Power draining quickly

[Iggie]

Bear with me here, I'm a new owner of a 29' 2018 Vista. We are dry camping for several days but finding that we are running out of charge daily, with minimal electrical usage. For example, ran the generator for an hour this morning and was fully charged at around 11:00am. I worked inside most of the day with nothing on but the TV, but by 4:00 the inverter was beeping at me and we were out of power. The previous owner, who has been a huge help, was only able to say this didn't sound right. Any thoughts anyone...?

[Morich]

I think this may be a case of little things which can confuse us and get us down. One is how we test batteries for charge. If we look at voltage on something like monitor or meter, soon after we have been charging, it will give us a false feeling that the battery is fully charged. This is called surface charge and is a very common item of confusion.
It takes much longer to recharge a battery than to discharge one, often a full day to really get a full charge as it is a pretty slow chemical reaction and has to work it's way through all the cells to get a full charge.
A battery which is half way down, put on charge for an hour will often show 12 volts or more is we shut down the generator and look at the voltage but if we come back in 2-3 hours it may only show 10 volts!
That leaves lots of room for having a new RV, using the batteries down to say 10 volts, recharging to what the meter says is 12+, so we use them again and since they are not really fully charged, we get even lower the second day and we repeat each day until the poor battery just refuses as it is really closer the dead than alive!
Voltage readings on batteries are only useful if the charging or discharging has been stopped for several hours.
Would that seem to fit what might be happening?

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Iggie

Bear with me here, I'm a new owner of a 29' 2018 Vista. We are dry camping for several days but finding that we are running out of charge daily, with minimal electrical usage. For example, ran the generator for an hour this morning and was fully charged at around 11:00am. I worked inside most of the day with nothing on but the TV, but by 4:00 the inverter was beeping at me and we were out of power. The previous owner, who has been a huge help, was only able to say this didn't sound right. Any thoughts anyone...?

Welcome to the forum.
Do you have a residential fridge? When dry docking I set my generator for auto start and my inverter power input to 5A. This allows the generator to charge the batteries when needed and I still have power available for other essentials. When plugged into 50A I set the inverter shore power to 30A. My inverter pulls about 16ADC for the fridge when dry docking.

[Iggie]

Thanks so much for these thoughtful replies. Our fridge is just the standard Winnebago fridge that toggles between gas and electric, so it switches over to gas on its own when electric is too low. So I'm unsure about that, though it is an interesting thought. I did make sure to turn off the outside fridge but that didn't seem to make any difference. We may be on to something with the not fully charging notion, but let me add some detail here that may (or may not) change the thinking. So let's assume I started our current trip on a low battery. Trust me here, a safe assumption. We then drove for 5 days straight cross-country, 5-7 hours a day. My assumption was that all that driving would have charged us up fully, though within a day of being at our destination and really doing nothing more than plugging in laptops, we started needing the generator. Also, I'm told this is a "deep cycle" battery, if that makes any difference in the thinking. It does seem like the notion of not being fully charged could be correct, but how long do I really need to charge it to get there? And do I need to plug in somewhere to really do so rather than just driving? We trip my father-in-law's garage breaker as soon as we plug it there...

[Goodspike]

I don't think 5-7 hours driving is going to necessarily get you charged if you are depleted when you start. But as to your original post . . ..

My initial thought was two things are going on. One you're not as charged as you think and you're using more power than you think.

As to you're not so charged, two weeks ago I fully charged my batteries at home and then installed them 24 hours in advance so the refrigerator would cool. A two hour tow to a campsite caused the battery charge indicator to again indicate a full charge. Two days without power, but with moderate use (propane fridge, water pump, slide out and in and minimal light use) caused the charge indicator to go down to 3/4 and the voltage 12.2. After a two hour tow home the charge indicator was full and the voltage 12.6, but it took about 8 hours on a 6 amp charger to bring each battery back up to full charge. I realize that you are driving longer, but it also sounds like you're draining the battery more.

As to use, the word inverter caught my attention, and also your mention of the refrigerator running off of electricity until it gets to a certain point. I read that as you're having more use of battery than what I was having on my trip. I don't have an inverter and the refrigerator just uses whatever 12 volt power it needs to function (which isn't insignificant). We're going on another two day trip shortly where we may need to use the furnace fan. I wouldn't consider doing that without bringing a generator with me to recharge. In your case I would only run your refrigerator(s) on propane if you're not going to be connected to electricity.

Finally, it's possible your batteries don't have the capacity they should, depending on how the prior owner treated them. I try not to drain my too far and I bring them home when not using the trailer so I can keep them charged. I also check the "water" levels. If you read reviews of batteries on Costco a lot of users complain they only last them a year. I suspect that's due to misuse.

[Iggie]

Another great, thoughtful answer. Thank you so much. I like the notion of switching the fridge over to propane full time while dry camping like this. Seems like a good, quick partial solution. And maybe it really is just an issue of not being as charged as I thought. Anyone have a guesstimate as to how long I should run the generator to get back up to a full charge? The generator says 120 volts on it (really, I do understand my share of things in this world, but electricity has never been one of them...)

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Iggie

The generator says 120 volts on it (really, I do understand my share of things in this world, but electricity has never been one of them...)

That would depend on your charging system, not the generator. Even a 1,000 watt generator would charge your batteries in the same time.

I don't have an answer for you on how long, sorry.

[Morich]

There are lots of things that change the answer of how long as different charging systems work different. The better systems have automatic sensing and reduce the current flow as the battery comes nearer being fully charged and then switches to a light current to maintain what we call float.
This is an article which I tend to trust as good info. and matching what I have see in industrial use of batteries:
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...d_acid_battery

For a quick look, here is a chart of this idea with one charging system. Looks like around three hours on their battery and equipment but that also requires the same battery, in the same condition (which always varies) and the same charge . An important item is the state of charge when we start charging!!!

