New Member of the leaking windshield club

[Pusherman]

Originally Posted by Skeetobite

We had water pouring in our windshield when driving in the rain for the first time.

Here's why, a horrible bedding and installation at the factory. I couldn't believe there was next to no caulk under the windshield!



Fortunately, I caught it early and made them re-bed the windshield under warranty.

Skeetobite, You nailed it! Bad Sealant job.

For those reading this post in the Winnebago forum, please note this is a Fleetwood product.

[Pusherman]

I too had the dreaded Winnebago leaking windshield issue on my 07 Journey due to a rusted windshield frame. I pulled both windshields out several years back as I started to see water run down the inside of the glass.

I have a great glass guy. He has replaced many windshields in Winnebago's in my (prior) shop due to cracked glass, and then when removed, discovering rusted windshield frames. We did the rust repair. He replaced the glass.

In my case, we knew that once I saw the water running down the inside of the windshield, it was the Dreaded Windshield Rusted Frame issue. We were lucky in that when he pulled both windshields, neither broke. We then repaired the rusted frame, ground it down, primed it with a 2-part epoxy primer, and then re-installed the windshields.

I have posted prior that I had the unfortunate luck of having a rock hit my windshield a little over a year ago, cracking the glass. Pulled the glass, inspected the frame, and it was perfect. No rust. Replaced the glass and on with life.

Since our shop has repaired several Winnies with the Dreaded Windshield Rust issue, I will try to offer my opinion on why it happens. But first, I must say, that the design of the Winnie windshield glass/frame system offers greater strength than many of the competitors. Just today there is a post on an owner's windshield popping out on another owner's forum thread.

My opinion: Winnie preps the frames and powder coats most of its metal. Problem with powder coating, is if moisture gets behind it, it begins to rust. Secondly, the manufacturing process is 1) prep metal, 2) tack weld L-brackets on bottom of frame to hold glass. Finished metal is permeated by the tack weld process (nor do I think the L-bracket is properly finished) causing moisture to get behind it, and causes rust. The windshield is then installed with a urethane bead which forms a strong, firm bond between the glass and the metal. The top of the windshield glass has a lip which holds moisture under the T-molding (which is not designed to keep moisture out) and provides a channel for moisture to be retained next to the metal. If the metal prep fails, which most will over time, rust will form.

I can think of design changes which may have helped, but I will not elaborate on my guesses on re-engineering.

My recommendation is that if you do see leaks on the inside of the glass, or are seeing metal flakes on the dash, it's most likely due to a rusted windshield frame. Be prepared to take it to a shop which can do the metal work, and works with a good glass company to remove and replace the glass. Do your research on the best way to remove the rust and prep the metal. Many have used POR-15, which I think is a good product. A urethane primer under the urethane sealant system to the glass is a good idea. Do your research.

A point of maintenance may be to pull the T-moldings off every several years to inspect for rust underneath them, and at a minimum, clean the grime under them which will hold in moisture. Before you do this, contact a glass shop or other supplier who can get you new moldings if for some reason they are damaged, or shrink when/after you remove them. This way you may be able to do preemptive maintenance which may hold for a couple more years before having to do the 'Full Monty' rust repair with glass removal.

The reason for seeing cracked glass when the rust occurs, is that the rust expands on the frame, causing a pressure point on the glass, which cracks the glass. The system is designed to be a firm bond between the glass and frame, making a strong front end (this is a good thing). The rust can cause the glass to break, with no apparent rock hit.

I know this is a controversial issue. Trying to help based on my personal experience.

[Jim_HiTek]

Originally Posted by RTegarini

I had the work done locally and was a three-step process. First, the glass company pulled the windshield glass. Second, the motorhome was sent to a auto body repair faculty that did all the metal grinding, cut out and replaced sections the were too far gone, primered and painted. Last, it went back to the glass shop for installation of new glass.

I'm no expert on why the failures, but think it is in part due to the way Winnebago installs and seals the windshields. I'm told that the Winnebago-approved windshield sealant drys into a hard, crystal-like sealant, with no give once dry. (Which is why the glass frequently gets broken trying to remove it.) I think rough highways, pulling into / out of driveways, etc., eventually puts cracks into the sealant. Add in the factor that the windshield molding, called Reveal molding, doesn't actually seal to anything, allowing water get behind it and then through the cracked sealant. Additionally, I'm told that there is no real provision for the water that does get behind the Reveal molding to drain out, so it sits and rusts out the windshield frame. -RT

Thanks for that helpful explanation.

[litewave]

While you guys have your ladders out, be sure and inspect your front and back End Cap sealant for integrity. Also check the roof to side aluminum rail seal from front to back and on both sides of your rig.

