house batteries not charging from engine

[dsruth]

My house batteries are not charging from the engine alt. They do charge from shore power and Onan Gen but not from the engine driven Alt. I have checked power to the relays just behind the entry door and have no power.
This is a 2011 Via. Does anyone have the step by step procedure to trouble shoot this system or a detailed explanation of this system?
Thanks in advance for any help

[BobC]

1. Have you checked out your wiring diagram?

Wiring Diagrams

2. Although not a Via, here's another, current thread on this same issue:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ne-359353.html

[dsruth]

the wiring diagram I have is not clear. However, with the engine running I get 14v on one side of the solenoid and 12.6 v on the other side of the solenoid. But there seems to be no control voltage into the solenoid. I was told that that power comes from a switch on the dash (I am thinking the start boost switch) But there is no power to switch from ignition switch with engine running. Winnebago says there is a wiring block under drivers seat but that was installed by Mercedes and to take it to MB dealer. MB dealer says that's a Winnebago mod and we know nothing. So now what the hell do I do now? That is why I asked for step by step troubleshooting advise?

[Morich]

First step is to be CERTAIN that there is actually a problem as it is easy for battery voltage tests to confuse us and make us do lots of work that is not needed.
The way I test these:
I look at the coach battery voltage when the engine is not running and be 12.8 or less if the charging has been turned off for a few hours to avoid "surface charge" confusion and then it should go up a bunch when the engine alternator voltage of 13-14 volts is seen. This higher voltage is what charges the batteries but easy to confuse if we are trying to charge batteries which will not take and HOLD that charge. We often see 14 volts from the alternator but after the batteries settle for a few hours, they should show near 12.7-12.8 if they are good. It takes hours to fully charge a battery.
Don't let a bad battery panic you into a lot of work!

This is likely to be one of several things and many will jump to changing out parts like the solenoid first without testing but there are a number of other things to check if you want to save time and money!
I've made a snip of the parts most likely to be involved, with things to know marked in green as they help to spot what is important. The solenoid is called a "mode solenoid" and acts in two ways but it is also very likely to be buried behind some other parts like the breaker panel and may be a trek to reach, so doing some testing first may save the trauma of trying to reach it if it a problem with other parts like the switch or wiring!
Wiring diagrams are here:
Wiring Diagrams
Help with wire ID codes is here:
https://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram...ical_guide.pdf

On a PC, click the picture to get a better view.
Battery disconnect relay is alongside but not likely involved, so ignore it?
The mode solenoid is just a switch controlled by power signals, one from the dash switch which is often called a boost or aux switch that lets us do a "jump start" if the start battery is low by pushing this momentary switch.
The second way this solenoid operates is when we start the engine and that sounds like what you need.
For results, both methods have the same reaction, so to avoid digging the solenoid out, we can do a first step test!
You have chassis/start battery on the left and the cable should have red tape and coach battery on the right with yellow tape. You want to get the solenoid to connect them together!
When you locate the solenoid, listen or feel if you can reach it, while somebody pushes the dash switch. If you feel or hear it "clunk" we can say the solenoid is moving to close the contacts. With that knowledge, we can move to listen/feel the same when you start the engine.
If either of these do not sound like they work, a check of the wires KKG and LR is needed as the solenoid is not getting the signal in most cases. There are times when it does get the signal and is defective, so do be aware of that.
But if the solenoid is jumping and the left and right are still not connected, the contacts inside the solenoid are likely to be corroded and bad. This can be very common but I do not dig it out until I find I HAVE to!

[Morich]

Sorry, I now see you've moved beyond and need different info. Will do a look for that?

[Morich]

Maybe this drawing is what you need?
http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_175477.pdf
Sheet one notice detail BB up in top left corner?
Sheet two bottom about the middle is the detail showing the back side. note wire KKG and note 2?
From the wire ID chart, KKG is from the mode solenoid to battery bus bar!
Sounds like a place to check?

[dsruth]

does anyone know where on the system Winnebago taps into the system and is there a fuse inline?

[dsruth]

if the control voltage comes from the start booster switch on the dash panel then where does that switch get its power? I understand that when I hold the switch it connects the house batteries to start the engine. But when it is released how does it get power to provide control voltage to the solenoid thus allowing the solenoid to close and charge the batteries?

[Morich]

Maybe we are not speaking the same but what I think I see, shows the wire KKG going from the solenoid to the buss bar which is located behind the breakers behind the panel labeled "auto and coach circuit breakers". There are three models of that RV but the 25R model has these breakers in an outside compartment next to the batteries.
tricky thing to know is that there are some circuit on breakers that may be labeled for a different item so trusting the labels fully may not work?

[Morich]

Ok, crossed paths on the question. I see it as start /chassis battery comes from the buss bar, into the winding of the solenoid and out on LR to the switch and perhaps meets ground there? ?? which lets the solenoid pull up?
Some checking needed!!

[Morich]

Found this which may help explain:
http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_175527.pdf
Sheet 4 has the boost switch showing three circuits, LS, LR, and KE, with KE being the "run only power source" to the switch.
These wires should be labeled along the wire side, so if there is no power on KE, that might need to be chased to the far end? That end is also shown here on page 4:

[charlescho]

Originally Posted by Morich

Found this which may help explain:
http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/...ire_175527.pdf
Sheet 4 has the boost switch showing three circuits, LS, LR, and KE, with KE being the "run only power source" to the switch.
These wires should be labeled along the wire side, so if there is no power on KE, that might need to be chased to the far end? That end is also shown here on page 4:

Hi all, Morich has been helping me over on this thread (https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...-355355-2.html), which I really appreciate. He pointed me over to this thread and seems more appropriate for my situation. I am in the same situation as the OP. I've ruled out the solenoid being the problem. I'll have to chase down the KE wire.

