Onan EC-30 AGS Solution for Lithium Batteries Upgrade

[dkoldman]

I am looking to upgrade to Lithium batteries on my next time to buy batteries to replace my AGMs.

I use my AGS a lot especially when driving as it powers the genny to turns the ACs on/off to maintain temperature.

But we also have Auto Start @Low Voltage set at 12.5vdc. That is the highest allowable in our setup of EC-30. Does Onan have a solution where it could be set at 13.2?

[dkoldman]

I spoke with Onan today. They do not have a Lithium solution today. They are working on new product that will allow the Auto Start voltage to be set as high as 14vdc, I would want 13vdc or anything above the 12.5vdc limit I have now. It is odd that the low point setting for AGS to start is 10.5vdc Who would want to wait that long to start recharging batteries. The genny likely couldn't start at that voltage anyway.

So with that information, I spoke with Power Gear who says if genny restarts at 12.5vdc for Lithium batteries that would mean I would be down to 14% SOC, so I guess it is not the end of the world, but the automatic starts and usage of my genny would go down because at current I have it restarting at 12.5vdc purposely to make it run as much as possible via the automation.

With that said and while I have my Onan hat on, I may drop my current 12.5vdc to 12.2vdc for my existing AGMs as they are now aging.

[creativepart]

My opinion... and it's a pretty uneducated one so feel free to ignore... is that the EC30 is a poor AGS solution.

I've used it twice and both times it sort of let me down. One time it didn't start the gen when I expected it to, and another time it started the gen unexpectedly.

I much prefer starting and stopping the generator manually. Maybe I'm not smart enough, but the EC30 is not reliable or better stated I'm not capable of figuring it out.

I leave the A/Cs ON on the thermostat after unplugging shore power in the morning on travel days. Then when driving if I see it's above 85 outside I reach over and start the gen with the dash switch. Once the A/Cs have power they come on as well.

My 2017 motorhome has an older version of EC30 software and the only way to update the software is to remove the controller and send it to Onan and wait for them to update it and send it back. No thanks.

I do realize we all operate differently. Obviously, you enjoy using the AGS built into the EC30. Not me, in case you couldn't tell.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by creativepart

My opinion... and it's a pretty uneducated one so feel free to ignore... is that the EC30 is a poor AGS solution.

I've used it twice and both times it sort of let me down. One time it didn't start the gen when I expected it to, and another time it started the gen unexpectedly.

I much prefer starting and stopping the generator manually. Maybe I'm not smart enough, but the EC30 is not reliable or better stated I'm not capable of figuring it out.

I leave the A/Cs ON on the thermostat after unplugging shore power in the morning on travel days. Then when driving if I see it's above 85 outside I reach over and start the gen with the dash switch. Once the A/Cs have power they come on as well.

My 2017 motorhome has an older version of EC30 software and the only way to update the software is to remove the controller and send it to Onan and wait for them to update it and send it back. No thanks.

I do realize we all operate differently. Obviously, you enjoy using the AGS built into the EC30. Not me, in case you couldn't tell.

I find your view amazing but it is consistent with what I tend to hear about Onan generators in general not related to AGS or EC-30. I have no 1st hand knowledge of the EC-AGS+ I looked at and know that it is not for me, I had that conversation with Onan today. If I could add bluetooth to my existing system, I would be all for it. This takes me to your angle.

I think the EC-30 is the greatest thing on my RV. Maybe because it was my 1st mod, I am bias. It works flawless and I have become very efficient using it. It activated/on on 90% of all our trip.

Other AGS system may work and be better but I have no need to try anything else just yet.

The setup is the key, tad confusing but not to hard. Once done, there is no need to change it.

Key things I use it for.

1. Start genny if temperature rise to the setpoint on the Thermostat. The Thermostat calls the EC-30 much like it calls for compressor to kick on. Genny simply autostart so ACs have power. We have 2 ACs but we use the hallway Thermostat as main

2. As a rule when we bought the AGMs, we wanted to keep the voltage at 12.5vdc or higher, that is above 50% SOC for AGM, but that was what I wanted to force more runtime so genny could run more.

