Removing old sealant from roof radius?

[Upinsmoke]

Jim, thanks! I read almost the entire blog - great info, links and very detailed. Probably most important is that you continue to update the various projects. It helps to know when something didn't quite work out or needs to be updated. Thanks again.

[Jim_HiTek]

Originally Posted by Upinsmoke

Jim, thanks! I read almost the entire blog - great info, links and very detailed. Probably most important is that you continue to update the various projects. It helps to know when something didn't quite work out or needs to be updated. Thanks again.

You are very welcome. I enjoy writing it. Coincidentally, I just today added some update info to this article and look forward to testing it next week: J1587 Heavy Vehicle OBD II

I've gotten the equipment and software app necessary to check my engine & tranni's health...at least I hope so. Don't know if it works yet. Links to all the products I'm using. Wasn't all that expensive either.

[Wetstuff]

Ups... It is just like Jim's - 'cept white. He may have taken his drip edge all the way down; I figgered gravity would take over once the top line was protected. This gutter has a nice wide tape; it seems very secure.

(sorry for not showing up in my Sunday best - it was a long, wet winter)

Jim

[TJFogelberg]

Our newer 31D ('17) hasn't needed roof/sealant attention yet, but I thought I 'd chime in and say our former Lazy Daze which we had for 4 years had it's roof sealed with the Eternabond Tape. That method forms a very durable seal that I imagine could easily last 10 years without touching it. They just went over the old factory sealant all around the perimeter of the roof and it looked fine. I plan to do the same when the time comes for my 31D. The Lazy Daze owners forum (which anyone can join) would have extensive info on how to prep and install Eternabond since so many of the LD owners use it.

[Jim_HiTek]

Originally Posted by Wetstuff

Ups... It is just like Jim's - 'cept white. He may have taken his drip edge all the way down; I figgered gravity would take over once the top line was protected. This gutter has a nice wide tape; it seems very secure.

(sorry for not showing up in my Sunday best - it was a long, wet winter)

Jim

I only went down around 6" along the side of each window. Like you, I figured it was unnecessary to run the gutter all the way down the side of the window frame. Letting gravity do it's job as you say.

[RSteele]

I have done 2 Winnebago Fiberglass roofs on dp’s, first was a 36’ Journey and then my current 39’ Vectra. I used 3m 4200uv and it has held up well for 5 years, it comes in white and black and can be ordered from Amazon. I had a lot of trouble trying to find the sealant Winnebago recommended. A razor knife worked best, the painters tool just wasn’t sharp enough though I really wanted it to work. The painters tool does work for pulling the sealant just not cutting it for me anyway. Be careful not to slip the fiberglass is pretty thin and the razor knife can cut through the roof if you slip, been there. Pull what you can out, cut a little pull a little. Remove all you can, prep before you recaulk. I used painters tape on the gutter and roof because caulking is messy and I’m no artist. I did the work laying on the roof. Cut the caulk tube at a 45 and keep the hole small, you can always go slower or cut the tip more. If you make the hole too big to start a lot will come out and you will make a bigger mess. I used acetone to prep the surfaces before re applying the caulk. Definitely one of the worst maintenance jobs I have preformed right up there with removing the cooling stack to replace the fan hub bearing on the Cat C-7 in the Journey.

[rgvtexan]

Keep the Roof maintenance up. Mine has been in the shop almost 2 months.

Lost the roof April 3 in Sweetwater TX. It was resealed and painted last year, checked fine, before we left on the 2nd. Got caught with a microburst or something. The RV is in N TX, and we are back in the RGV. Maybe next week.

[FIRE UP]

Well Gang,
I myself don't plan on "taping" any roof down and making an outstanding looking coach look like it's taped together. If anyone cares, take a look at this video that is put on by Lichtsinn RV. They have monthly and or frequent instructional videos and classes on lots of RV maintenance. The one below, specifically targets the "Roof Cove Maintenance" for Winnebago. Lichtsinn is only a couple of blocks from the Winnebago plant and, they get all their instructions and tech specs, directly from Winnebago.

Many have condemned the use of "Silicone" for this application. Well, if you take a look at the video, you'll see what WINNEBAGO recommends for FULL BODY PAINTED and, non full body painted rigs, for that gutter operation.
Scott

https://www.lichtsinn.com/webcast-ar...maintenance-rv

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Jim_HiTek

Here's a profile of the extruded aluminum channel that Winnie uses, circa 2002.



It shows the weep holes are covered by the roofing so there's not much you'd need do to them unless your roof has pulled up and out of the channel.

