Aux. start solenoid location 2019 Vista 29VE

[fun camper]

I have a 2019 Vista 29VE and I am planning on replacing the Aux. Start Solenoid with a DC to DC charger to accommodate Lithium batteries.
Does anyone know where the Aux. Start Solenoid is located and the best way to access it. Would rather learn from someone else than chase wires around under the chassis. Thanks

[Morich]

I think we can cover that for you !
outside under a cover on driver's side, a bit behind driver?
Click these snips for better view! From this drawing set:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File.../000126353.pdf



See if that gets you to it?

[fun camper]

Thanks for the help, this will save me lots of digging around. Looks like the fuse panel must be removed for access so it would have been hard to find.

[Morich]

Yes, those I have had were a bear to get to when needed.
But on the good side? It has lots of the connections you might need and it IS some space that isn't good for much of anything else!
I try to not get too close to the lithium talk as it is not one I ever went into.

Best of luck on the search for info!
The old thing about proper prior planning may go a long way!

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by fun camper

I have a 2019 Vista 29VE and I am planning on replacing the Aux. Start Solenoid with a DC to DC charger to accommodate Lithium batteries.

I'm not sure if you mean what you said in that quote above or if you are just referring to the process of changing your alternator charging to your new LFP batteries.

That Solenoid does more than provide emergency starting. It combines the house and chassis battery banks for alternator charging.

So, you'll not want to "replace" that solenoid with your DC2DC charger. Instead you'll want to remove the House battery charging from that solenoid but keep the solenoid intact to charge your chassis battery via the alternator.

If you already know all this and just misspoke with the "replacing" comment I apologize.

If you have any questions about this I'll do my best to help. I have done this same process on my 2017 Adventurer when I installed LFP batteries. However, the Vista solenoid is not the same as the Adventurer BIM (Battery Isolation Manager.)

One more thing... are you aware the Precision Circuits Li-BIM 225? This is a device that actually does replace your Aux Solenoid and does away with the need for a D2D charger. It's not a perfect solution but it is a very workable solution and is used by hundreds or thousands of users.

[fun camper]

Thanks for the input.
Here was my thinking:
Move the chassis side connection on the solenoid to the input on the DC to DC charger.
Move the coach side connection on the solenoid to the output of the DC to DC charger.
Move the ignition connection from the solenoid to the DC to DC charger to turn it on only when the engine is running. This will also isolate the two battery banks when it's not running, just like the solenoid. I am aware this will make the emergency start switch on the dash no longer functional. I was just going to get one of those jump starter battery packs and keep it in the motor home just in case.

I don't think this should change the chassis side charging should it?
Also, I have not heard of the Precision Circuits Li-BIM 225 I will be looking into it.

Once again thanks for the input, I am no expert and I am looking for all the help I can get.

[creativepart]

I think you have it incorrect.

You want to disconnect the House (coach) connection to the solenoid. This removes alternator charging from your House LFP batteries.

Then a typical installation of the D2D charger would be to attach new wiring between the chassis battery and the D2D charger. Then wire the D2D charger output to the House battery bank.

If you remove the Chassis battery connection from the solenoid you will deplete your chassis battery as you drive because there is nothing charging it.

Also, with your plan none of the House and Chassis disconnect solenoids inside the RV will work as they require power from that solenoid to operate.

The Li-BIM is a direct replacement for your Aux Start Solenoid. It works just like your current solenoid and offers all of the same features... including Aux Start switching.

Here's what it does to protect your alternator from overheating - when you first start the Motor it connects your house and chassis batteries to the alternator for charging both banks. After about 15 mins it automatically disconnects your house batteries from alternator charging. Then after a period of time (10 mins??) it will reconnect the House bank to the alternator again. It keeps turning house bank charging on and off as you drive.

I didn't use this method, but went with a D2D charger to charge my LFP batteries. The Li-BIM was a brand new product with very few reviews at the time. Now, it's a popular option.

It's not as perfect a charging plan as using a D2D but over the past 4 years of use many people report it working great in their RVs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8wnqlNguYw

[fun camper]

Once again thank you for your input and video.

I will have to do some more research.
I am under the understanding that the Disconnect Solenoid is basically a (dumb) switch that simply creates a path for current to flow between the chassis battery/alternator circuit and the house batteries. Not sure why removing that switch would affect anything but the charging of the house batteries which, instead of having a direct connection to the alternator, would be charged from the DC to DC charger.

Like I said, this is new to me. I will have to continue my research.

