Roof leaks, ceiling falling 2007 Journey 36G

[NatureNut]

Hey all - sorry for this last minute post and hoping it wasn't covered previously, although I'm certain I'm not the first.
2007 36G - Roof must be leaking as the walls are starting to 'peel' in several places - mostly in bathroom, but also above door. Some leaks may be attributed to the failing/shrinking window gaskets (this also others may have encountered). The latest item is that the roof 'liner' (vinyl ceiling) is falling down all over. This is likely because the unit was not vented enough in hot weather while sitting idle for some months, but thinking it could be roof related as well.
Long story short- called Winnebago who says they will 'repair' the leaking roof but will need to 'replace it' at their facility at a cost of around 12K. Not sure if this includes the now failing liner and/or if they only mean the outside 'skin' of the roof. Anyone been down this path?
Any suggestions to save this Journey from the scrap yard? Low mileage (85K) on a decent 300HP Cummins and Freightliner frame is in great shape. Be a real shame to just tow it away. Front end needs some work (1 cracked window and original owner had it 'protected' with that 3M crap that has discolored and you can't get it off for your life). Would also like to find a better replacement headlamp set that the junk that Winnie built it with.
Pretty sure I'm not alone in the leak department and would love to hear what others have done. Saw a video on this a while back where some dude in AZ re-caulks the roof line (sides).
Thanks all!

[creativepart]

If Winnebago will replace your roof for $12k at the factory, I would start driving there tomorrow. I’m pretty sure it would be twice that elsewhere. I doubt it would include other fixes for the same price but if you want to save your RV that would be the way to go.

The factory tells owners to check the roof caulking every 6-12 months and to inspect all roof radius areas for shrinking caulk. Many do not follow that advice.

The factory service center in Iowa generally does a great job fixing all issues. Appointments are required and you’ll probably have to leave the RV with them for major repairs.

[Morich]

What I think you have is long delayed major REQUIRED maintenance!
Yes, I have dealt with it but it was back in the 70's when money was a far different issue for me. I would not attempt the repairs now on a bet!

I suspect you have far more damage than just the liner coming loosefrom the ceiling but that the ceiling has actuall degraded to the point that is will haveto be torn out and replaced.
It often starts as a small stain at a point near someedge of the roof and if that is not spotted and stops, the moisture creeps in , does not dry out and turns to fungus and rot that gradually works it's way across, eating any wood along the way.

The roof is a sandwich of materials that have changed over the years but still much the same with an outside cover laminated/glued to inner insulation and then any support framing before the inner is laminated to the sandwich. So the problem is that working from either the outside or inside, that layer is nearly impossible to remove! The adhesive is good stuff and I found no good way to remove it but simply had to chew it off and rebuild the framing. You may be fortunate if yu have metal framing which has not rotted???
But I would also be very surprised if anybody would do the job for 12,000 as it is a BIG effort.
Saving the RV should have beem started when the first stain showed up or before as the seals began to look bad! Now may be too late if you are not a young dedicated workhorse!

[Jim_HiTek]

Your rig is nearly identical to my '02 Journey and yours is both younger and worth ~$75,000. Some might say take it to the factory service in Forest City but I had nothing but bad luck with them...which always seemed to cost me money, not them. They screwed up so many times I won't ever take my rig back to them.

It would help if you posted pictures of what was wrong, but if there are no stains on your ceiling, I'd think that it was some other problem than a leaking roof. Maybe a poor installation job?

Peeling wall coverings can also be caused by installation during very high humidity conditions. If you have both ceiling and wall coverings trying to release, but no stains or other evidence of a roof leak, I'd be looking elsewhere for a cause.

Maybe talk to a home remodel specialist and enlist their help trying to figure out what's the actual cause?

[BobC]

Where are you located? It would help to know what your weather conditions (high humidity?) are.

I'm thinking that Jim_HiTek might be on the right track. I would think that a roof leak would be more localized and, as Jim suggested, would be accompanied by stains.

I don't know what kind of ceiling covering you have but when I had to remove the ceiling covering (fuzzy fabric) in my 2002 Suncruiser's bathroom's ceiling for repairs (skylight leak), it was clear that the adhesive is water based. All I had to do was spray it with water and it easily came off. I'd think that high humidity/poor ventilation could do the same.

I don't know how Winnebago could diagnose this as needing a full roof replacement without ever seeing your MH.

Window leaks often cause the outer siding to delaminate causing noticeable bubbling/bulging in the siding below the window. Re-bedding the window will fix the leak but the delamination can be a difficult/expensive repair. I have a couple of areas (1' x 1' or so) where the leak was repaired by a prior owner. I've chosen to leave them alone for the time being and they've been stable since Nov 2017. When not exposed to the sun they're almost unnoticeable. You should be able to tell if a window is a culprit by removing the inside trim.