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Morich

There are lots of things that change the answer of how long as different charging systems work different. The better systems have automatic sensing and reduce the current flow as the battery comes nearer being fully charged and then switches to a light current to maintain what we call float.

There's also the size of the batteries to be charged! Sort of like filling your gas tank, how long it takes depends on the size and how low it is. The rate the pump pumps out only determines part of the equation.

[creativepart]

All above responses are good. Let’s recap

Your batteries in storage were not at full charge you said was likely.

This is hard on your batteries and shortens their life. This is manifested in not holding a charge as well as when new or well cared for. If they sat for weeks at a very low state of charge the result could even be that they are unable to hold a charge. But for now we don’t have enough info to say that alone is your problem.

You keep the fridge on Auto when using your inverter to power other things.

This alone could be your main issue. I’d suggest never powering your fridge on electric unless you are plugged into shore power. The electric function on your fridge uses a lot of amps. It’s a heater and any electric heater uses lots of power - toasters, coffee makers, hair dryers are all examples of heaters that use a lot of power.

You run your generator a few hours to fully charge your batteries.

It’s likely that your batteries take a very long time to fully charge and it’s possible they are damaged and even after a lot of charging that they can’t hold that charge. But no doubt the generator isn’t getting your batteries to fully charged.

So add all of this up and I’d suspect you are getting to the crux of your problem.

It’s likely your batteries need either a lot of work to rejuvenate them to help them hold a charge better or they might need replaced. It’s not possible for us to know which is true. You may need to not only replace your batteries but to add a couple more if you plan on doing a lot of dry camping. It depends on how you use power.

Adding solar is another possible help. But only after you sort out your batteries.

Hope this helps.

[Iggie]

Really great answers here. Thanks very much everyone. And yeah, it does seem that we're getting to the crux of it, and I've learned a thing or two! As totally new RVers in the midst of our first cross-country (and back) trek, it's all been a learning experience, and aside from killing a little of my father-in-law's grass with the generator, all good so far. Thanks again all.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

As to you're not so charged, two weeks ago I fully charged my batteries at home and then installed them 24 hours in advance so the refrigerator would cool. A two hour tow to a campsite caused the battery charge indicator to again indicate a full charge. Two days without power, but with moderate use (propane fridge, water pump, slide out and in and minimal light use) caused the charge indicator to go down to 3/4 and the voltage 12.2. After a two hour tow home the charge indicator was full and the voltage 12.6, but it took about 8 hours on a 6 amp charger to bring each battery back up to full charge. I realize that you are driving longer, but it also sounds like you're draining the battery more.

I just had a trip cancelled by smoke, so I thought I would report these new facts.

As per my regular practice I took my batteries to the trailer 24 hours before my planned departure to allow the refrigerator to get to temp. I did not top off the batteries the day before because I had done so that week. And wrongly remembering my reservation had power, I thought it didn't really matter much.

Anyway, after 24 hours of just running the refrigerator on propane, and the various other vampire uses of the trailer (e.g. propane leak monitoring system), it took about 6 hours on a 6 amp charger to recharge each battery (two batteries total).

[Iggie]

That's interesting. Thanks so much @Goodspike. More evidence that I need to charge up a lot more than I had realized. The levels indicator shows the power at full capacity, but that's obviously not the case. I'm running the generator as much as I can each day now to try to catch up on the charging (until my father-in-law gets annoyed by it, but that's an issue for a whole other forum...) We hit the road again tomorrow so hopefully a good overnight plug-in will finally get us back up to full power.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Iggie

That's interesting. Thanks so much @Goodspike. More evidence that I need to charge up a lot more than I had realized. The levels indicator shows the power at full capacity, but that's obviously not the case. .

I didn't think to look at my charge indicator before disconnecting, but I wish I had. I was sort of bummed out by the trip cancellation.

[Goodspike]

One more thing. I was looking at my manual for another issue, and noticed it says the various drains on the battery will result in it being discharged within 72 hours if not plugged in. Not sure if they are assuming two batteries--seems a bit short.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

One more thing. I was looking at my manual for another issue, and noticed it says the various drains on the battery will result in it being discharged within 72 hours if not plugged in. Not sure if they are assuming two batteries--seems a bit short.

My dealer said the same thing. My 2401RG has been sitting unplugged for over 7 days and is currently sitting at 12.41VDC, or about 75% charge. That's with everything off, including the fridge, but battery switch on. Before that, I was dry camping and using my 200W "solar suitcase" to keep up the charge, but the eastern sierra was so smokey, it wasn't keeping up. I have 2 x 220ah 6V batteries.

With the little group 24 marine battery that came with the trailer, it would be below 12V by now.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Old Navy

My dealer said the same thing. My 2401RG has been sitting unplugged for over 7 days and is currently sitting at 12.41VDC, or about 75% charge. That's with everything off, including the fridge, but battery switch on.

I was assuming they meant with the refrigerator on. I suspect it uses a bit of power on propane. I even turn the water pump off at night for fear its pressure sensors somehow use power.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I was assuming they meant with the refrigerator on. I suspect it uses a bit of power on propane. I even turn the water pump off at night for fear its pressure sensors somehow use power.

The pressure switch on your water pump is a simple spring loaded button with a rubber diaphragm. No power is used. The water pressure pushes on the diaphragm which pushes on the power switch. No 12v is used by this function. The pump uses powere only when pumping.

Your fridge on propane does use a little 12v power for the controls etc.