Thanks again

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by fun camper

Not sure why removing that switch would affect anything but the charging of the house batteries which, instead of having a direct connection to the alternator, would be charged from the DC to DC charger.

The Aux solenoid has multiple purposes. It isolates the house battery from the chassis battery. When you start the RV that ignition sense wire senses that the engine is running and it uses the power present in the connections to physically move contacts inside the solenoid to connect the two battery banks allowing the alternator to charge both the house and chassis battery banks. Then when you turn off the engine it again uses power to move the contacts to separate the house and chassis batteries.

When you press the Aux Start button on the dash you trigger that solenoid to connect both banks momentarily to help boost battery power for starting in a emergency.

If you totally remove the solenoid then nothing will get to either battery bank. But as you say the D2D charger will be charging your House bank. But there will be no connection to your chassis battery from the Alternator without the Solenoid in place.

As to your house and chassis disconnect solenoids, when you use the small rocker switches to disconnect the house and chassis batteries for when you store the RV, the two always require 12v power to operate each solenoid.

This would not be the case if you have a rotary cutoff (AKA Salesman's switch) because that device does not require power. It's a manual cut off. However, I feel certain you have rocker switches, probably in the stairwell, but could be on the dash to disconnect your house and chassis batteries for RV storage.

Does that answer your question? Or have I missed the point??

[Morich]

I think there may be some confusion creeping in on the chassis side of the question. Beg to differ?

I don't see the mode solenoid as bing in the place mentioned. I think of the chassis side of the stripped chassis as being what we would find on any normal truck before the RV is added on top.
The stripped chassis is close to a fully operating vehicle but without cab windsheild, etc.

To me that makes the chsis alternator connected to the chassis battery as normal.
When the RV is then built on top, I see them adding the mode solenoid and coach items as those are not on the normal truck.

I see the mode solenoid as a seperate item added to the OEM truck part, not in the middle of the circuit but alongside it! Not interupting the chain from alternator to the chassis battery but adding a second "leg" to the existing.


Itry to back off from the DC-DC and lithium discussions as Ihave not done those but I do not see the mode solenoid as required to keep the alternator charging the chassis.
I feel it is only used to connect/disconnect chassis to coach!

I do agree it has two functions, one to "jump start" a weak chassis battery by using the dash switch and the seconc and more often used is to recharge a coach battery as we drive.
If we disconnect either the path to coach or path to chassis batteries, we lose both functions until we add any second path but I don't feel it cuts alternator to chassis charging.

Differing view open to discussion?

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Morich

I don't see the mode solenoid as bing in the place mentioned. I think of the chassis side of the stripped chassis as being what we would find on any normal truck before the RV is added on top.
The stripped chassis is close to a fully operating vehicle but without cab windsheild, etc.

To me that makes the chsis alternator connected to the chassis battery as normal.

I know that they make many changes to the stripped chassis when they install all the other systems.

It could be somehow different in the 2019 Vista that I'm not aware of. I certainly could be incorrect and if I am I'm sorry for any confusion.

It would be somewhat troublesome, but one could test all of this by disconnecting the chassis battery at the solenoid. Then start the motor and put a multimeter on the chassis battery to see if it's getting a charge from the alternator.

Your drawing in Post #2 shows the chassis battery connection on the solenoid. See the circled item in the image below.

[fun camper]

This may give a better understanding (scroll down to the 4th page)
I guess I will have to tear into it and verify some things with my meter.

SOLENOID WD.pdf

[Morich]

Originally Posted by creativepart

I know that they make many changes to the stripped chassis when they install all the other systems.

It could be somehow different in the 2019 Vista that I'm not aware of. I certainly could be incorrect and if I am I'm sorry for any confusion.

It would be somewhat troublesome, but one could test all of this by disconnecting the chassis battery at the solenoid. Then start the motor and put a multimeter on the chassis battery to see if it's getting a charge from the alternator.

Your drawing in Post #2 shows the chassis battery connection on the solenoid. See the circled item in the image below.

Yes, the chassis and coach batteries both have connections on the mode solenoid. But the connection from alternator to the chassis battery is not shown on these drawings but is more of what we might call a "tee" that is before the solenoid.
I think it will be more like this. Leaving lots of the small points like control wires out to keep it easier.

If we take the cable from chassis side off the solenoid, the connection from alternator to chassis battery is still good! The only use of the chassis cable on the solenoid is so that we can get it connected to the coach side when we want it as it charges the coach side whille we drive OR if we want to jump start the engine and push the switch.