3. Quiet Time, I have ours programmed from 8:00PM to 8:00AM, At campsites I always use Quiet time mode, unless we have SP

4. SP Shutdown - This is more like a toy than a need But it is cool. Say we are traveling approaching our campsite. It is very hot outside and genny is running so both ACs are on. When I get to the spot, I level; of course engine and genny still running, I go outside making sure all is good with Jacks, the wife is inside doing things, I then go back inside and let out the slide. At that point IF we have SP, I go to connect SP. As soon as I plug in the SP the genny shutdowns but the ACs stay on. My wife will then turn off the engine to stop the jacks from beeping, the genny would have put itself into Manual mode.

5. Because I don't have any fancy shunts, solar controller etc, i get my chassis & house voltages from the EC-30, easy to see at night and clock that discreetly lights up to the touch in the middle of the night.

The things I don't like

1. I can not set Auto Start above 12.5vdc
2. I think the Ignition safety is overkill, if you are in AGS Auto mode and stop to get gas or to eat, when you turn the engine off it kills everything abruptly

FWIW, I did send mine back in a few years ago for firmware upgrade. They checked today and didn't say anything so I assume it is good. I know they are working on the new release of AGS+ I would get that firmware current while I could. They had a really fast turnaround if I recall.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I am looking to upgrade to Lithium batteries on my next time to buy batteries to replace my AGMs.

I use my AGS a lot especially when driving as it powers the genny to turns the ACs on/off to maintain temperature.

But we also have Auto Start @Low Voltage set at 12.5vdc. That is the highest allowable in our setup of EC-30. Does Onan have a solution where it could be set at 13.2?

Why do you have the low voltage set so high? With Lithiums you can set it to a much lower voltage. AGM's are safe down to 11.7. Your generator will be making frequent start cycles set that high.
Here is a link to my EC-30 manual: https://1drv.ms/b/s!Ag85BvU7k3WvhK5C...gMEfw?e=V3FxSu
I hope this gives you a better understanding of how this thing works.
Rick

[powercat_ras]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

I am looking to upgrade to Lithium batteries on my next time to buy batteries to replace my AGMs.

I use my AGS a lot especially when driving as it powers the genny to turns the ACs on/off to maintain temperature.

But we also have Auto Start @Low Voltage set at 12.5vdc. That is the highest allowable in our setup of EC-30. Does Onan have a solution where it could be set at 13.2?

From the Energy Command 30 manual:
Wire # 8 is House Battery Sense

You can fabricate a simple circuit to put a reduced voltage that directly follows there Lithium House Battery Voltage on the Wire # 8 input. A silicon diode has a constant voltage drop of 0.7 volts when it has current flowing thru it. 20/1000 amps (20 miliamps) of current will be plenty to accomplish this. This circuit will have a constant 0.02 Amp battery drain AKA will use 1/2 amp-hour of DC power per day.

Here is the circuit, use at least 16 gauge wire :

Lithium Battery Positive Terminal
|
|
1 amp fuse
|
|
Silicon Diode rated >= 1 Amp, Band marking side connected down in this diagram
|
+----- AGS Wire #8 Battery Sense Input
|..... Voltage here will be 0.7 volts less than
|..... the LiFe04 battery bank voltage
|
1 Watt Resistor, 620 ohm
|..... the resistor will dissapate 1/4 watt as heat
|..... you could use 4 2,400 ohm 1/4 watt resistors wired in parallel
|..... If you have trouble finding 620 ohm 1 watt resistor for fair price
|
Good negative connection point

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

Why do you have the low voltage set so high? With Lithiums you can set it to a much lower voltage. AGM's are safe down to 11.7. Your generator will be making frequent start cycles set that high.
Here is a link to my EC-30 manual: https://1drv.ms/b/s!Ag85BvU7k3WvhK5C...gMEfw?e=V3FxSu
I hope this gives you a better understanding of how this thing works.
Rick

I have it set that way by design?

I have AGM batteries. VMax Tanks (125ah each) to be exact. When I bought the vMax tanks, Their Tech Support states that it is best to not go below 50% SOC to pursuit to keeping batteries charged. That is about 12.4vdc for AGM. I set at 12.5vdc to be North of 50%SOC

I have been running that way for almost 4 years and I do not have frequent starts. In fact, I would like my genny to start sooner. If I could move to 12.6vdc, I would but the EC-30 does not allow.... thus this thread.

Onan is working so that the new AGMs allow you to set at a higher Low Voltage Start.

Note: For clarity, for me it is not about how low I could take the AGMs, but the balance to keep them over 50% SOC and working my genny as much as possible. Today, 90% of the time my AGS starts is due to Low Temp on Thermostat. When it does start up due to low voltage of 12.5vdc, it is always human error that we may have missed.

