Journey genset removal

[smlranger]

Since we are having some nice warm weather, I decided to start on my next service task; removal of the genset for extensive service (belt, hoses, T-stat, clean radiator, etc.), and replace my 2nd leaking heater core.

I will post pics and a description of the work over the next few days in hopes it might help anyone foolish enough to take on this job .

Today I got the front clip off. I had done a partial removal of the clip when I last replaced the heater core but this time, I completey removed it instead of just tilting it forward. This will give me full and easy access to the heater core box and lessen the amount of lift needed for the genset to clear by about 10 - 12".



Removal of the clip is not too bad. You have to remove a bunch of screws, the trim along the sides, disconnect lights, windshield washer, wiper arm at the wiper motor, and four large bolts in brackets toward the bottom of the clip. Once disconnected, a neighbor helped me lift it off and lean it up against a tree.


Tomorrow I plan to remove the leaking heater core and start prepping the genset for removal. I have put some cribbing under the front jacks and hope to get enough lift for clearance.

Stay tuned.

[Pusherman]

Gary, it looks pretty clean under there. We pulled one off recently on a customer coach, and found a lot of rust. The hardest part of the cap removal/reinstall is getting the wiper gears back in normal position. But you've done it before!

Keep us posted on your genny service progress.

[FIRE UP]

Hey SML,
Well Sir, it's too bad we're not closer to each other. I'd be there giving you an experienced hand in the gen stuff. You remember me tearing mine apart due to the "Code 33" condition back a few months ago don't ya? You know, wouldn't it be nice if you could "convert" your front end to have your gen on a tray? Probably be a serious amount of work, just so you could slide it out once in a while for various reasons. But, you know, if one thing goes bad, AFTER you've done all your work and put back in there, put the front of the coach back together and, you had to pull it back out, that would surely suck.

But, DO NOT hesitate to PM me if you've got any questions on any portion of the work you plan on doing. I'm assuming you're going to R&R that sensor while you're in there too, aren't you? When you get a chance, re-examine my thread and pics (that is if you haven't already) to see any possible detail on any portion of disassembly or parts etc. By the way, speaking of parts, I've got a parts manual with all the numbers etc if and when you get around to knowing which ones you want. Let me know if I can help.

Other than that advice, all I can say is, if you don't have one, get one of those battery operated little impact guns and some torx bits and I think a 10 mm socket. There's about a hundred of the 6mm x 1/2" long ones that hold on all the sheet metal. I'm sure you know all this but, on the back of the gen, is where all the hose clamps etc are located that hold all the fuel lines, battery cables etc. in place. Take pictures of their position if you think you might forget where they go. I know I do.

Oh, I almost forgot, the 110VAC junction block, in the front, left side top, is the one that I had trouble with. It's one of the only "Unprotected" electrical connection blocks in that entire generator interior. I mean, common Onan, how much would it have cost to put a nice, weatherpak fitting there so there would be no corrosion??

Anyway, again, don't hesitate to ask if you stumble on something. From what I see so far, I don't see any stumbling in the near future. Good luck.
Scott

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f101/7-5-...ns-136251.html

[smlranger]

Scott,

You could always plan to trip to Smith Mountain Lake so you can help me do the deed. I will even take you fishing .

Thanks for the tips. When I get the genset out, my plans are as follows:

1. replace fan belt
2. replace all coolant hoses
3. replace thermostat
4. replace temp sensor (the one you had problems with). I plan to heat that baby up a bit before I try to remove it.
4. remove radiator for cleaning/rodding out (if necessary). Since I will be taking the leaking heater core to a radiator shop so they can build me a new one, I may as well let them do a good cleaning on the Onan rad.
5. treat rust and repaint the generator shroud. Mine is grubby looking so I plan to give it a good coat of Onan green after I treat the rusted areas with SEM Rust Seal.

I will take some pics if anything I plan to take apart looks complicated. Today I will be confirming if I can raise the coach enough for clearance. If not, I will have to get some heavy jack stands.

Yesterday, I did ponder what it would take to install a heavy slide mechanism for the genset. If I was handy at welding I might try it. I did talk to a friend of mine who runs a collision repair business (he does RV work), and he said he could probably modify the front clip and make a door that would attach to the slide. But, I will take my chances and hope that once I've done this service, I will not have to do anything but the routine service items for another 10 yrs.

