. I will do that tomorrow morning and verify voltage at the rear fuse block

I did try starting the engine in Mom mode, holding down the switch like you described. Nothing. I did hear a click from a relay, but it wasn't the type of click like when there's a lot of power going to the system

[Morich]

Okay. I see some of the confusion as I had not questioned the check of the blue section as it has nothing to do with the chassis battery itself but is only marking the solenoid and wires controlling the solenoid. Since the question seemed to be about the chassis battery, I assumed it was just a type when you said you checked the blue as the red and green are the two points to check the two battery groups.

I'll back out of this one as what the other person is suggesting doesn't match with what I would expect at all.
First big difference in our thinking is that I find the frame is used as ground, so running wire to any point a long distance away is not something I would ever feel needed.
The negative posts on the battery ARE ground and they have battery cables connected directly to the frame!
I'll let them continue as I see nothing I can relate to in their testing!

[jefflbi]

Rich,
I've already fixed 2 electrical issues on my RV where the problem was a ground that was no longer good due to rust. Just because it's the frame doesn't mean it's a good ground.

[Morich]

It may not be a good one but it is also the only one we have when we are driving down the road, so it has to do if we don't want to drag a chain!

But that is as far as I go as the frame is where the ground buss bar is located.

[jefflbi]

Well I believe I have found my problem. A lot of water from washing the RV got into the plastic tubing covering the main harness that supplies power to the dash. I let the water drain out then removed the plastic tubing and dried out the wires as best I could. The one thing I have not been able to do yet is disconnect the harness from the connector on the floor under the dash. I've attached a few pics for reference.

[jefflbi]

Just another update. I was able to disconnect the harness for the dash on the inside of the RV under the dash. A tight spot but better than lying on the ground. First thing to know is that the connector at first sight looks like there are tabs on the side that are holding it together. I tried spreading them apart and it wouldn't budge. There is a small tube in the center on both sides of the connector. I saw nothing on the inside from the bottom, but there is a 7mm screw in the top tube. This securely holds the connector together. There are also 2 screws on either side that hold the connector mounting plate to the floor. I removed those screws and was able to pull the wiring into the RV. There is plenty of slack, thank God!!

When I finally got the connector apart I saw some brown around one pin (see attached pics) that cleaned up easily. The pin was not burnt. The opposite side of the connector looked good but I did spray some contact cleaner on a few pins just in case. I now have a small heater blowing on the exposed connectors.

Before putting everything back together I am going to disconnect the negative battery cable to prevent any surge at the connector.

[Morich]

I think you are missing a major point on your chase. You said there is no power at either of the fuse/breaker boxes!
The basic idea in wiring is that large wires carry the whole load for lots of small wires.
So if you are not getting power at the breaker panels, etc. what is the point of looking at the tiny wires that come out of the breaker panels?
If there is no power going into the breakers, there will be none coming out, so I drop back to checking if or why none is going IN!

Click this snip to see better!


If you are chasing a power problem for the chassis wiring, I would go first to the batteries to make sure they are good.
This drawing shows the cable from the chassis batteries (point 1) to the solenoid(point 2) and then the wire labeled "chassis breaker feed" takes it to point 3 at the breakers.

Where you are currently looking at the wiring is way past that point out in the weeds somewhere!

[jefflbi]

Morich, you are right, that I am looking in the wrong place for the loss of voltage. But what I did with the harness needed to be done and it was the cause of my issue. I put the harness back together and although I don't have the voltage I need, I do have a stable system now. I realized I was reading multimeter wrong. They make them too simple now adays. Mine is set to auto and at the fuse blocks was reading in mVolts. When I went directly to my battery, it read in Volts. I hooked up some jumper cables from my SUV to the front fuse block and I had power and the dash came alive when I turned the key. I now know there is a loss of voltage between the batteries and the rear fuse block, and I'm thinking it's a fuseable link by the starter. Do you know of one??

[jefflbi]

Another update. I got a tip from a diesel mechanic to try doing a hard reset of the electrical system by disconnecting the battery cables and touching them together for a few minutes. I did that and now I have power at the dash when I turn the key. The starter will not crank. I'm getting closer........

[jefflbi]

I just noticed that the dash is displaying the messages, Engine Comm Fail, Trans Comm Fail. I know they need to talk to each other........

[jefflbi]

FIXED!!!

The messages on the dash were from me not having the wiring harness screwed together. I did that and turned the key and started the engine and everything was like it was before I washed the RV!!!