I think if the chassis battery cable is taken off the solenoid, you will find 12V battery on the cable end as it is still connected to the battery. And as a way to see if it is also connected to the alternator, rev the engine and the voltage will rise/fall in time with the RPM.
But that is not something I cab verify by looking at the Winn. drawings as it is not considered part of their worries but part of the stripped chassis which they often ignore!
But then I also am coming up with some details that their drawings do not agree on when looking at the mode solenoid!

If we look at one part of the electrical drawings, we get a drawing of the Cole-hershey, but when OP looks at a different layer of drawing, we get the Trombetta brand with the main lugs at the top instead of at the sides.
Why? is it an older drawing which did not get totally updated when a change was made? Or is it the drawingI looked at that is not correct?
So I then went to the interactive parts drawings and there it is shown as the Cole!
I suspect it best to peek in under the fuse panel to verify? There really isn't that much difference in the two for my use. They both use the same control wires (LR & FM) and do much the same thing in the same way.
There are those who feel one is super much better than the other but I've forgotten which they felt was better! Things that last 15-20 years before fail are not things I spend much effort on the choice.
I go with the same type to avoid drilling new mounting holes!
What the parts catalog shows?


Any way to peek under the fuse panel to see what's there? A shiny can at the left side with cables on left and right for the Cole or is it black bakelight type with big connections on top for Trombetta?

[dkoldman]

I am about 90% complete with doing the same thing on my 2019 29VE, I looked at lots of scenarios but decided to do the following.

I put a secure switch to effectively turn my Trombetta On/OFF. It is currently ON as I still have my AGM batteries installed so all is normal. But will always be OFF once my Dc2DC is enabled.

I upgraded my Progressive Dynamics charger in favor of new Progressive Dynamics charger that allow user defined profiles based on battery type.

I am installing the Victron Energy XS 50 amp now. I decided to mount it on the wall in lower compartment next to steps.

Total conversion cost is $502

I have brand new 300ah Lithium batteries that I will install later. No rush because my vMax tanks still have a little life left.

I considered wiring the DC to DC off the connections of trombetta but decided it was too much going on inside that electrical panel, but the wiring and posts are all there, you just have to find a ground. I have thread on all of this.

[Morich]

Glad you popped up, Mr. K!
I was thinking of suggesting a look at your trek, but late to the show this morning!

Which brings a thought? I remember you having what I consider a Cole-Hershy look but labeled Trombeta!
So does anybody have an idea what Trombeta is? Is it a brand, a type or what?
Looking around, I had always seen trombeta as being a black bakelight look and thought that was the difference, but then you had the shiny metal and labeled trombatta. Any ideas what each means?

I'm getting bad vibes about the drawings on this RV as one place shows what I had called trombeta and other as being what I had called Cole-Hershey? I don't like those conflicts, even though I know mistakes are part of life!
EDIT:
Asking my question prompted me to look!
Whether this is reliable or not is still open but this is what I get from Copilot:


Maybe a brand that has now become so common it is like "Crescent" in wrenchs of a specific type? Or Teflon tape which is no longer made by Teflon?

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Morich

Glad you popped up, Mr. K!
I was thinking of suggesting a look at your trek, but late to the show this morning!

Which brings a thought? I remember you having what I consider a Cole-Hershy look but labeled Trombeta!
So does anybody have an idea what Trombeta is? Is it a brand, a type or what?
Looking around, I had always seen trombeta as being a black bakelight look and thought that was the difference, but then you had the shiny metal and labeled trombatta. Any ideas what each means?

I'm getting bad vibes about the drawings on this RV as one place shows what I had called trombeta and other as being what I had called Cole-Hershey? I don't like those conflicts, even though I know mistakes are part of life!
EDIT:
Asking my question prompted me to look!
Whether this is reliable or not is still open but this is what I get from Copilot:
Attachment 189617

Maybe a brand that has now become so common it is like "Crescent" in wrenchs of a specific type? Or Teflon tape which is no longer made by Teflon?

Here is my Trombetta solenoid and relay. It was very interesting for me to watch it work in live with my voltmeter when I was designing my conversion.

At the end of the day, I did not want to break any WBGO feature including Aux Start. I didn't want to fool with adding new wiring inside that panel. At the time I was buying a Renogy 40amp DC2DC and it was just too large and heat was a concern. Other than the switch is my future pre-step foe Aux Start if ever needed, I decided to locate my Prion XS direct to the batteries as close as possible. I have dedicated 60amp fuse blocks for both House and Chassis batteries direct to the post.

