Water pump not recognizing "OnePlace"

[jayelldouble]

The water pump in my 2016 Navion "G" works fine if I switch it on from the switch in the bathroom or the one in the water bay. But it will not recognize the One Place button to turn on or off. The other One Place functions work just as they should i.e. reading tank levels, starting and stopping the generator, etc. The One Place display does show the correct status for the water pump, either off or on, but will not change it. I reset the One Place according to the instructions found at the Precision Circuits Inc. website and it did just what they said it ought to do at each step but the problem remains. Anyone had a similar problem?

thanks,
John in San Diego
2016 Navion "G"

[Winterbagoal]

I have to (sometimes) press it once to "wake up" the panel, and again to toggle on/off.

[jayelldouble]

Yes that used to work with mine too - but now it doesn't matter how many times I wake it up it goes right back to sleep. It will change from "off" to "on" or vice versa but only as long as I hold the button. Not that big a deal but I fear it may be the start of a total failure of the One Place panel.

[Winterbagoal]

Oh, good. Something to look forward to.

I assume you've tried various scenarios, with the other 2 switch locations in either setting, when you try the One Place button? Both on, both off, on one, one off, and so on?

Try waking the panel with another test button, then try the pump?

[Wandd]

Originally Posted by jayelldouble

The water pump in my 2016 Navion "G" works fine if I switch it on from the switch in the bathroom or the one in the water bay. But it will not recognize the One Place button to turn on or off. The other One Place functions work just as they should i.e. reading tank levels, starting and stopping the generator, etc. The One Place display does show the correct status for the water pump, either off or on, but will not change it. I reset the One Place according to the instructions found at the Precision Circuits Inc. website and it did just what they said it ought to do at each step but the problem remains. Anyone had a similar problem?

thanks,
John in San Diego
2016 Navion "G"

Hi Jay…I see your post was 2018 but I’m experiencing similar problems with water pump button on the One Place Systems monitor. The pump registers a Fail but I can turn the pump on with either remote switch at the water intake or bathroom. I’ve tried various combinations of switches on or off. I’ve switch the intake from normal to tank fill. I’ve reset the monitor. Do you have any suggestions?

[Morich]

After looking at this question on other years and models of the Winnebago line, I have some ideas, even though the online info for the newer post 2010 models is not complete enough to point directly to the problem.
Before the 2010 year, we get online schematics that let us trace the 12 VDC path wire by wire. Not so after 2010, so we have a major hole in the road for fully troubleshooting the problem if it is a 12VDC problem. On the 110 AC section we still get good info!

I might be able to throw in some info but nothing that will let you go directly to troubleshooting, due to a lack of info.
Are you familiar with the way switches in our house may have several switches which all can control one central item like a light? For instance a hall light which can be controlled from several different locations?

This system to control the pump is much the same, even though it is 12VDC instead of 110AC, the switching and path are much the same.
In home use, you may have noticed that one switch flipped up and then flipped down may turn off the light but at other times that same switch handle may be reversed and get the same result, either light on or light off?
That is because the other switches used in the system have been set differently!
That relates to how our RV water pump switches work! We have switches which have to "communicate" with other switches, instead of only working with the pump.

This makes the repair lots more difficult as ALL the switches have to be working correctly and the one which appears to have failed in not necessarily the real problem as it may be good but not getting the correct path at other switches!

Without knowing how your specific RV is wired to make this work, I would be hard pressed to sort out the wiring without the schematics of what they built.
I will throw in the idea that it should not involve the fill normal switch as that is involved with the water flow and not the pump electrical path.

[Wandd]

Originally Posted by Morich

After looking at this question on other years and models of the Winnebago line, I have some ideas, even though the online info for the newer post 2010 models is not complete enough to point directly to the problem.
Before the 2010 year, we get online schematics that let us trace the 12 VDC path wire by wire. Not so after 2010, so we have a major hole in the road for fully troubleshooting the problem if it is a 12VDC problem. On the 110 AC section we still get good info!

I might be able to throw in some info but nothing that will let you go directly to troubleshooting, due to a lack of info.
Are you familiar with the way switches in our house may have several switches which all can control one central item like a light? For instance a hall light which can be controlled from several different locations?

This system to control the pump is much the same, even though it is 12VDC instead of 110AC, the switching and path are much the same.
In home use, you may have noticed that one switch flipped up and then flipped down may turn off the light but at other times that same switch handle may be reversed and get the same result, either light on or light off?
That is because the other switches used in the system have been set differently!
That relates to how our RV water pump switches work! We have switches which have to "communicate" with other switches, instead of only working with the pump.