[georgelesley]

Well this thread has convinced me to take more action on my club membership. Sealing the front cap/roof joint, the clearance lites, drilling a small hole in the lenses, and sealing the front cap trim where the gutter ends and runs onto it seems to have for now fixed the problem. But I have done nothing with the rubber strip above the windshield.

My fix will be to use the black tape recommended by RT above and also put the flexible guttering above that. I have no doubt we have frame rusting starting behind the rubber, so time to be proactive.

How does one pull the rubber trim strip at the top of the windshield off and reinstall?

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by georgelesley

Well this thread has convinced me to take more action on my club membership. Sealing the front cap/roof joint, the clearance lites, drilling a small hole in the lenses, and sealing the front cap trim where the gutter ends and runs onto it seems to have for now fixed the problem. But I have done nothing with the rubber strip above the windshield.

My fix will be to use the black tape recommended by RT above and also put the flexible guttering above that. I have no doubt we have frame rusting starting behind the rubber, so time to be proactive.

How does one pull the rubber trim strip at the top of the windshield off and reinstall?

The rubber trim just pulls off. It has a protrusion on the back that fits into a plastic channel that is stuck to the steel frame with double stick tape. If you have gotten grime/water behind the rubber trim, the channel might release when you pull the rubber off. If so, clean it up, apply new tape and stick it back on.

Don (Pusherman) has nailed it. I owned a 2002 Journey for 8 years and had a passenger side glass break due to windshield frame rust. I had a trusted body shop work with Guardian Glass to fix mine. When they were done, I removed the upper rubber trim and completely filled the void between the fiberglass cap and the windshield with proflex caulk/sealant. Once it cured I re-installed the rubber trim. My thinking was if I could fill that void, it would be less likely to fill up with dirt and moisture. Four years after the fix, we traded the coach (in 2013). I spoke last fall to the fellow who bought the coach and he said he was having no trouble with the windshields.

IMO, a better design for Winnebago would have been to finish the fiberglass surrounding the windshield better and to have it fit so that it left a 1/2 inch gap around the perimeter of the glass. Then, seal the windshield with urethane sealant and fill the 1/2 gap with something like Sikaflex. That would seal everything and keep water from getting to the frame.

[HD4Mark]

Originally Posted by georgelesley

How does one pull the rubber trim strip at the top of the windshield off and reinstall?

I'm also in the club. If the rubber strip on yours is like ours, its easy. You may have to remove the trim pieces on each side of the wind shield first. Just grab onto the strip at the end and slowly but firmly pull it away. It just pops into a plastic strip behind it. To reinstall I just got it started and tapped it back in with my fist. A couple of spots required light taps with a rubber mallet.

Once removed I could see some rust between the plastic "retainer" strip and the windshield. I cleaned it out best I could and dried it out. Next I bought 3M windshield sealer in a caulk gun tube from and auto parts store and filled in as much of the gap possible. That lasted a for a couple of years. Then I got a small leak again in about the same spot. A small bead of Lexan sealant has stopped that for another couple of years. Now it just started again.

I have read that sometimes the marker lights above the windshield may leak. To test where it came from I just ran a garden hose from the lowest suspect spot to the highest. It started leaking right at the top of the windshield.

The passenger side never leaked so of course that one was the one that cracked and was replaced no charge by our full glass coverage.

[Americanrascal]

I thought my windshield or marker/clearance lights were leaking on our 2016 Adventurer 38Q when we found the dreaded puddle of water on the dash in front of the passenger seat.

The first time in the shop they were convinced it was the clearance lights. That wasn't the problem and the leak continued. After a second round of tests at another service shop (sonic- not seal tech test method the second time) they found the seal between the front cab cap and the fiberglass roof was leaking like a sieve. On the second visit visit the service center did the sonic test, found the joint leak, cut out the old sealant and put a very heavy bead (about 1 1/2 inch thick) on and into the joint.

I climbed up to the roof to check the work and it is not a pretty seal, but no one is driving by looking at the beauty of the roof of the rig.

The bottom line is it worked well and no more leaks!

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by Americanrascal

I thought my windshield or marker/clearance lights were leaking on our 2016 Adventurer 38Q when we found the dreaded puddle of water on the dash in front of the passenger seat.

The first time in the shop they were convinced it was the clearance lights. That wasn't the problem and the leak continued. After a second round of tests at another service shop (sonic- not seal tech test method the second time) they found the seal between the front cab cap and the fiberglass roof was leaking like a sieve. On the second visit visit the service center did the sonic test, found the joint leak, cut out the old sealant and put a very heavy bead (about 1 1/2 inch thick) on and into the joint.

I climbed up to the roof to check the work and it is not a pretty seal, but no one is driving by looking at the beauty of the roof of the rig.

The bottom line is it worked well and no more leaks!

The front/rear cap-to-roof joint on a Winnebago is the perfect place for 4" Eternabond tape. It looks fine and is a permanment worry-free fix.