I got my new crimp tool today; so soon I will finish the wiring to power up the Orion XS. But when I do so, it will be for the old AGMs. I will not add my new 300ah lithium until I am 100% certain everything does what I want. My vMax tanks are still good enough.

[creativepart]

DK, when your isolation solenoid is turned off can you still start your generator? On my RV's BIM (different from your solenoid), if I removed the chassis battery wiring I lost gen start capability.

Richard, Cole-Hersee is a brand name and Trombetta is also a brand name. Both make similar solenoids with different specs.

I reviewed my BIM wiring and compared it to the OP's Trombetta wiring and I see a major difference in how the alternator is wired to the BIM. This is why I thought the alternator wouldn't charge the chassis battery if the Trombetta was removed.

Here's my wiring:

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by creativepart

DK, when your isolation solenoid is turned off can you still start your generator? On my RV's BIM (different from your solenoid), if I removed the chassis battery wiring I lost gen start capability.

Richard, Cole-Hersee is a brand name and Trombetta is also a brand name. Both make similar solenoids with different specs.

I reviewed my BIM wiring and compared it to the OP's Trombetta wiring and I see a major difference in how the alternator is wired to the BIM. This is why I thought the alternator wouldn't charge the chassis battery if the Trombetta was removed.

Here's my wiring:

Yes, I can start my generator when the special switch I installed above is set to disable the trombetta. The generator will start regardless of that switch's position.

I think of the switch as Disabled / Enabled Trombetta versus On/OFF to help me remember which position while I go back and forth between AGM / Lithium.

When Disabled and engine is running batteries are not charging, but if Enabled the Trombetta the voltage of the batteries go to 14.0vdc. Note, I have not DC2DC functioning right now.

When I get the Orion XS functioning with the AGMs, I will disable the Trombetta via the switch. That Switch will always be disabled in the future even when I add the Lithiums.

I did the above so if I ever had a need for an emergency start, I would go outside on Chassis Electrical panel and Enable the Trombetta. Go back inside and use the Aux Start emergency switch like normal. Once engine is running I could go back outside and Disable the trombetta.

It works nicely thus far. My chassis battery is 6 years old, I may need this one day soon.

Note: I did not want to remove the Trombetta. I Decided to control it instead via Switch picture above via wire LR.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by creativepart

DK, when your isolation solenoid is turned off can you still start your generator? On my RV's BIM (different from your solenoid), if I removed the chassis battery wiring I lost gen start capability.

Richard, Cole-Hersee is a brand name and Trombetta is also a brand name. Both make similar solenoids with different specs.

I reviewed my BIM wiring and compared it to the OP's Trombetta wiring and I see a major difference in how the alternator is wired to the BIM. This is why I thought the alternator wouldn't charge the chassis battery if the Trombetta was removed.

Here's my wiring:

Okay, Looking closer, I see and agree with part of what you were saying! If we remove the solenoid or BIM and leave the cables and wiring not connected, it does kill lots of things like the generator as well as much of the 12VDC fuse panel!
But it is not the solenoid missing but the lack of putting the wires that were on the same post back together after we remove the solenoid, not the operation of the solenoid!
Kind of a fussy/picky detail and what we are missing the details when we speak of the change?
It is not the missing solenoid which would mess the chassis battery charging from the alternator as the solenoid is just a connection point along the patch.

If we remove the BIM or solenoid when wired as this drawing shows, we WILL cut several important connections. We lose the connections at the red marks, so we do then need to connect the various wires back as the green lines show to keep the paths working.
If we are willing to lose the boost start and set up a different way to charge the coach batteries while we drive, the solenoid is not needed! But we do need to tie the wires back together as this removes the connecting point in this wiring setup!

What DKoleman has done is to keep the two functions availbe by putting a switch in the control line LR. As long as LP is open by the switch, the solenoid can't connect coach to chassi battery and that removes the hazard of overheating the alternator!
But that overheating is a long term, slow process.
That makes it possible to have a switch and if we want to connect the two groups for short term charge or boost function, closing the switch puts the solenoid back into normal operation!
Note he used switches with red protective covers to avoid any unwanted switch movements like bumping, etc. !
Accidental switch left on and drive several hours might very likely overheat the alternator due to the lithium drawing so much current as they charge so rapidly!

Lots of small details and how to mod each RV needs a close look!