Surge Protectors

[Jim Bob]

I was told by the salesman that my new 2014 Journey had a built in surge protector so I didn't need to transfer my hard wired one from my old coach to the new one. I called Winnebago and they also said I didn't need one either. Whats your thoughts on this?

[rream]

Wish I had one in my 2012. If the manufacture says it is ok then why would it not be ok

[Dr4Film]

Don't believe them! They are sales people!

Besides, unless Winnebago is now installing Progressive Industries EMS Power Monitor Systems, then whatever they are installing is not as good as this one.

Progressive Electrical Management System, Hardwire 50A/240V EMS-HW50C

JMHO

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[khogle2]

Originally Posted by Jim Bob

I was told by the salesman that my new 2014 Journey had a built in surge protector so I didn't need to transfer my hard wired one from my old coach to the new one. I called Winnebago and they also said I didn't need one either. Whats your thoughts on this?

I found this out when my 2013 Adventurer gas had a transfer switch problem that couldn't be resolved. The diesel Winnebago's use the TRC transfer switch which has some sort of surge protection built in. My Adventurer now has a diesel transfer switch to resolve the issue.




I still use my progressive surge guard as well by the way.

[tderonne]

Hmmm, wiring diagram doesn't show anything more than a switch. Gotta dig a little more.

[khogle2]

It's in the transfer switch as shown above

[NeilV]

I don't like a single point of failure myself. If the surge protector built into the transfer switch takes a hit can it be reset in the field by the user or does it have to be sent out to be rebuilt? I would still transfer the surge protector I already owned so if I did have a surge I could fall back to the built in surge protector and still be running while the other surge protector is being reset at the service center. I run a Surge Guard into a Hughs Autoformer Surge Protector and Boost Transformer to also overcome low voltage damage to the coach. That way if the Surge Guard takes a hit I still have the AutoFormer providing proper voltage and surge protection.

I have been running almost 7 years this way now with no more electrical gear failing from brownout damage. On my stay in Clermont the last 2 weeks of November the AutoFormer was in boost mode easily half the time I was there bringing low voltage back up to spec. Without it things would have been running hot and stressed wearing out faster 50% of the time I was there.

[Jim Bob]

I just called TRC and asked about the protection afforded by the 41260 surge guard transfer switch and was told I needed additional protection if this is the model switch I have in my coach. He said if I have the 40250 switch I would not need another surge guard. Looks like I may have to get the portable surge guard after all. Jim

[Hikerdogs]

You should have received 2 owners manuals with your new coach. One is a generic manual that covers the items found in all coaches of that year and model. The second is a supplemental manual specific to the serial number of your coach.

The supplemental manual should have a section covering the transfer switch and any other components dealing with the electrical power. If you do have a surge protector it will be covered in detail in this section.

I seriously doubt you have a factory installed surge protector. If you did it would be something unique to the 2014 Journey. The fact that it isn't mentioned anywhere on the Winnebago website or in any Winnebago publications leads me to believe the salesman is "misinformed". Adding a high dollar item like this would certainly be something to advertise.

Just to make sure you can make a call to the factory:

If you own one of our motor homes and have a question about it, we encourage you to contact our Service Administration area by phone or email.
• (800)-537-1885

We called before ordering our 2013 Adventurer and asked for a detailed list of items new for 2013. They had the information at hand and gave us the list over the phone.

On edit: I guess I was a little late to the party

[khogle2]

Originally Posted by Jim Bob

I just called TRC and asked about the protection afforded by the 41260 surge guard transfer switch and was told I needed additional protection if this is the model switch I have in my coach. He said if I have the 40250 switch I would not need another surge guard. Looks like I may have to get the portable surge guard after all. Jim

That's why I still use the progressive unit together with the TRC Transfer Switch

[khogle2]

But it's still a better Transfer switch than my old one and I appreciate Winnebago installing this one for me.

[Dr4Film]

So what was your OLD one?

Was it an IOTA which are the worst transfers switches EVER.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[dengraham]

Jim Bob,
The only thing you are missing is the high/low voltage. If you installed the unit from your prior coach you would be covered. The Precision Circuits System cover the other items. So, just transfer the old system to your new motorhome and you will be good to go.

[flaggship1]

Originally Posted by NeilV

I don't like a single point of failure myself. If the surge protector built into the transfer switch takes a hit can it be reset in the field by the user or does it have to be sent out to be rebuilt? I would still transfer the surge protector I already owned so if I did have a surge I could fall back to the built in surge protector and still be running while the other surge protector is being reset at the service center. I run a Surge Guard into a Hughs Autoformer Surge Protector and Boost Transformer to also overcome low voltage damage to the coach. That way if the Surge Guard takes a hit I still have the AutoFormer providing proper voltage and surge protection.

I have been running almost 7 years this way now with no more electrical gear failing from brownout damage. On my stay in Clermont the last 2 weeks of November the AutoFormer was in boost mode easily half the time I was there bringing low voltage back up to spec. Without it things would have been running hot and stressed wearing out faster 50% of the time I was there.

you have a Hughes - I have a Power Master. You have a Surge Guard. I have a PI. You run the Surge Guard before the Hughes. I run the Power Master in front of the PI. My power cord is modified to allow the bypass of PI or Power Master or both. Both are ahead of the transfer switch and I'm ok with that.