[jpmihalk]

Glad to know it wasn't just us. We bought our 98 Itasca Sunflyer four years ago and within one month it developed a crack in the driver's side windshield that expanded and we had it replaced. While it was being replaced, it was found that the frame around it had rusted out (mostly the center post frame near the bottom) and looking at the other glass on the passenger side, you could easily pull up the rubber and see the frame was rusted through. Ours was also about a $3800 fix when it was all said and done to pull the glass, repair the frame and replace the glass with new. We had to take it to a specialized RV repair shop to do the work and they said this is very common for the Winnies.


We also had to do the silicone and drill routine on the marker lights.


We no longer have the Itasca, but at least the next owner will have a pretty well repaired unit.

[HD4Mark]

So what do you think the chances are Winnebago still does the windshields the same way after twenty years or so of leaking.

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by HD4Mark

So what do you think the chances are Winnebago still does the windshields the same way after twenty years or so of leaking.

Good question, although I don't seem to read of this particular issue with the newer models. Guess their new Achilles heel is the Schwintek slide issue.

From what I can see from the outside of the newer Tours/Grand Tours, it appears the windshield is set in the fiberglass cap. Like my CC which has a steel frame all around the windshield area, the fiberglass wraps around it and the windshield is set in the fiberglass opening and doesn't seem to touch the steel at any point.

[ezdavie]

Ricardo,

Why not eliminate the Reveal Moulding - you end up covering it up anyway - or does it serve some other purpose.

[RTegarini]

Originally Posted by ezdavie

Ricardo,

Why not eliminate the Reveal Moulding - you end up covering it up anyway - or does it serve some other purpose.

At least in my case, I have not covered up all the Reveal molding, only the section that runs across the windshield. That leaves the sides, bottom and down the center-glass showing the Reveal molding. If I had a really steady hand and could lay down a nice, straight section of tape, I'd say you have a great idea. Having someone who deals professionally with striping and decals might be worth the cost, and maybe change it out every few years. I'd leave the Reveal molding in place but the tape would seal the molding and prevent water getting past it.

I find it disappointing that with all the Winnebago engineering and financial resources, Winnebago can't come up with a solution. Even more disappointing is that they don't even admit there is a problem... a 14-plus model year problem. -RT

[georgelesley]

Originally Posted by HD4Mark

I'm also in the club. If the rubber strip on yours is like ours, its easy. You may have to remove the trim pieces on each side of the wind shield first. Just grab onto the strip at the end and slowly but firmly pull it away. It just pops into a plastic strip behind it. To reinstall I just got it started and tapped it back in with my fist. A couple of spots required light taps with a rubber mallet.

Once removed I could see some rust between the plastic "retainer" strip and the windshield. I cleaned it out best I could and dried it out. Next I bought 3M windshield sealer in a caulk gun tube from and auto parts store and filled in as much of the gap possible. That lasted a for a couple of years. Then I got a small leak again in about the same spot. A small bead of Lexan sealant has stopped that for another couple of years. Now it just started again.

I have read that sometimes the marker lights above the windshield may leak. To test where it came from I just ran a garden hose from the lowest suspect spot to the highest. It started leaking right at the top of the windshield.

The passenger side never leaked so of course that one was the one that cracked and was replaced no charge by our full glass coverage.

Anyone have any idea how to remove the vertical trim pieces that cover the very end of the black rubber at the top of the windshield?

[atodalen]

Originally Posted by georgelesley

Anyone have any idea how to remove the vertical trim pieces that cover the very end of the black rubber at the top of the windshield?

If you're talking about the pieces that run from the bottom of the windshield to the top, then there will probably be nuts that need to be removed inside the coach. You'll need to remove the trim inside the coach to access them. On our older unit that piece looks to be longer than yours and there was also a nut that had to be accessed from under the hood.

Al

[georgelesley]

Thanks!

[HD4Mark]

Originally Posted by georgelesley

Anyone have any idea how to remove the vertical trim pieces that cover the very end of the black rubber at the top of the windshield?

Your coach is ten years newer than ours but in our case there are three screws right through the front that hold them on. Like many others on our coach they are not stainless and rusted so I replaced them with stainless.

The panels do not appear to hold the molding in place, just cover the ends up.

[Rick carson]

I used black goriila tape after several tries to stop mine from leaking. No more leak. I think it was 3 inch it covered just a little below and above the factory seal. You hardly notice it unless you look specifically at it.

[NoMoreAZ]

Originally Posted by smlranger

The front/rear cap-to-roof joint on a Winnebago is the perfect place for 4" Eternabond tape. It looks fine and is a permanment worry-free fix.

Gary,

Did you go all the way down the roof radius or just on the horizontal portion of the roof?