[Petro]

Gary;

Thanks for taking the time and effort to document your project. I am particularly interested in your replacement heater core. I know you have had 2 fail and I had to replace the one in my Chieftain. Its anyones guess how long the one in my Horizon will last. I will be following your project with great interest.

Don

[FIRE UP]

sml,
Good luck on all phases of the project. You can, give that sensor one initial attempt at removal with a good, quality purchase on it like a 6 point socket. Since it's a tapered thread, standard pipe stuff, it should break loose with not too much effort. But, if you feel you're exhibiting too much pressure to break it loose, then, your "heating" idea will be plan B. But, as I stated in my original thread about actually getting it out, I used a can of "Freeze" on it. Heat the surrounding thermostat housing area immediately around the threads and, then apply some quick "freeze" to the sensor and, that thing acted like it was in there with anti-seize. It just spun right out. Anyway, again, good luck and be careful under that big beast.
Scott

[smlranger]

OK, successful extraction of one leaking heater core and one 420 lb genset .

Heater core was easy. I had painted the pesky metal clips that hold the box together bright orange when I did this job in 2006. So, even though they fly everywhere when you release them, I found all of them.

As you can see from the pic, my leak seems to be in the core itself which is the same as the one I replaced in 2006.


Genset removal was not as bad as I anticipated. It takes some time to disconnect the wires and fuel lines. If you do this yourself, make sure to clamp the fuel lines before you remove them or you will get diesel in your armpit . The bolts were a bit harder and even though I had doused them all in PBlaster 3 times, I still had to heat a couple to bust them loose.

The next pic shows the motorcycle jack I got from Northern Tool positioned under the genset. Initially, I positioned it midline and slightly to the rear since I knew the diesel motor was at the rear of the box. However, when I would start to drop it, the thing would tip down at the rear so I eventually had to position the jack almost all the way toward the back to balance it on the jack platform.


The genset came out easily. I did have to raise the coach a bit after lowering the jack but I had plenty of clearance. Done for now. Will tear into the genset when I get time.

[Petro]

Gary;

Great pictures and removal well done. You do good work. If you aren't careful Pusherman may try and hire you. As for the heater core, if I remember correctly the Winnebago heater core is aluminum. I assume you will have a copper replacement made. I will be interested to know the cost for that and how well the replacement fits. I believe the cores fit in the box awful tight at least mine did.

Don

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by Petro

Gary;

Great pictures and removal well done. You do good work. If you aren't careful Pusherman may try and hire you. As for the heater core, if I remember correctly the Winnebago heater core is aluminum. I assume you will have a copper replacement made. I will be interested to know the cost for that and how well the replacement fits. I believe the cores fit in the box awful tight at least mine did.

Don

This core was a replacement from SCS Fridgett. Actually, it appears to be a copper core and it certainly has brass tanks soldered onto the core.

I am going to ask the guys at the radiator shop if they have any ideas why these things fail so quickly. I know the coolant we use in these diesel engines has a lot of chemicals (SCA's) so I wonder if the coolant is just eating the core . You would think the aluminum core in the engine radiator would fail before a copper core would fail. Anyway, I didn't pay much attention in my chemistry class so I am at a loss to explain two core failures from 2002 - 2009.

[stuhly]

While you have it apart be sure to replace the plastic overflow tank. I just had to pull my 7.5 out to change the tank due to a crack in the bottom. It is impossible to get out without dropping the unit.

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by stuhly

While you have it apart be sure to replace the plastic overflow tank. I just had to pull my 7.5 out to change the tank due to a crack in the bottom. It is impossible to get out without dropping the unit.

Thanks for the tip. That was not on my list but now it will be.

[Pusherman]

Originally Posted by Petro

Gary;

Great pictures and removal well done. You do good work. If you aren't careful Pusherman may try and hire you. As for the heater core, if I remember correctly the Winnebago heater core is aluminum. I assume you will have a copper replacement made. I will be interested to know the cost for that and how well the replacement fits. I believe the cores fit in the box awful tight at least mine did.

Don

He has a standing offer for a nice cushy (you call this cushy work?) retirement job when he's ready

[1ciderdog]

SMLRANGER - Would you have run into removal problems if you had not removed the front cap? I may need to pull my generator and have been toying with the thought of lifting the front of the RV in order to drop the generator on a transmission or motorcycle jack. Looking at your photos the transmission jack may not provide enough lift if I raise the motorhome and don't remove the front cap. Thoughts?

[Mr_D]

WOW, am I ever glad both our Dutch Stars have had the slide out trays! No way would I want to disassemble the front cap to service the gen set.