[NatureNut]

Thanks all for your replies - @Richard, it was Winnebago who is saying they'll REPLACE the roof (as I understand it, in it's entirety) for the 12K (although that quote is about 12 months old- so probably more now). I agree with Jim about their QOS however. Everything I have heard with respect to Winnie's repair track record was never good, but I don't know anyone else that would do a complete replacement.
To be clear on the ceiling issue - this is vinyl ceiling that was obviously glued onto the structure - hard to tell what is under it because there is a 'black foam' backer that stays stuck to (I'm guessing) the plywood. If I can get that off easily the thought is to see if I can replace that with a new liner but I'm thinking the only way to do it correctly also means removing anything that makes contact with it as well (eg: cabinets, shower area, etc).
I understand that the roof section is actually possible to remove because there are rails down both sides and it separates also from the back/front. Challenge would be wiring and someplace under cover.
There were never 'stains' on the ceiling actually. The only noticeable areas started in the bathroom upper wall (why I think it's not necessarily the windows) and also above the entrance door.
The falling down vinyl ceiling is in fact probably due to excessive heat when stored in the summer without proper ventilation or A/C running over the last couple of years because it was not being driven/used.
I looked up the NADA value - and was even told by an RV dealer that it was worth ~70K or so but that was if the interior didn't have the issues it has now.
Just to be clear - I researched the 'caulking'/roof issue quite a bit, and found copious examples/stories and a few repair videos on this particular Winnie problem - the location would be between the wall and roof rail. Why? Well, here's one version of the story below. The 'fix' is to remove any failing/drying out caulk which is supposed to cover the seam where the fiberglass 'tucks' into the aluminum rail track:
Winnebago bends the roof material over the edge and wedges it behind the side trim. Bending the fiberglass forms the nice rolled radius you see from the ground. No screws go in the fiberglass roof material. This construction method does not secure the roof material to the RV. The smallest hole or opening allows wind to get in under the fiberglass. Wind is able to pop the fiberglass right out from behind the track and partially, sometimes fully, the material blows off. Hurricanes and intense thunderstorms with high winds are also causing these types of roofs to lift up and experience damage. Winnebago does not glue the fiberglass to the underlaying wood on the roof. Once the wind gets under the fiberglass, it blows off since nothing is holding the fiberglass down.

[Jim_HiTek]

That roof radius/edge issue only comes into play when it's already pulled out. To my knowledge, it doesn't cause any leaks at the radius as the structure and tucked in roofing material covers things. Are you saying your's has pulled out?

Here's what the roof looks like, you can see there's really no way for water to intrude unless the roofing material is pulled out of the channel:



And here's my preventative application of 2" Eternabond tape to the roof edges to help prevent it from pulling out when the caulking type material lets go, ad free blog post: Roof Edges...

However, imagine it raining at the factory and there are too many RVs lined up waiting for roofing that hasn't arrived yet. Do they just stop production? Or do they push the chassis' without a roof yet out into the yard and hope it doesn't rain too much?

[BobC]

I agree with Jim_HiTek. The roof edge issue isn't a leak issue, it's a roof blowing off issue.

Roof leaks, unless the Filon is cracked, generally occur at roof fixtures such as skylights, vents, air conditioners, antennas, ladder mounts, etc., along with the front and rear caps.

Many of these fixtures (vents, skylights, etc.) have removable ceiling trim fittings. Once removed, any leaks should be fairly obvious. In the case of my leaking skylight I could see that the top layer of luan plywood was deteriorating from the moisture.

[tim myers]

That is a really good graphic. I have the sagging ceiling vinyl, mainly in the bedroom. While that picture shows the fuzzy (recycled pop bottle) material, mine is the foam backed vinyl. It is uslly the foam that breaks down and starts to separate from itself. Last I checked Winnebago wanted between $1800 and $200 per 4 ft panel to replace this stuff. In some cases interior cabinets need to be removed, as the entire ceiling is applied before any walls, cabinets etc are installed into the coach.
Good luck and keep us posted on your repair, we all learn from these challenges.

[bigb]

Originally Posted by NatureNut

Winnebago bends the roof material over the edge and wedges it behind the side trim. Bending the fiberglass forms the nice rolled radius you see from the ground. No screws go in the fiberglass roof material. This construction method does not secure the roof material to the RV. The smallest hole or opening allows wind to get in under the fiberglass. Wind is able to pop the fiberglass right out from behind the track and partially, sometimes fully, the material blows off. Hurricanes and intense thunderstorms with high winds are also causing these types of roofs to lift up and experience damage. Winnebago does not glue the fiberglass to the underlaying wood on the roof. Once the wind gets under the fiberglass, it blows off since nothing is holding the fiberglass down.