Now with all that said, and as I have said earlier, as the batteries age and approach the end of their useful life, I may drop down to 12.2

UPDATE

The manual you provided is the same manual I have. I think you may have misinterpreted my objective? I have Wire #8 connected and I can see and track actual voltage from House batteries. I can also see voltage from Chassis batteries. The Issue is that the firmware does not allow you to set the Low Start to a value greater than 12.5vdc. Maybe I am still missing something, but my quest is to be able to use my existing EC-30 and set Low Voltage Start to be 12.9vdc or maybe even 13.0vdc

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

From the Energy Command 30 manual:
Wire # 8 is House Battery Sense

You can fabricate a simple circuit to put a reduced voltage that directly follows there Lithium House Battery Voltage on the Wire # 8 input. A silicon diode has a constant voltage drop of 0.7 volts when it has current flowing thru it. 20/1000 amps (20 miliamps) of current will be plenty to accomplish this. This circuit will have a constant 0.02 Amp battery drain AKA will use 1/2 amp-hour of DC power per day.

Here is the circuit, use at least 16 gauge wire :

Lithium Battery Positive Terminal
|
|
1 amp fuse
|
|
Silicon Diode rated >= 1 Amp, Band marking side connected down in this diagram
|
+----- AGS Wire #8 Battery Sense Input
|..... Voltage here will be 0.7 volts less than
|..... the LiFe04 battery bank voltage
|
1 Watt Resistor, 620 ohm
|..... the resistor will dissapate 1/4 watt as heat
|..... you could use 4 2,400 ohm 1/4 watt resistors wired in parallel
|..... If you have trouble finding 620 ohm 1 watt resistor for fair price
|
Good negative connection point

I don't think I can fabricate this myself? Also if I follow, I am not seeking a reduced voltage on House Battery but the ability to raise the voltage. I can set the voltage as low as 10.5vdc.

Also, be advised that I do NOT have Lithium batteries today. I was seeking to learn if Onan had a solution to allow a setting above 12.5vdc for Low Voltage. Per Onan today the answer is No, but they are working on a solution with new AGS+ solution.

My plan right now is to accept that the 12.5vdc will be my max setting for Lithium; so it simply means that the batteries will be down to 14% SOC. Not ideal for me, but Lithiums can handle being at 14% SOC better than AGM being at a very low SOC (less than 50%)

[tderonne]

50% S.O.C. is only a valid measurement when you look at the resting voltage. Some places say this is after as much as 24 hours of the batteries doing nothing. My instantaneous battery voltage goes below 12.0 quite easily with a few loads on. They'll come back up close to 12.6 if I turn everything off and wait a while. I have to set my automatic start voltage pretty low to not get false starts due to temporary loads.

(Lithium batteries don't drop nearly as much under load though. I think the diode setup ought to work good?)

[powercat_ras]

Updated ...

In my opinion you want AGS to start at a Lithium battery bank voltage of 12.9 - 13.1 range as you see fit.

The voltage on lead 8 will be 0.7 volts less than the Lithium battery voltage if you use the diode circuit I described earlier in this thread.

So you would set the AGS to auto start at AGS lead 8 coach battery sense voltage of 12.2 - 12.4 to accomplish this, if you used the diode circuit to offset the lead 8 voltage from the battery voltage by 0.7 volts.

Lithium Iron Battery Voltage vs. Capacity when batteries are not under heavy load and are not being charged:

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by tderonne

50% S.O.C. is only a valid measurement when you look at the resting voltage. Some places say this is after as much as 24 hours of the batteries doing nothing. My instantaneous battery voltage goes below 12.0 quite easily with a few loads on. They'll come back up close to 12.6 if I turn everything off and wait a while. I have to set my automatic start voltage pretty low to not get false starts due to temporary loads.

(Lithium batteries don't drop nearly as much under load though. I think the diode setup ought to work good?)

I think you can check with Onan, but the EC-30 is smart enough to calculate voltage and factor out instantaneous voltage drops. They have some algorithm to calculate the same for when it stops. Of course you can change if you like by telling the algorithm how long you want a certain voltage drop reading to sustain.