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by 1ciderdog

SMLRANGER - Would you have run into removal problems if you had not removed the front cap? I may need to pull my generator and have been toying with the thought of lifting the front of the RV in order to drop the generator on a transmission or motorcycle jack. Looking at your photos the transmission jack may not provide enough lift if I raise the motorhome and don't remove the front cap. Thoughts?

Bob, my original plan was to remove the genset without front clip removal. However, it would require lifting the motorhome more, probably an additional 10 - 12 inches. Since I decided to also replace the leaking heater core, I just went ahead and removed the clip.

Once you remove the clip and then remove the small air reservoir behind the clip, I was able to lift the coach very little to remove the genset. I did place some 6" x 6" cribbing under the jacks. The motorcycle jack has a 17" lift max.

If you left the clip on, I think you would still be able to do it with some careful measurments.

Removal of the clip is really not bad. I supported it with the motorcycle jack and had it disconnected in about 30". I only needed a neighbor's help to lift it and set it aside.

[FIRE UP]

You know,
When we purchased our rig, the '04 Itasca Horizon, it came with the slide out generator. Purchasing a Diesel rig was all new to us and there was lots of components, benefits, thoughts, ideas and much more to comprehend as we delved into the "Diesel Pusher" world. We both thought, "Man, are we in the big leagues now!" And of course, as us usual, items came up that needed maintenance and that was to be expected.

Well, when our generator started the "Code 33" back on our trip in the summer, I didn't know it was going to be a major project to remedy it. But, I also really didn't realize the importance and serious CONVENIENCE of having that generator on a slide out tray. Not knowing anything about them, I just dove into tearing it apart to do the repairs.

So, I certainly don't envy Gary and those others that have the added work of "removing" the gen prior to doing any surgery on it. In the future, it may or may not be a deal breaker if and when we are looking for another coach but, I'll sure try and make sure it's one of the features on a future coach.

These generators don't require service or, surgery that often but, even having to do it "ONE TIME" is enough to really realize the true benefit.
Scott

[1ciderdog]

smlranger,
Thanks for the information. I'm traveling and the gen set has quit working. After looking at the information on the internet it appears to be the sensor near the thermostat. I'll do more thinking in the time it takes me to get home where I'll have the opportunity to pull the gen set (if I need to)

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by 1ciderdog

smlranger,
Thanks for the information. I'm traveling and the gen set has quit working. After looking at the information on the internet it appears to be the sensor near the thermostat. I'll do more thinking in the time it takes me to get home where I'll have the opportunity to pull the gen set (if I need to)

You will have to pull it to remove the shroud so you can get to that pesky sensor. My local Cummins-Onan shop estimated 5 - 6 hours labor minimum to R & R the genset, which included only the labor to replace the drive belt and the hoses. At their shop rate, that translates to about $750 in labor alone. I wanted to save the $$$ for other stuff and, after all as FireUp has indicated, this is just another 'learning experience.'

[smlranger]

Heater core update:

I got a PM from another member who has same coach as mine, same year. He has also had 2 core failures. His last replacement core was a new and different design from the company that bought some of SCS' assets. The initial problem was a chemical reaction between the copper/brass core and tanks and another metal in the removable nipples. The new core is all copper and the nipples are part of a continuous copper tube that winds its way through the core. Apparently, the core is a bit shorter since the original core could not be removed or installed without first removing at least one of the threaded nipples. This member installed this new core in 2008 and it is still doing fine.

I did talk to the company that is now making the cores for Winnebago, Victory Climate Systems in Fort Worth, TX. They confirmed it is not the same as what I had in the coach. So, I have one on order from Lichtsinn in Forest City. $191.10 for the new one.

[smlranger]

Update:

Removed the genset cover today. There is a lot of rust on the panels so they will get derusted and repainted.

If you've never seen the inside of one of these things, here is the naked truth:


So, on first inspection, the hoses look very good as does the single belt on this thing. I'm asking myself if I have been foolish pulling it. However, on closer inspection, I find two issues of concern.

One is the hose going from the filler neck to the radiator is too long and whomever assembled the thing, just left it too long, stuffed it inside causing it to kink badly. That explains why when I have done a cooling system flush and refill, it was always so difficult to refill it.


A second issue (sorry no pic) was the bottom radiator hose was never fully inserted onto the nipple and the cheap crimped hose clamp was not fully on the hose. There was evidence of a slow leak of coolant at this connection.

At this point, I am glad I dropped this beast.