I believe the Hughes and know the Power Master VC both have the same surge handling capability as the PI. I run it first to boost low voltage first. With the PI in front, fluctuating AC can take you offline - so the VC brings it up if it can. Then through the PI SP. I use a tester before hooking up - and if the pole looks wimpy I can easily switch the configuration.
I made this tester - Richard - Dr for Film has made a few for others...


[ATTACH]51455[/ATTACH


This isn't a difficult or elegant install but works for me. And - nothing coming from the factory on coaches owned by we mere mortals is gonna compete with either or our configurations.



Edit - pictures went wacky lol.
(Hi Richard - I owe you an email. Congrats to better half!)

[khogle2]

Gas models seem to have Progressive models, diesels seem to have TRC. At least the 2013, not sure about the past models.

Mine, and at least one other identical gas model I am aware of, could not handle the automatic generator startup with both A/C compressors on (under certain circumstances). Two ATS's were tried on mine unsuccessfully. The Winnebago service rep installed the diesel TRC unit and the issue is resolved.

I think the EE for Winnebago underestimated the electrical load.

[NeilV]

I put the Surge Guard first since it is the cheaper unit and more inexpensive to repair if it takes a sacrificial hit. It also has all the diagnostics built into it to determine if the power pole is just no good. If the Surge Guard detects low power I just switch it to bypass the low power shutoff so it still provides surge protection and let the Hughs unit do its job of boosting the voltage back where it should be. SurgeGuards service center is local to me so I don't have to ship it out for resetting which is more convienent and gives a faster turn around.

To me it is just more cost effective and the more expensive Hughs unit will still be running afterwards correcting brownout conditions and providing surge protection after a big hit takes out the other unit. The other way around the Hughs unit takes the hit when its first in line and then you no longer have correction only protection from the Surge Guard.

I have them set up with plugs and sockets so I can reconfigure them easily if I have too.

[Davdeb1]

I have a hardwired surge protector. It has a key on it to bypass. I use the key when I plug into my converter. The problem I had a couple of weeks ago, it would be fine all day, and then all electric would kick in the middle of the night. There's no way to tell if its low or high voltage. Well, it kicks right back on and you wait 2 minutes while it goes through the check process. I stayed up wired for 1/2 hour, no problems. I went back to sleep, it goes off. I had to use the bypass key so I could sleep. I went to a different park for 9 days, no problem.

Is it a sign of a surge protector going bad?

[flaggship1]

^^ - thanks for sharing your logic. One thing I don't know about Hughes, Power Master, PI or Surge Guard - off the top of my head they take up to 3700 Joules of Surge (or whatever the number is - it's late) but what does that mean? Does a surge hit < = to max kill them. You mention "the cheaper" box takes the hit" but what does being built to take a hit mean exactly? I assume if the max stated surge level is exceeded - say the fabled direct lightening hit - neither one will keep the surge from passing through to the next one and down the line. And both can in theory take the same hit. Does taking a < max hit just mean they block it and die? Or below / equal the max they block and survive up to some point? Do you happen to know?

I usually don't think of a hit as being a sudden drop of neutral or ground - so if they test ok and they pole looks solid - I don't think of that as a high probability occurrence that will hit my VC but it could happen. It's usually low voltage that's thebissue. So if the SP shuts down due to low voltage you bypass the SP and go with just the Autoformer - did I get that right?

Maybe I'll take my VC offline - and just go with the PI unless voltage is low. I don't know if there is a right or wrong - but you're right for sure that the VCs are about 2x the price of the SPs. And sacrificing the cheaper makes sense, but seems to sideline or limit the use of the VC that could be keeping ya in line all the time and not have - as I have had - intermittent drops. I do think my VC is ok where it is - and as I said - can position them in any order.

Edit - yea my PI does all the checks my test meter does too - but I test the post before hooking up. If I gotta move, I don't want to have to lug that cord back to the bay. Lazy I guess.

Thanks for the reply. Been a while since i thought about this.
-----------
Hey Richard - you listening - I know you took your Power Master offline at one time - but don't recall why?? Any thoughts?

[flaggship1]

Originally Posted by Davdeb1

I have a hardwired surge protector. It has a key on it to bypass. I use the key when I plug into my converter. The problem I had a couple of weeks ago, it would be fine all day, and then all electric would kick in the middle of the night. There's no way to tell if its low or high voltage. Well, it kicks right back on and you wait 2 minutes while it goes through the check process. I stayed up wired for 1/2 hour, no problems. I went back to sleep, it goes off. I had to use the bypass key so I could sleep. I went to a different park for 9 days, no problem.

Is it a sign of a surge protector going bad?

Hey Dave - how goes!! You two having fun yet? I cant say for sure on your problem - but I think it could have been voltage dropping too low. Does yours not show codes. I don't know em off the top of my head - but think your should show last code. That's what I was just saying - if you're at a place were voltage fluctuates between ok and too low due to demand - my Voltage Controller is correcting that before the SP shuts it down for the recycle.

Tell Deb Annie says hi!

[NeilV]

The clamps in the SurgeGuard are sacrificial and when they divert a catastrophic surge have to be replaced. Have not read up the details on it for some years since I made the determination to put the least expensive component first in line to get sacrificed. The SurgeGuard will go on low power shut down at a much lower voltage than the Hughs starts boosting at and that said I have only a few times had to bypass the SurgeGuard set up the way I have it however I am tempted to leave the low voltage shut down on the SurgeGuard on bypass all the time now.

Every now and then I start to look at the new tech and get more up to date but don't get past the price tags. What I got is still working and has saved me a lot of repairs over the years so why go through the exercise?