Regardless, I think you are missing the point. I don't get any false start to low voltage levels. In fact, I question posed was for the purpose on the other side. Do a brain dump to follow me. My AGS is set for 12.5vdc to Auto Start because #1 12.4vdc is 50% SOC by Manufacturer. Since the Onan EC-30 max auto restart setpoint is 12.5vdc, I have done for 4 years and it works great, there is no problem to solve there.

So today, I created the thread at the time to see if anyone had an ONAN SOLUTION to set the Auto Start value higher than 12.5vdc. The answer thus far is no. I have since spoken with Onan who confirms but they also state their newest product will allow to to set as high as 13.0.

No way I could set at 13.0vdc on my AGM batteries today, but tomorrow if I buy Lithiums I might. It is User defined setting that today is 10.5 - 12.5 per Onan tomorrow it may be 10.5 - 13.0

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

Updated ...

In my opinion you want AGS to start at a Lithium battery bank voltage of 12.9 - 13.1 range as you see fit.

Yes, and it is for this reason and ONLY this reason I created the Thread. The EC-30 AGS has a MAXIMUM USER DEFINED Low Voltage restart setting of 12.5vdc. If Onan had a solution for their EC-30 to increase to 13.0vdc was my question. Per Onan, the answer is No

The voltage on lead 8 will be 0.7 volts less than the Lithium battery voltage if you use the diode circuit I described earlier in this thread.

So you would set the AGS to auto start at AGS lead 8 coach battery sense voltage of 12.2 - 12.4 to accomplish this, if you used the diode circuit to offset the lead 8 voltage from the battery voltage by 0.7 volts.

I have no idea of what you are trying to tell me here? My AGS is already hooked up to read House and Chassis Batteries. My EC-30 was installed by Authorized Onan Dealer when coach was brand new and I use that AGS exclusively. It has worked great for both my OEM FLA and AGMs. My genny kicks on at 12.5vdc, it is rare but when it does it is pleasant surprise. Usually it is because I may have thought I was on SP but was not. Never a big deal, but as your charts shows for AGMs batteries I never dip below the 50%

Lithium Iron Battery Voltage vs. Capacity when batteries are not under heavy load and are not being charged:



The Lithium graph shows best of the problem I was looking to proatively solve. IF I BUY LITHIUMs ( I don't own Lithiums today) My current Onan EC-30 AGS max setting is 12.5vdc so that means in scenario above and I thought I was on SP, I would have those expensive Lithium batteries down to 14% SOC before I knew about it. So if you could tell me how my EC-30 AGS can be set to Auto Start based on Low setting of 13.0vdc that is what I am missing to understand.

Randy,

My apologies with my sincerest respect, but I am not sure you are following me, or I might just be a tad slow. I will use your post which I love the graphs to try the make the point.

[powercat_ras]

Dkoldman, I'm a retired electrical engineer, and long time electonics hobbyist for over 50 years. I tried to explain in my prior posts why when you send battery current thru a silicon diode then thru a resistor so that there is current flow the junction point where the diode and resistor meet will always be 0.7 volts less than the battery voltage. So the actual battery voltage the generator will start at will be 0.7 volts higher than what you program the AGS for.

If you still don't believe me then I guess you'll have to go to Kansas State and get an Electrical Engineering degree like I did back in 1980, and also work in electronics all your life.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

Dkoldman, I'm a retired electrical engineer, and long time electonics hobbyist for over 50 years. I tried to explain in my prior posts why when you send battery current thru a silicon diode then thru a resistor so that there is current flow the junction point where the diode and resistor meet will always be 0.7 volts less than the battery voltage. So the actual battery voltage the generator will start at will be 0.7 volts higher than what you program the AGS for.

If you still don't believe me then I guess you'll have to go to Kansas State and get an Electrical Engineering degree like I did back in 1980, and also work in electronics all your life.

I don't think it was a question of believing you, but understanding what you are saying relative to my thread. Sounds like you are saying I can make some modifications to the wiring so that the 12.5 setting will actually be 13.2 physically? If so; I don't wish to alter or modify the electronics, I paid good money to have it installed OEM, I was just surprised that after 4 years Onan does not have a retrofit solution meaning like a firmware upgrade. Some human decided 15 years ago to make the range 10.5 - 12.5, seems like they could easily make that software limit as high as 13.0. Actually they can, and they say they will with the next AGS+ release that I don't have.

btw, I don't need to go to Kansas State, I got my Industrial Engineering degree from the University of Arkansas. With that said I appreciate you offering a suggestion on how I can make my own solution, but I think part of the confusion is that the diode parts and wiring fabrication was not what I was seeking to learn.