It was the potential for repeated roof work that caused me to use Eternabond tape along the roof edges instead of caulking. Some prefer the caulking, but I'd rather not mess with it. My roof had the silicone type caulking come loose and was hanging down along the side wall in a few places when I noticed it hanging down over the main door. Kind of hard to miss. I was in Mexico at the time. Most pieces were only 6" long but one was a 4 foot long strip. That was after 1 year of ownership...I purchased in '16. So where I could, I gently pulled on it. Where it wouldn't come off for me, I just went ahead and had it covered with the Ebond tape as it was such a thin bead. That was two years ago and the Ebond is still looking fine. Roof edge article...

Hope the work goes well!

Great diagram. It shows, clearly, why the sealant fails. Not enough. Once it fails dirt and other stuff get into the channel. I have cleaned a bunch of junk out when prepping. But, when I caulk I force it down deep into the channel to fill as much of the void as I can.
Instead of Ebond tape I will be using Helicopter tape because it is clear. I have it but I have not gotten around to the job yet.
The coach nose to roof fitting was not done well out of the factory. I have a 1/2" or better gap along the roof seem. I tried many methods of sealing this up but, over time, they all failed. My last try was the helicopter tape. Worked like a champ and has lasted for several years now.
Just a different way to skin a cat.

[rgvtexan]

Rick

helicopter tape

Do you have a link to a reseller?

[Jim_HiTek]

Fireup: After looking at your pictures, I would not want to spend what appears to be many hours removing and reapplying that much caulking. Yikes what a job.

My roof gutter edge seems to have a different profile then that in the pictures, the gutter section isn't as pronounced as yours. Mine is much more suited to application of tape. Which looks fine on my rig. Can't even tell it's there from the ground...and no maintenance. If it's like my other applications of Ebond tape on my two different rigs, it'll be fine for 10 years or more.

As far as the silicone goes, Winnebago has both recommended it for roof edging and condemned it. And authorized dealers have done the same. What Winnie says about it is that the caulking industry changes their formulas quite a bit and so to stay ahead of it, they recommend that owners contact Winnie's factory service and ask them what the recommended caulkings are for their VIN #. What they will provide is only good for that moment in time.

There was even a time when the Winnie factory installed Ebond to hold the roof on. That was after they made a couple thousand roofs just slightly too narrow.

[Wetstuff]

"Helicopter Tape" ...I don't see the reference now, but many of those 'leading edge' tapes are for abrasion. The leading edge of a tail on many planes get sandblasted by the prop ...the wing, by hail, bugs, etc.

Typically, anything 'clear' is vulnerable to UV, including the adhesive. I have used 3M tape and I expect you would be up for replacement in a couple/few of years if based south of 40th parallel north.

Given the potential for sidewall delamination (= devaluation) from top leaks, cosmetics are well down my list ...tho' I have an old coach.



Jim

[Phil-T]

My edge matches the WBGO diagram posted and looks exactly like fireup's photos. The caulkling I pulled out is silcone, no doubt. If I were to use tape, I would have to paint it to match the full body paint colors (two of them the length of the coach. For now, I am "patching the bad spots with a clear sealant (silcome based) from Amazon, as referenced in the video posted here. I did some 2 days ago, got back up there today and it looks good and is a solid seal.

[al1florida]

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

Well Gang,
I myself don't plan on "taping" any roof down and making an outstanding looking coach look like it's taped together. If anyone cares, take a look at this video that is put on by Lichtsinn RV. They have monthly and or frequent instructional videos and classes on lots of RV maintenance. The one below, specifically targets the "Roof Cove Maintenance" for Winnebago. Lichtsinn is only a couple of blocks from the Winnebago plant and, they get all their instructions and tech specs, directly from Winnebago.

Many have condemned the use of "Silicone" for this application. Well, if you take a look at the video, you'll see what WINNEBAGO recommends for FULL BODY PAINTED and, non full body painted rigs, for that gutter operation.
Scott

https://www.lichtsinn.com/webcast-ar...maintenance-rv

Fire-Up, For the 4 pictures attached would you describe what we are looking at?

I have a guesstimate for: Photo 1: White caulking being removed. I see what look like a lot of residue left after the white was removed. If that residue was the original sealant applied by Winnebago then the residue is probably silicone. So it wouldn't have mattered what the white stuff was made of. Even if it was the Winnie approved sealant it wouldn't have adhered to the silicone residue.

