Onan Starting Issues

[peter griffin]

lazy dog this has turned out to be a great post!
please let us know what happens with the generator...

[Marty & Yani]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gunny:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Marty & Yani:
Onan has a low pressurs senser and a low oil senser, if the MH is not level and the gen set is low on oil this could be a problem. As for foam the oil pick up is in the bottom and would not pick up foam, also syn oil does not foam if mixed with dyno oil they are compatable with each other. As for oil weight 15-40 is best, but 0-30 would work also.
Marty </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
0-30 oil? In what temperature range? Be pretty light if the temperture gets above freezing.
The original poster did not post the generator model/spec/serial number so how do you know it has a low level and pressure sensor?
Oil can foam to the point of it all being foam. At that point it doen't make any difference where the pick up tube is, all you then get is foam.

By the way....Amsoil is NOT API certified and should you have a lubrication issue, you may be disappointed when it comes time for warranty to step up to the plate. Some manufacturers will do anything to deny a warranty claim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No comment!

[LazyDog]

Well, what can I say? At this point I have the confidence to declare the issue SOLVED!!!!

I changed the oil yesterday and as recommended went to dino 15w-40. Cranked it over and away she ran. Those following the post will recall that I had been this far before so I resisted the temptation to run to the forum. However, this morning I tried it again and she started on the first rollover! I'll leave it a couple of weeks and try it as part of my regular winter routine but at this point I'm smiling!
Thanks in particular to Zertrider, Peter Griffen, Dcudmore and Marty, collectivly it seems you were right on the money! I'm assuming the Pressure Switch was the key and the thicker oil solved the issue. Thanks to all who took the time to read and respond!
Footnote - The Remote Switch Pilot Light
Seems my memory is not to be trusted these days! I fact, the light does not 'glow' as long as the toggle is pushed to the start position. It only kicks in when the toggle is released and the generator making power!

Let's consider the problem addressed! I'll be back with hat in hand if there should be more to tell!

Thanks again to all!

[zertrider]

I had a pretty good idea that was the problem. Couple times a year we get one in where the owner changed the oil and put in 10w30 runs into the same problem. Change it to 15w40 or 30w and the problem is solved.
Your welcome.

P.S the poster DID state in the first post that he has an Onan Emerald 6500.

[LazyDog]

OK, so confessions first: My couple of weeks turned into darn near two months.
Finally got the chance to get back to the Rig last weekend. Hopped aboard and checked to ensure all was well and to exercise the genny. Hit the switch and .......... back to the same issue. Generator engine runs as long as I keep the start switch toggled into the start position, as soon as I let it go it stops. In my opinion the engine runs fine but as posted it seems that there is a cut out (pressure switch) at play.
I also noted that the system never 'switches over', suggesting to me that the generator doesn't detect sufficient RPM/voltage to make the transfer?

Zertrider - I should also note that last weekend we were in a bit of a deep freeze - is it possible that with the heavier oil (15W-40), combined with the cold, the pickup wasn't able to circulate the oil well enough to build pressure?

Any other thoughts?

[depchief]

I do not think your issue is oil related. How many quarts of oil did you put in the generator? The operators book will tell you the quantity and I know you have followed the book. I think you have a sensor issue that is intermittent. Also have you checked to isolate the fuel filter.

Onan has told me in the past that synthetic oil is OK to use and that you should use the viscosity for your area as spelled out. This you have done so I would look to the sensor

[gunny]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LazyDog:
OK, so confessions first: My couple of weeks turned into darn near two months.
Finally got the chance to get back to the Rig last weekend. Hopped aboard and checked to ensure all was well and to exercise the genny. Hit the switch and .......... back to the same issue. Generator engine runs as long as I keep the start switch toggled into the start position, as soon as I let it go it stops. In my opinion the engine runs fine but as posted it seems that there is a cut out (pressure switch) at play.
I also noted that the system never 'switches over', suggesting to me that the generator doesn't detect sufficient RPM/voltage to make the transfer?

Zertrider - I should also note that last weekend we were in a bit of a deep freeze - is it possible that with the heavier oil (15W-40), combined with the cold, the pickup wasn't able to circulate the oil well enough to build pressure?

Any other thoughts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, new clue here. You said the transfer switch did not switch. It cannot switch to a dead source. Check generator output voltage. It will shut down immediatley when you let go the start switch and the transfer switch will not go to generator even if you hold the switch in the start position if it is not making voltage. Coould be a couple of reasons so trouble shoot it and find out why.
You can eliminate the oil pressure issue by temporarily bypassing the oil pressure switch, just disconnect the wire. Danger here is if it really isn't making oil pressure, you will destroy the engine, use a mechnical gauge to be sure.

[FrontRangeRVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gunny:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LazyDog:
OK, so confessions first: My couple of weeks turned into darn near two months.
Finally got the chance to get back to the Rig last weekend. Hopped aboard and checked to ensure all was well and to exercise the genny. Hit the switch and .......... back to the same issue. Generator engine runs as long as I keep the start switch toggled into the start position, as soon as I let it go it stops. In my opinion the engine runs fine but as posted it seems that there is a cut out (pressure switch) at play.
I also noted that the system never 'switches over', suggesting to me that the generator doesn't detect sufficient RPM/voltage to make the transfer?

Zertrider - I should also note that last weekend we were in a bit of a deep freeze - is it possible that with the heavier oil (15W-40), combined with the cold, the pickup wasn't able to circulate the oil well enough to build pressure?

Any other thoughts? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, new clue here. You said the transfer switch did not switch. It cannot switch to a dead source. Check generator output voltage. It will shut down immediatley when you let go the start switch and the transfer switch will not go to generator even if you hold the switch in the start position if it is not making voltage. Coould be a couple of reasons so trouble shoot it and find out why.
You can eliminate the oil pressure issue by temporarily bypassing the oil pressure switch, just disconnect the wire. Danger here is if it really isn't making oil pressure, you will destroy the engine, use a mechnical gauge to be sure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BINGO!

The "do not use synthetic oil" recommendations are nonsense....Call Onan, they will say the same thing...

[LazyDog]

UPDATE!
I've been holding off posting this for fear, as previously, the 'fix' will prove to be unfounded.
BUT
After two trips to the 'Onan approved' dealer I think they have solved the issue. Initially I was told it was corroded brushes so they were cleaned up; "come and get her, she's ready". Took the afternoon off work and drove an hour only to listen to Genny not start. The next time back they changed out the circuit board and 'voila'! To give them credit, after the second fix the dealer agreed to deliver the Rig so we didn't have to go fetch it!
Two weekends of boondocking and about 35 hrs of running time and probably 20 starts - I'm ready to think the problem is solved.
Mind you, the next time out will be the first I won't have a borrowed portable generator as a backup so if it's gonna fail .......

Thanks to all who pitched in with advice! I learned a ton about oils and can now take proper care of my old girl!

[Hemi]

Lazy Dog and others:

I have the same problem.

The gen runs as long as I depress the start button on the gen (also it runs as long as I have the dashboard start depressed). Thus I read this thread with great interest.

Here is background. The generator is an Onan Genset Emerald I. It is in a 30-foot Holiday Rambler class A, 1986. I am third owner but previous owners took wonderful care of the coach and the systems.

The problem started about 6 months ago. I usually would start the gen once a month and let it run for about 2-3 minutes. Six months I ago I tried to start after the unit had not been started in about 2-3 months (my mistake!). It would fire up but then die after I released the start. I tried several times over a 1-month period, same problem. On first guess I thought it might be the carburetor because it got to the point where it would not even fire up unless I add a few cm3 of gasoline into the cyl.

About 3 weeks ago I removed the carb....the inside of the bowled look pretty bad so figured the carb is gunked up throughout. So I went to our local Onan shop (a great shop, deals mainly with Onan products) I picked up a new carburetor. Installed it last Wed. It fired right up but when I released the start switch the engine stopped. I checked the fuel pump by disconnecting the line. When I did the start switch, gas squirted out from the line...thus I am assuming the fuel pump (it is electric) is working.

I put this problem on irv2, this Systems section, but under the title of the thread is "Generator wows"�. ...there were some reasonable suggestions but none dealing the oil etc. Personally I can't see that I have an oil problem. I did change the oil about 1 year ago...it ran fine after I changed the oil. And I did check the oil last week, level is fine.

So, now I have just read and reread this complete thread including Lazy Dog's last entry (5 May). It seems that the circuit board (or all that behind the faceplate) is the problem I have, and soon I will take the unit to our local Onan shop along with a Crazy Dogs last thread. Crazy Dog in my search last week I did find a good analysis of this problem; see:

http://www.rverscorner.com/onan.html

To conclude, I welcome any input...however the thread is pretty good with lots of suggestions.; and thanks to Crazy Dog for keeping us completely informed/updates on the progress and solution to his problem

HEMI

[SCVJeff]

Just reading through this thread and one thing that caught mt attention is that you mention you run the genset 2-3 mins/month. The generator should be run (at least I always did) at least 30 mins/mo., and under a decent load, like the A/C, heater. MW, etc. This gets everything up to proper operating temp, boils all the moisture off of the oil, and keeps plugs from fouling up. My old 85' Pace (since replaced) still runs perfectly (and with Mobil-1), with no overhauls at all. Good luck on your original problem.. There are several things that will cause this.
Jeff

[Hemi]

Thanks Jeff, I will run it longer when it is fixed...30 minutes as you suggest, HEMI