I love my EC-30 it is one of my favorite toys with the RV. However, I am coming to terms that if I ever buy Lithium batteries; whereas I have been use to AGS Restarts at 50% SOC, that will decrease to 14% SOC for lithium. Not the end of the world, but it is in yellow area as your charts show why I created the thread. As an efficiency guy, I will find other creative ways to work around given that I now know Onan does NOT have a simple fix.

Also, just so you know. All of the mods I am making today (in upcoming months) is toward the end goal of eventually switching to Lithium when I retire my existing AGMs. So my new converter has easy to change profile. Soon I will have a new switch to deactivate my alternator from charging through the trombetta when engine is running, and on deck I will have new DC to DC that can be set for AGMs or Lithium.

[powercat_ras]

You would not be modifying the AGS in any way shape or form. You would just be moving the coach battery sense wire from direct connection to battery positive to the little circuit that would go between the positive and negative coach battery terminals, that would lower the voltage seen by the AGS sense wire by 0.7 volts.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

You would not be modifying the AGS in any way shape or form. You would just be moving the coach battery sense wire from direct connection to battery positive to the little circuit that would go between the positive and negative coach battery terminals, that would lower the voltage seen by the AGS sense wire by 0.7 volts.

I think I follow better now. If you can be patient with me to grasp this concept because I am not an Electrical Engineer but I am not afraid to try things that are known to be safe. You Tube videos have made me an expert on many things, but let me try to grasp what think I understand and I love to be corrected because I love to learn what I don't know.

Let me start with the knowns.
I know there is an existing wire tied to the house battery.

Then the unknowns
What you view is "Little Circuit" is complex to me. But if I assume I had that little circuit, I assume a small circuit board that some how will be connected to both house positive and house negative ( I have non-isolated configuration), and in turn my existing wire will connect to the circuit board

What this means
Is that now when / if I have Lithium batteries, if actual the Lithium batteries Rest state was 13.2vdc, the EC-30 would only see 12.5vdc? If so, I could adjust my EC-30 settting to Auto Start for Low at 12.3vdc, then if my Lithium batteries rest state was actually 13.0vdc EC-30 AGS would start the genny?

If I follow...
I would have interest in this because I could / would only use if I had Lithium batteries. Not sure how it would affect the AGM readings, but that would be irrelevant because AGMs in my coach are going away. 3 years ago I would have wanted to set the the EC-30 AGS to 12.6vdc for AGM, but 12.5vdc was good balance for us.

Since you are an Electrical Engineer, you may detect my focus is on the producibility. I have seen many electronic designs that we could not mass manufacture, while we never question the integrity of the design itself, Design Reviews help resolve those obstacles. I can't tell you how many perfectly design circuit boards lacked something as simple as tooling holes where ay have had 1,000 of circuit board we could not manufacturer without some special design block to mount or auto insertion of surface mount assembly.

[powercat_ras]

You would set the EC-30 to a voltage 0.7 volts less than the Lithium voltage you want to start the generator at. For example if you wanted 12.9 ( 20% remaining ) you would set the EC-30 to 12.2

You would NOT install this circuit while you have flooded Lead Acid or AGM Lead Acid batteries. No need to.

If you want to PM me I would be willing to build this circuit, encapsulate it in silicone, and mail it to you for a price we would agree on. It would be a silicone object with a yellow wire with a 1 amp in-line fuse ending with a ring terminal to connect to B+ , a white wire with a ring terminal to connect to B-, and a wire of another color to connect to the AGS battery sense lead. As an electronics hobbyist I have all the parts and tools to quickly make it.

That said, it sounds like you are just doing research and have no time frame in mind for converting to LiFe04 batteries.

You should be aware there are other things about converting to LiFe04 that you will have to deal with, this is because LiFe04 requires at least 14.4 volts to charge all the way to 100% and this is totally different than the charging requirements of Lead Acid batteries.

1. The OEM Converter-Charger (CC) on the Sunstar will not be able to fully charge the LiFe04 battery type. It will only charge to about 60% or so, because it is a 3 stage charger will fall out of bulk charge stage and no longer try to output 14.4 volts. You will have to replace the CC to fully charge LiFe04 with generator power.