As far as silicone goes. My gripe is the resealing process if it is needed. Such a huge pain to get all the old residue off. If you don't get it all off not even new silicone will adhere.

For what it is worth, I just resealed my roof radius. It took me well over 3 hours per side to scrape all the residue out of the grove. I only needed to do about 60% of each side. Some of the sealant was still intact and look good.

I used a razor window decal scraper where I could. However in the grove or gap, I use a small and large screwdrivers with the edges (tip and sides) squared off so they were all sharp. Once I got out what I could, I used rags wrapped around the screwdriver and dipped in acetone and scraped the residue more. Then I went back and scrapped with just the screwdrivers.

Once I got all the old residue off, I resealed with non-sag Dicor. I squeezed the Dicor down into the bottom of the grove or gap.

Specifically I did not use a silicone product because of what I just went though to get the old silicone off.

This is not the 1st or even the 5th time I have had to deal with getting old silicone off. A real pain to get it off.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by al1florida

Fire-Up, For the 4 pictures attached would you describe what we are looking at?

I have a guesstimate for: Photo 1: White caulking being removed. I see what look like a lot of residue left after the white was removed. If that residue was the original sealant applied by Winnebago then the residue is probably silicone. So it wouldn't have mattered what the white stuff was made of. Even if it was the Winnie approved sealant it wouldn't have adhered to the silicone residue.

As far as silicone goes. My gripe is the resealing process if it is needed. Such a huge pain to get all the old residue off. If you don't get it all off not even new silicone will adhere.

For what it is worth, I just resealed my roof radius. It took me well over 3 hours per side to scrape all the residue out of the grove. I only needed to do about 60% of each side. Some of the sealant was still intact and look good.

I used a razor window decal scraper where I could. However in the grove or gap, I use a small and large screwdrivers with the edges (tip and sides) squared off so they were all sharp. Once I got out what I could, I used rags wrapped around the screwdriver and dipped in acetone and scraped the residue more. Then I went back and scrapped with just the screwdrivers.

Once I got all the old residue off, I resealed with non-sag Dicor. I squeezed the Dicor down into the bottom of the grove or gap.

Specifically I did not use a silicone product because of what I just went though to get the old silicone off.

This is not the 1st or even the 5th time I have had to deal with getting old silicone off. A real pain to get it off.

Hey Al,
Well, yep, the first one is showing the removal of the ORIGINAL roof to gutter sealant/adhesive. I know for a fact it's original because, I knew the previous owners and, neither of them could their shoes, much less get up there and do any form of hi-tech maintenance. The coach is 15 years old and, has for the most part, been stored INDOORS when not in use. That helps ANY sealant/caulk prolong its life, I don't care what type or brand it is.

If a coach is consistently sustaining full sun, 24/7/365, then any and all sealants, caulks and adhesives that are subject to that kind of treatment, will have a fairly shorter life span. So, again, what you're seeing was about 13 year old sealant/adhesive from the factory. Now, was is Silicone, nope, not at all. It has a much stouter body density than Silicone does. Even old Silicone, that's been subjected to years of sun, will still have a rubber hose feeling to it. This was closer to rubberized caulk type feeling.

The process I used was the same as many, many of you have done. It's a matter of getting all the old stuff out. It doesn't matter what you use, a razor blade, a PLASTIC razor blade, screw drivers, steel scrapers, a D-9 dozer, it doesn't matter. All that matter is that YOU DO get all the old stuff out. I did so. Then, when it came time for prep, the groove between the two components got wiped down with,

1. Lacquer Thinner
2. Acetone
3. Straight Alcohol

And, for the last one, the alcohol, I'd wrap a screwdriver with the rag, soak it and then force it in between the two and wipe. Change the rag, soak, wipe, repeat, for several times.

Now, to you and Jim,
Once it was as close to surgically clean as possible, I cut the tip off the Silicone tube for about a 1/8" bead. I then jammed that tip down in between the two components and, started squeezing the trigger. As the Silicone appeared, I'd start moving. I did that for the full length I needed to go, about 5' total, from the front cap edge, on both sides of the coach. Then, just because I wanted to, I "fingered" the Silicone to the shape I wanted. Jim, that is why it looks as broad as it does. It's simply spread out a tiny bit more than it needs to be. No biggie.

That was at least 2.5 years ago. And, it's holding as good today as it did when I first did that job. If a person does not want to use Silicone, even the 100% UV resistant stuff like Winne recommends in Lichtinn's video, then don't.
Scott

[al1florida]

Fire Up,
Thanks for the extra detail. Really helps understand what we are looking at and the process to replace the sealant.