This makes the repair lots more difficult as ALL the switches have to be working correctly and the one which appears to have failed in not necessarily the real problem as it may be good but not getting the correct path at other switches!

Without knowing how your specific RV is wired to make this work, I would be hard pressed to sort out the wiring without the schematics of what they built.
I will throw in the idea that it should not involve the fill normal switch as that is involved with the water flow and not the pump electrical path.

Hi Morich…thanks for your input. We recently acquired a 2013 Navion 24J…if that is helpful. I’ve tried various combinations of switch positions and I’m familiar with 110 v three way switches.. This unit has two remote switches in addition to the monitor. One in the bathroom and one near the water intake valve. I’ve thrived resetting the monitor a number of times …all with no luck. Is it possible that the pump switch in the monitor is hooched? Thanks for any and all helps…

[Morich]

I might think the switch at the monitor is one suspect but it seems it might also be one of the other lines going to the other switches??

Winnebago odes give us lots of info on the 2009 model. Does that info match for your later model? UNKNOWN! I suspect yes and if I were doing this, I would try taking a look at some of the easier points to access and try to see if it matches!

I spot the water pump and monitor panel wiring on the drawings for the 2009 and I'm up for helping if it is something you want to get into and need the help reading/sorting the info.
I want to stay somewhere around willing to help but not acting like I know it all!

Sometimes we want to fix things but then back off when it gets too much! So where do you stand on this? Are you up for backing off repair or do you want to go into taking some switches out and looking at the wires to possibly test them?

For info, we can go to the 2009 model info and hope (assume) that it will match for your model. That often happens in RV as some things are slow to change and we might get lucky.
I can help to sort the drawings for info if you are then willing to dig into the parts to see if it matches.

Winn gives us a chart to "decode" a label stamped on each of the small wires they used.
Example:


And "decoder" chart:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf

I found this on the drawings for 2009. Click to get a better larger view.
This drawing:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ire_168781.pdf



I'm thinking you may be able to follow this drawing that shows the switches, monitor and how it gets from point to point. But that is a guess that needs testing.
Warning! This can get tricky if not used to testing and looking a electrical, so be warned!
If the drawing matches what you find, I can help talk it over and see where it goes or I can also understand if more than you may want to bite off!

Got a meter and time, so that you want to go forward? Or time to back off?
One of the first challenges may be getting to the cable and plug that is in the wall behind the monitor!

I have the time and willing to make suggestions but I'm not here to try to drive you crazy, either!

[Morich]

I just noticed a point that may be a clue to where the problem might be found.
I think there will be a water heater switch on the monitor panel which uses the same two wires for that switch as is used for the water pump!
If wires JA and JS get to the water heater switch on the panel, I think that would mean it is good to the pump switch on the panel? Needs tested but is there a way to find out if the water heater switch on the panel works as it should?
It might still be the little button switch is bad but it might be a start to know that power and ground are getting through the wiring to the panel as they seem to be the same feed!
I've learned it's okay to cheat when we can!
Just so we don't make it a habit on other things!

[Wandd]

Where to start…May be lengthy,sorry. So for starters, shut battery switch off and unplugged house power…and then turned back on, no change.
This am found both exterior and bathroom switches on and couldn’t turn them off?…sometime later they started working properly again?
Pulled the monitor and unplugged J2 connector (one in the middle of the monitor) tested connectors 1&5 (wire markings are JN1 (JN1 and JN2 are spliced together) and XX2 respectively) which are supposed to be water pump…and got 2.57 volts when the water pump is off and 7.76 v when I turn the remote water pump switches on.
I do have limited knowledge here but I feel certain if I have read everything correctly, I have power to the water pump at the monitor switch.
I have not pulled the remote switches in the water intake and bathroom areas as yet.
Any suggestions to this point?
Sorry for delays in response as much happening here…
Warren

[Wandd]

Further to your question water heater is working correctly on electric setting and just guessing here but I suspect that those two spliced wires JN1 and JN2 are what you are referencing…

[jayelldouble]

My Oneplace cured itself of the original problem years ago and worked normally until my latest trip - now it does work but it thinks I have two black tanks and two gray tanks - but the levels it shows on the display for "Tank one" of each seems correct. I have owned and ridden old British motorcycles for decades so electrical gremlins are nothing new to me - this is a pretty minor problem as it all still works, just the displays are kooky.