2. If you are installing more than 100 AH of LiFe04 you may want to rework the way the Sunstar charges from the alternator when the engine is running. LiFe04 can draw up to 1 amp per Amp-hour of capacity when they are highly discharged and this can put a lot of stress on the Ford F53 alternator and shorten its life or even cause it to fail. The solution is to use a DC-DC charger to limit the current the alternator can output to charge the LiFe04 batteries. Introducing the DC-DC charger requires the BMS and associated coach-chassis battery contactor be set up so that they don't connect the coach and chassis batteries together when the F53 engine is running.

3. Without the DC-DC charger, charging with F53 engine / alternator will not bring the LiFe04 to 100% as the alternator output electronics falls back from 14.4 volt output bulk charge stage once it senses the chassis battery has a high state of charge, so it doesn't make overcharge gas and lose water out of the chassis battery. The DC-DC charger takes an alternator output that is in the mid 13 volt range (typical after alternator sees a high state of charge chassis battery) and steps it up to 14.4 so the LiFe04 sees the required charge voltage to completely charge.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

You would set the EC-30 to a voltage 0.7 volts less than the Lithium voltage you want to start the generator at. For example if you wanted 12.9 ( 20% remaining ) you would set the EC-30 to 12.2

This is very clear, I would have to get use to knowing the house batteries are always reading .7 volts less. This may confuse the wife because the Engine/Chassis battery will still be displaying correct voltage. If I get my new Inverter's display to work properly, this would not be too much of a concern because it would have a nicer more colorful display on the same wall. Problem though inverter must be ON to see. But main point here is I understand how it may work.

You would NOT install this circuit while you have flooded Lead Acid or AGM Lead Acid batteries. No need to.

If I were to go this route, I would splice my existing House #8 wiring at House batteries with insulated male/female connectors so I could install (Not use, but verify functionality) BEFORE actually buying Lithium batteries. I am simply making my coach Lithium ready at this stage.

If you want to PM me I would be willing to build this circuit, encapsulate it in silicone, and mail it to you for a price we would agree on. It would be a silicone object with a yellow wire with a 1 amp in-line fuse ending with a ring terminal to connect to B+ , a white wire with a ring terminal to connect to B-, and a wire of another color to connect to the AGS battery sense lead. As an electronics hobbyist I have all the parts and tools to quickly make it.

That said, it sounds like you are just doing research and have no time frame in mind for converting to LiFe04 batteries.

I am actively making my coach Lithium ready right now. I have to work around my job and other activities, but yes I research everything before I take action. I view this as a Non Onan EC-30 solution. In my book the current Onan EC-30 Solution has a firmware block so you have no choice to AutoStart for Lithium batteries until you have hit 14%. I want Onan to provide new firmware, but I realize it is slim to no chance. But I will PM if we decide to go this direction. I suspect cost may play a role.

You should be aware there are other things about converting to LiFe04 that you will have to deal with, this is because LiFe04 requires at least 14.4 volts to charge all the way to 100% and this is totally different than the charging requirements of Lead Acid batteries.

1. The OEM Converter-Charger (CC) on the Sunstar will not be able to fully charge the LiFe04 battery type. It will only charge to about 60% or so, because it is a 3 stage charger will fall out of bulk charge stage and no longer try to output 14.4 volts. You will have to replace the CC to fully charge LiFe04 with generator power.

I did this mod two weeks ago. I have new Progressive Dynamics PD9345V, it works great. I have set on AGM Profile. I really love the Pendant / Remote to see when ON and what stage of charging. I am already seeing benefits on how it is charging my existing AGM batteries over OEM. As a bonus, I sold my old PD9245 on ebay. Whether I go to Lithium batteries or not, I have already won here.

2. If you are installing more than 100 AH of LiFe04 you may want to rework the way the Sunstar charges from the alternator when the engine is running. LiFe04 can draw up to 1 amp per Amp-hour of capacity when they are highly discharged and this can put a lot of stress on the Ford F53 alternator and shorten its life or even cause it to fail. The solution is to use a DC-DC charger to limit the current the alternator can output to charge the LiFe04 batteries. Introducing the DC-DC charger requires the BMS and associated coach-chassis battery contactor be set up so that they don't connect the coach and chassis batteries together when the F53 engine is running.

Being an Electrical Engineer you will either like me, or scold me for how I did this. See below picture. Remember for me the fun is like a project where I can maximize materials, cost and labor. The switch you see below is to effectively allow me to Disable the impact of Ignition Switch to my Trombetta. Right now it is in Up position which means everything is normal to OEM wiring. But if I go to Lithium (at least 200ah) I will press it down to Disable charging from alternator direct through Trombetta.