I don't know where that information came from but the Filon is definitely glued down to the Luan on mine, I found that out when I removed my Satellite dish and my OTA antenna, several pieces of Filon were siliconed onto the bases so well that they pulled off and the Luan was stuck to them very tightly. The first one or two layers of Luan grain broke out of the sheet and stayed with the Filon. I had to repair with Bondo for fiberglass.

[Jim_HiTek]

In the picture above you can see where the fuzzy ceiling is glued to a backer board of 1/8th" and that's what the Bounder I used to own and this Journey I own now have/had. I recall not too long ago I was following a thread about replacing this type with new after water damage and I remember it WAS available but I just can't dredge it up from the depths of my memory ATM where I'd found it. Amazon maybe?

But, OP, note that it is available. I'd bet what you have is available too. I don't know how difficult it would be for you to just change the ceiling out but I'd bet there are tools of the trade that would make it somewhat easy. If you can peruse this one and those other two big RV forums and find the name of the stuff you have with the foam backing, that should make finding resources much easier.

[BobC]

1. I've read conflicting comments about whether or not the roof Filon is glued down. I do know that AZ Expert glues it down when he does roof replacements. The conflicting comments may have to do with the failure of some roofs coming unglued.

2. I don't see the photo that Jim_HiTek is commenting about.

3. For what it's worth, when I replaced the ceiling in my bathroom, I did so with textured FRP panels from either Lowes or Home Depot, adhering them with 3m spray on contact adhesive. They were the right choice for the bathroom, the fuzzy stuff being a terrible choice, but the hard surface may be too noisy for the main parts of the MH. They're available in panels larger than the typical 4' x 8':

https://www.lowes.com/pl/Fiberglass-...ent=1971214752

[tim myers]

Picture is in post 7

[fudgeanyone]

Two thoughts on this. I have a 2006 Itasca Meridan which is just a Journey with a fancy name. First have you had someone put a hose on the roof and actually searched for the leak. My leak was above the drivers side window up in the cabinet. Found it when we had a hard rain in CO. Described to the RV Mobile service and he came out and verified the leak which was around the seam where the cap and body slide together. He caulked it and I haven't had a problem in two years. So I encourage you to find the leak by water testing before you do anything.

Once you solve the leak problem you will feel more comfortable replacing the ceiling. I live in Texas and the heat finally made the vinyl separate from the foam backing. I had a severe sagging problem. You tube will show you several solutions. But if you put the vinyl padded ceiling you will need to take down the cabinets. I decided to go a different direction. I purchased Veranda White PVC Beadboard Siding from Home Depot and some trim to go around the boarders. The hardest and messiest part of the job is cutting and removing the Vinyl and foam backing from my ceiling. Then I started at the front slide on the driver's side and began installing the PVC. I chose to use a finish nailer and 1 1/4" nails with very good success. If I were to do it over again, I would use glue and avoid filling all the nail holes. I haven't taken any pictures,
but it has been up for over 3 years.

Good luck with your problems,

Wally

[Jim_HiTek]

I seem to recall seeing a DIY blog or Youtube video of someone that had that ceiling material with foam backing drooping down in a RV rebuild and they used spray on glue for the most part to re-mount the ceiling. Doing a small section at a time...the trick was having stiff sheet product to hold up to the ceiling while the glue set. Not sure that would work in your situation though. It was years ago that I saw that so don't have a link.

And then the front and rear cap seams? I used 4" wide Eternabond roofing tape for both seams shortly after I bought this RV and it has never leaked, even during multiple heavy downpours in Iowa, and the tape is still in great shape. Ad free blog article here: Roof and Roof Items...Also used it around roof top items, AND along each roof edge but 2" in that case. No maintenance is a wonderful thing. (I hate caulking...always end up with as much on my hands and clothes as in any crack).

[Liv4weekends]

The ceiling liner in my unit began falling in bathroom and is progressing into bedroom. Its the vinyl with foam backing that degrades over time. I have it all being replaced now with new panels. Had to clear cabinets out as they have to be removed, not easy per repair tech. He told me he sees a lot of liner drop. My unit is stored outside and I used covers until I got fed up with their low quality and high expense. Appreciate feedback on whether using a dehumidifier inside would be helpful, and if there are any covers worth the expense.

[Bo Walker]

I live in high humidity north Florida. I have never had a problem with interior moisture. I always leave the largest fan vent open with the protective cover preventing rain from entering. I think it has been helpful over the years. I don't ever want a smother cover over my motor home.

[Liv4weekends]

Thanks for your feedback. I have the same heat/humidity here in the beach area of SC. Thought rain would blow in the vent fans, but I can adjust the lid lower for the one in kitchen area and bath. The no-cover makes more sense, surely inhibits ventilation.

[Bobn1957]

My ceiling fabric has come loose in several areas and my plan is to use painted thumbtacks in a button-tuft pattern. It should look OK and will be a whole lot simpler than pulling the ceiling apart.

[tim myers]

I think the tacks are a good idea, send pictures when you are finished with it