[Upinsmoke]

As the OP I wanted to give an update, and ask for another opinion of which, (thankfully) there appears to be no shortage. Appreciate all of the helpful hints in all of their various forms.

So as I indicated previously, I have completed one side of the roof radius, and looks aside, believe it to be water tight for now. Hopefully, years!

I'm now on to the second (passenger) side, and it really needed the repair. The fiberglass pushed way in with large crack/opening in the old sealant. I've finished the first 10' following the same procedure - cutting, picking, coaxing as much of the old sealant out as possible, cleaning the track (denatured alcohol because it's what I have) and then resealing - AND my second bead looks better. Not pro, but better.

Here's the question, I'm at a point where the sealant is still in tact and doesn't readily pull out. So, do I leave it as is until I find separation further down the line, or go ahead and work to get the old out and reseal. I hate to mess with something that's not broken, but understand the logic of getting all new sealant all at one time.

So, what say ye?

[al1florida]

Originally Posted by Upinsmoke

As the OP I wanted to give an update, and ask for another opinion of which, (thankfully) there appears to be no shortage. Appreciate all of the helpful hints in all of their various forms.

So as I indicated previously, I have completed one side of the roof radius, and looks aside, believe it to be water tight for now. Hopefully, years!

I'm now on to the second (passenger) side, and it really needed the repair. The fiberglass pushed way in with large crack/opening in the old sealant. I've finished the first 10' following the same procedure - cutting, picking, coaxing as much of the old sealant out as possible, cleaning the track (denatured alcohol because it's what I have) and then resealing - AND my second bead looks better. Not pro, but better.

Here's the question, I'm at a point where the sealant is still in tact and doesn't readily pull out. So, do I leave it as is until I find separation further down the line, or go ahead and work to get the old out and reseal. I hate to mess with something that's not broken, but understand the logic of getting all new sealant all at one time.

So, what say ye?

Logically, I would say remove all the old sealant and install new even if it looks good.

However when I redid my about 2 months ago, I didn't. Where the old sealant looked good I just left it in place.

In the areas where the sealant looked intact I did push on the curved aluminum piece coming from the roof down into the gap or grove to be sure I couldn't push it away from the rail. If I could push it towards the center of the RV it would mean the sealant is no longer attached.

About the 6" or 8" curved piece coming from the fiberglass roof going down into the railing appears to be aluminum. Getting all the old sealant off caused some scratches removing the paint revealing what looks like aluminum.

[BobC]

I, too, vote for re-doing it now. You're on a roll so it won't be as difficult now as in the future. If you were definitely going to add Eternabond tape now, or in the near future, I'd say it was OK to leave it alone as long as you were satisfied the bead was truly intact.

One comment, though, the purpose of the bead is primarily to secure the fiberglass to the aluminum channel so wind can't get underneath and peel the roof off. As you can see by the drawing, water would have to flow uphill to leak into the coach as long as the edge of the fiberglass is fitted into the channel.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Upinsmoke

As the OP I wanted to give an update, and ask for another opinion of which, (thankfully) there appears to be no shortage. Appreciate all of the helpful hints in all of their various forms.

So as I indicated previously, I have completed one side of the roof radius, and looks aside, believe it to be water tight for now. Hopefully, years!

I'm now on to the second (passenger) side, and it really needed the repair. The fiberglass pushed way in with large crack/opening in the old sealant. I've finished the first 10' following the same procedure - cutting, picking, coaxing as much of the old sealant out as possible, cleaning the track (denatured alcohol because it's what I have) and then resealing - AND my second bead looks better. Not pro, but better.

Here's the question, I'm at a point where the sealant is still in tact and doesn't readily pull out. So, do I leave it as is until I find separation further down the line, or go ahead and work to get the old out and reseal. I hate to mess with something that's not broken, but understand the logic of getting all new sealant all at one time.

So, what say ye?

I agree. If the sealant is solid to the rail and roof, leave it. But, I would extend the new sealant several inches over the old.
The sealant is more of a roof anchor than a leak stopper. So many times we read of roof edges being torn off. Poor sealant maintenance is the reason. Keeping wind from getting under the roof fiberglass is so very important. That is why I like the idea of putting something in place that is more permanent like the Ebond or helicopter tape.
When I first did my coach the factory job was so poorly done that it was just a film in many places. This service should be insisted upon by every new owner from the dealer for any coach purchase. I never thought of having it done by the dealer when I bought this coach used several years ago. I could tell that it had never been re-done.