3. Without the DC-DC charger, charging with F53 engine / alternator will not bring the LiFe04 to 100% as the alternator output electronics falls back from 14.4 volt output bulk charge stage once it senses the chassis battery has a high state of charge, so it doesn't make overcharge gas and lose water out of the chassis battery. The DC-DC charger takes an alternator output that is in the mid 13 volt range (typical after alternator sees a high state of charge chassis battery) and steps it up to 14.4 so the LiFe04 sees the required charge voltage to completely charge.

I originally ordered a Renogy 40amp DC to DC charger favoring it over the Victron Energy Orion TR 12/12/30, but before I received the Renogy, I learned about the new Victron Energy Orion XS 50amp (non isolated). The small size, power efficiency I think like 99% has greatly diminished heat over their 30amp model, add that the Orion superior app, and the fact that it can auto sense to turn itself ON/OFF to eliminate wiring to ignition. I was able to sell the Renogy a few days after I received it, I never even opened it up. I then found a direct Victron Energy Dealer (not an online presence) and purchased a brand new one. I was willing to wait while they order as I am in no hurry. I should have in a few weeks. The money savings makes it worthwhile, besides I am still reading the manual and trying to learn when / where I may physically install it. I have already bought 25' each RED & Black 4AWG wiring and lugs should I need. Note, I do not have a tool to clamp lugs on 4AWG; so I will have to deal with that later. I do have a heat gun to apply the shrink wrap that will be needed.

Again, thanks for your help. My goal is to make my coach fully Lithium ready while still running on my 3 1/2 year old V Max Tanks AGMs, then one day when I find a deal too good to refuse, or if my AGMs crap out, I can calmly install Lithium batteries, flip a switch (Trombetta), change profiles (Orion XS, PD9345V), and maybe even change the House #8 connector plug and in 5 minutes I have Lithiums running in my coach.

[wahoonc]

A bit off topic...
How are the V Max Tanks AGM holding up? They were recommended to be by an acquaintance that services remote phone switch sheds. He said they have some pushing the 8 year old mark and still running 85% capacity.

I will get getting 6 of the SLR 125.

Aaron

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

A bit off topic...
How are the V Max Tanks AGM holding up? They were recommended to be by an acquaintance that services remote phone switch sheds. He said they have some pushing the 8 year old mark and still running 85% capacity.

I will get getting 6 of the SLR 125.

Aaron

1. I don't know how to calculate the current capacity of my 2 SLR 125s
2. I have been a vMax Tank fanatic for about 3 1/2 years now.
3. My vMax Tanks have never been below 12.5vdc
4. When new I could go two days before the AGS would start unless I had Quiet Time set and the genny would run about 2 hours to top off every evening around 6:00 PM
5. But of late they certainly don't have the punch they use too. I have spoken with vMax Tank about it and they say they say they are still good and it is normal.
6. This thread https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ed-368604.html is because I believe 4 years is probably the best I will get, or the most I could possibly bear to live with. Having seen 2 Lithiums for $320 got me to thinking. 2 New SLR 125s will cost $500.
7. 2 100ah Lithiums will give me about 172 ah Capacity (14% SOC using my EC-30 AGS set to restart at 12.5vdc., whereas my SLR had at peak 125ahs capacity. It use to be set at 12.5vdc, but I am actually getting ready to change / drop to 12.3vdc to get a little more life out of them while they age
8. As you can see while a former lover of vMax tanks, I am working via this thread to eventually replace them. I don't know which will come first, the vMax tanks get so bad that I have to buy something, or if I just find a great deal on good quality set of Lithiums.

I am just a DC to DC install away from being Lithium ready. I have on order a Victron Energy Orion XS 50amp.

The Lithium vs AGM argument has never been an argument for me, Lithium is clearly the best choice but I chose AGMs over lithium about 3 1/2 years ago because back ten it was at least a $4,000 conversion. For me Money is a Hobby just like my RV is a hobby.

I am estimating my conversion to cost $500. When I do buy new batteries it will be at, or lower than the same cost to replace my AGMs; but it will NOT be AGMs. I am gonna save 100 pounds alone. When you have a 6,000lb toad every pound counts.

My only beef in the process is that Onan has not made an update to EC-30 to better support Lithium