[Morich]

I think you may be looking at the signs of the problem if I understand where you are getting those low voltages.


when the switches at other places are working right, power comes in like the green line on this drawing from the battery. It runs to the switch and is set right to run, goes through that switch and goes back to the ground and makes a full circuit (circle?) to make the pump run.

But if you are not getting near full battery voltage going into the monitor panel board that is a problem. IT should be full 12volts coming into the panel on one wire and if that switch is set to run, it should come out and go to the pump. Just like the green line which works but the red line doesn't!
If you unplug that 15 pin connector from the panel, there should be near 12volts on pin 1.
Power in on JA, through the panel switch and goes out on JS to the pump. So if no good power getting to the panel, the switch can't send it out to the pump and you are dead!
Maybe unplug from the monitor panel and look at the end of the wire coming in for 12volts on pin 1? If good there, then try plugging it together to send it into the panel and check if 12Volts comes out on JS going to the pump!

[Wandd]

More follow up on the water pump issue…making me crazy.
Replaced the fuse…no change.
I have monitor and two remote switches…now nothing working to start the pump.
Removed the monitor and with full battery charge, pulled J2 connector as per manual and tested pins #1 & #5 and found current to pump at monitor to be 12.35 volts. While J2 connector was disconnected from the monitor, the two remote switches began to function normally. So I activated the pump and while running retested the charge to the monitor and found it a steady 12.30 volts.
I have reset the monitor numerous times and still no change…the pump remains “off” even though the remotes are on but if I press the pump switch it will light up the monitor.
All fault seems to be with the monitor pump switch as everything else seems to check out.
Question…con the switch be replaced or is it a complete monitor replacement?
Any other suggestions?

[Wandd]

In my previous post I refer to pins #1&5…Ive also seen them more correctly referred to as pins #4&5…top left and bottom right of pin connector J2…in case there is confusion.

[Morich]

This does get tricky and I do not work with three way switches, even on house stuff often enough to keep it clear in my head! I always have to refer to the box the new switch comes in to figure it out and fix things!

The big point is that the all the switches make have to make a path from battery through the motor and back to ground OR when they are flipped the other way, they provide a path that lets any other switch make that path good!
Click this drawing for how they do that.


When thrown one way, this type switch sends battery to the pump and if the other switches are right, it goes through the pump winding and finds ground! That completes the circuit and the pump runs!
OR
If the other switches are still the same, flipping this switch, stops sending battery and instead sends ground to the motor. That ground simply goes through the motor and back to ground and nothing happens!
So what we get is a set of three switches which depend on what the others are doing.
If the other switches have the circuit complete and the pump is running, we flip this switch and it opens the circuit to stop the pump!
But if the other switches are completing the circuit and we move this one, it opens the path to stop the motor.

Very tricky and hard to explain what to expect at the monitor connection! But what has failed is likely to be the small switches on the monitor panel, if they are what I think of being there.
Are they just little rubber covered buttons like many boards have when they want very small parts?
Or are they full size toggle switches of some sort?

If they are the super small button switches like many circuit boards, they are likely out of our reach for being able to change them out!
Just about too small and delicate to get off the board and replaced without burning the board too much!

The super small and where we are most likely to turn the pump on and off also make them the most likely to fail. The remote switches are likely bigger and sturdier and we don't use them nearly as often!

[Wandd]

Thank you Morach…
The monitor is One Place control monitor series 2 with auto generator/stop/meter. You are correct the buttons are 1/4 inch rubber that depress a button affixed to the circuit board. When the J2 connector is attched providing power to the monitor, the remote switches are either both indicating “on” and can’t be turned off or both off and can’t be turned on.
I agree that the monitor button gets 80% of the usage normally. I do not get a “click” when it is depressed like the other switches on the panel.
It would take younger and muvch more skilled hands than mine to attemp to replace the switch on the board but it is likely possible.
I think all of this is as a result of a power surge three weeks ago, as I lost our inverter at the same time. We now have a surge protector but I’m likely going to have to replace the monitor.
Thanks again for your help…

[Morich]

The lack of a click may be telling us something.
Back when far more excited about knowing what is in those, I took a few apart when they failed. There was a small metal disk that was depressed when we pushed the button. That metal disk then moved off one set of contacts to meet a different set. Kind of like the normal switch that lets a handle move contacts except a whole lot less sturdy as it depended on the metal maintaining the "flex" motion.
Still part of the problem is that we get the wire info on the remote switches but nothing on the switch on the board, just info on the wires that connect to the board.
I'm going pretty far out on a limb but it seems logical that the board may have to be the solution??