[Morich]

This is where we get into lots more guessing on your year as Winnebago has gone to less real wiring diagrams on the newer year. This being a 2011 we get far more details and some will be the same for newer but some not and that is where the game can get really difficult.
On this Rv, the KE meets a buss bar under the driver's seat but it might or might not on different years and models as things change!!!!

And a person might look log and hard before thinking to look under a seat!!

[SmilingSimon]

have you checked the house battery cutoff relay or made sure it is enabled via a switch ?

there should be 2 relays or semiconductor equiv, 1 relay for chassis battery the another for house batteries.

use an ohm meter to see if voltage is going to them when engine is running, alternator is hard-wired to chassis battery NOT to house batteries.

when engine is running, the chassis relay has to be 'closed/connected' which THEN connects (provides voltage) TO & Thru the 'house' relay such that alternator voltage is reaching and charging those coach batteries.

when engine is running ALL batteries should be being charged, whereas ONLY the house is charged by converter from 110v (of course you can have a setup to charge the chassis via converter but that is not normal afaik) !!

[Morich]

Originally Posted by SmilingSimon

have you checked the house battery cutoff relay or made sure it is enabled via a switch ?

there should be 2 relays or semiconductor equiv, 1 relay for chassis battery the another for house batteries.

use an ohm meter to see if voltage is going to them when engine is running, alternator is hard-wired to chassis battery NOT to house batteries.

when engine is running, the chassis relay has to be 'closed/connected' which THEN connects (provides voltage) TO & Thru the 'house' relay such that alternator voltage is reaching and charging those coach batteries.

when engine is running ALL batteries should be being charged, whereas ONLY the house is charged by converter from 110v (of course you can have a setup to charge the chassis via converter but that is not normal afaik) !!

Since there are two different RV being discussed, one a 2011 Via and the other a 2020 Intent , which one are you referring to on your thinking? I think we do agree that all batteries SHOULD be charged but that is actually the main complaint in both cases. We have drawings for one which we can trace but not the other, so we are left guessing where the wires actually go at the other end???
If you have some drawings or information to show the differences in the two systems, that would be very helpful! We need the info on where wire KE gets power on the 2020 intent? We have info that shows it gets power from a buss bar under the seat on the other RV.

[dsruth]

So here is the update. Open Road comes out and trouble shoots. Winnebago tech support is on phone and the problem is traced to the electrical box under drivers seat which they inform me is a Mercedes Benz product and they don't work on that....great. Off to Sprinter dealer only to be informed that the box under the seat is a Winnebago mod/product. Back and forth.You get the picture. I finally get the two to start working together and cooperate and stop with the CYA, blame game and lets get the damn thing fixed. resulted in trace wire to circuit 15. rewired cable to circuit 15 relay. Batteries now charging from engine alt. It cost plenty to do that and there was a lot of screwing around to get there.In addition I believe that both Open Road and Winnebago could have been a lot more on top of their game as far as getting going in the right direction here. As an owner I should not have to be asking for which wire ,exactly are you talking about with photos going back and forth. This detailed info was not on the Winnebago web. Anyway after much aggravation the problem is resolved. Thank you to all of you for your support.

[charlescho]

That’s great you got your problem resolved.

I think I’ve got mine figured out too. Got called out for work out of the blue. I’ll report back tonight or tomorrow morning. But I am 90% certain I found the problem! :-D

Yeah, I know, the suspense is unbearable, right?

[Morich]

WELL?? Another one of those things that we get into and wonder how it ever happened!
If you look under the seat, does is even begin to look anything like what that one drawing shows for us to expect?
NEVER MIND! I assume you are just glad to get it fixed and I know how that goes. Maybe just go have coffee and forget it as best path! We are certainly left hanging at times and I know it is not just Winnebago.
We finally just decided to cut our losses and move on with a Ford Focus. I had never bought an extended warranty until that car and it did pay off somewhat as it got to a point that it could not be fixed but after spending $400 in deductibles for diagnostics at three different dealers over almost a year, we gave up and traded for a Honda! They finally got into blaming the tow wiring install as having cut or damaged "something" but they could not tell anybody what or where! We'll never know but it is now a car dealer's headache, not mine!

Sorry it worked out so bad but on the other hand it is working! YEA!
I know it won't make them lose any sleep, so I decided to just move on as it is not enough to even begin to suit over.

[dsruth]

Ok so here is more on this . I have come to find out that open road does not pull seats or do any under hood work. So beware before you call them. Winnebago is nice but you have to lean on them to provide detailed information. It’s under the drivers seat and it’s a yellow wire won’t cut it. It looks like a Spaghetti factory after a tornado under there and a whole bunch of yellow wires. Gee, thanks for the help. But after being an ******* I got people to come around and start taking an interest and get involved. Open Road has yet to return my calls. BUT nobody has been bashful about handing me a bill.

[charlescho]

Here was the solution/fix for my Intent 26M:

I uninstalled the "Batt Boost" switch. I identified all the pins on the wire harness with my multimeter (see attached photo). Turns out the switch was installed upside down from the factory!!! Luckily, the improper installation did not cause any damage because the pins did not make any contact with the harness.