Walked away today from closing on a 2012 Via

[DavidM]

I had seen this coach a few weeks earlier and called to negotiate the price with the salesman a week or so later. Agreed on a price- $46,000 and scheduled a test drive and mechanic walk through followed by closing for today.

First, I am an electrical/mechanical nerd. I do understand how most RV systems work and know how to diagnose problems rather than just change parts.

We drove 2-1/2 hours from our home in SW Florida to the dealer's shop. When we got there the salesman gave us a quick going over, more for my wife's benefit (she had not seen it yet) than mine. Just like two weeks ago the salesman couldn't get the front seats to rotate. That p*&%$ me off a bit as he had two weeks to figure it out, but I figured the mechanic could put it straight.

Then I talked with their head mechanic who had done all of the Sprinter chassis work- changed the oil and filters on both the chassis engine and the generator. Was surprised that he sent it out to the local Mercedes dealer to replace an O2 sensor and another emissions related device. Continual problems with the Sprinter engine emissions stuff was one of my biggest fears.

But after that I spent an hour or more with the coach mechanic. He was quite knowlegeable and after he figured out I knew a thing or two, we got along fine. Three problems surfaced:

1. The coach batteries were near dead which probably contributed to the front seats not releasing to rotate. You have to raise them up electrically before they will rotate.

2. The mechanic got the front seats to go up and down electrically after he replaced the batteries but the driver's side was still binding up and wouldn't raise fully.

3. The chassis alternator would not charge the coach batteries even after they were replaced. We figured this was caused by a bad solenoid which I understand is under the driver's seat. He had to pull the driver's seat anyway so would check that out when it was off.

The mechanic said he wanted to get lunch and that was fine with me. I caught up with the salesman and asked him if we could do the test drive now (I hadn't driven the beast yet).

We pulled in the slide an awning, disconnected shore power, adjusted the mirrors and tried to pull forward but the brakes were locked. The emergency brake wasn't releasing. We fiddled with it and got it to release but an alarm sounded. Try as we may we couldn't find a position that would release the brakes but not alarm.

By then I had had it. I went inside and reported to my wife what had happened. She was ready to walk away after the first three problems surfaced and this was the last straw. I agreed and we told the salesman no deal and drove away.

Take aways:

Sprinter and probably small Ford diesel based coaches have continuing problems with their emissions systems. The base engine is great, but the add on stuff for pollution control is the killer. No wonder why VW cheated to avoid DEF injection and diesel particulate filters (DPF).

Modern coaches are complex and stuff goes bad. Even a decent dealer who does a full go through can't find it all. Well, I think they could have found the bad batteries easily and the seat problem was apparent from the time the coach arrived at the door (it was a trade in). The chassis alternator not charging the coach took a little more sophisticated analysis but any decent mechanic should have caught that. But I suspect they aren't looking for that kind of stuff.

If you are buying a used RV, don't depend on the dealer to go through the coach and find all of the problems. If you don't understand the systems, hire a specialist (I have no idea how to find one) to help you go through the coach with the dealer's mechanic at your side. This point is equally valid for a new coach. Not everything works straight from the factory and trips back to the dealer for warranty work are always a PITA.

I hope the next guy benefits from the four hours I spent trying to figure it all out. Hey maybe I can send him a bill

David

[jhedges]

I appreciate you telling this story. Sorry you had to go through that. Hope you get in something and it goes more smoothly.

[Jim_HiTek]

I think you'll find hardly any dealer spends the money to have their mechanic do anything to the RV to make it more sale-able. They're just hoping the next sucker...er...buyer is too starry eyed or too much of a push over to notice or complain. Go back in a week an look at that same RV and if it's not sold, you'll probably find all the same issues.

Best thing a buyer can do to protect themselves is to take an RV expert along with them.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

Sprinter and probably small Ford diesel based coaches have continuing problems with their emissions systems. The base engine is great, but the add on stuff for pollution control is the killer. No wonder why VW cheated to avoid DEF injection and diesel particulate filters (DPF).

Sorry to have heard of your problems but we have never had an issue with our 2018 Winnebago Fuse diesel, at least so far. I have it serviced regularly, keep the DEF from running out and it just runs and runs, giving us great fuel economy figures.

[DavidM]

Originally Posted by AJMike

Sorry to have heard of your problems but we have never had an issue with our 2018 Winnebago Fuse diesel, at least so far. I have it serviced regularly, keep the DEF from running out and it just runs and runs, giving us great fuel economy figures.

Mike:

I do like the Ford diesel. I will bet there are ten times the places to get sophisticated engine service done on the Ford Powerstroke diesel than the Mercedes Sprinter.

But in my research the Winnebago Fuse with twin beds has the bathroom in the aft end, which pushes the bedroom forward and almost makes it part of the living area. Sometimes one of us stays up and reads while the other goes to bed. That layout will make that more difficult. Also it is 1-1/2 feet shorter than the Sprinter based models so everything is a bit tighter.

Just ran across a Tifin Motorhome Winnebago View equivalent. Tiffin is small, family owned and based in Georgia. If Winnebago is a B- quality builder, then Tiffin is an A- (I put Thor down in the C- catagory).

Somewhat more expensive though- 10-15% more than a Winnebago.

David

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

Mike:

I do like the Ford diesel. I will bet there are ten times the places to get sophisticated engine service done on the Ford Powerstroke diesel than the Mercedes Sprinter.

And there is no bio diesel issue with Ford.

Originally Posted by DavidM

Mike:But in my research the Winnebago Fuse with twin beds has the bathroom in the aft end, which pushes the bedroom forward and almost makes it part of the living area. Sometimes one of us stays up and reads while the other goes to bed. That layout will make that more difficult.

And that is one of the reasons we bought the 23T, the rear bedroom slide, and not the 23A.

Originally Posted by DavidM

Just ran across a Tifin Motorhome Winnebago View equivalent. Tiffin is small, family owned and based in Georgia. If Winnebago is a B- quality builder, then Tiffin is an A- (I put Thor down in the C- catagory).

Somewhat more expensive though- 10-15% more than a Winnebago.

We looked closely at the Tiffins but could not find one that had an interior that my wife liked, and I did not want to wait for a special order.

I actually wanted something longer than the Fuse - perhaps 27 or 28 feet - and I did not want the MB chassis, but my wife wanted something smaller, and the Fuse is what we compromised on.

[Deny]

I completely agree with you, concerning the emission/safety sensor issues. We ordered a new Winnebago View, picked it up with 25 miles on it in Forest City, Iowa. We kept it 2 years, enjoyed every one of the 37K miles, but the warning lights were a consistent issue...never a mechanical issue, always a light was on

[JerryP]

We bought a 2017 Winnebago View 24V last year. Was interested in the Tiffin, but the carrying capacity was very small. It was somewhere between 700 and 800 lbs. My View is around 1200 lbs.

Regards, Jerry

[jhedges]

I liked the Tiffin too but also heard about the low OCCC. Was looking around at a smaller option myself, and I can't stop looking at these:

This guy is pretty entertaining. watch the whole thing. And a tad $$

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LFEHUMbL_Q

[Bo Walker]

DavidM, I know a little about your and your wife's feelings. Even-though, I haven't advertised my Winnebago Adventurer for sale, I decided I'd like to try a diesel pusher. I found a 2000 Diplomat at RV Connections in Panama City. I made the trip from Crawfordville, Florida to the dealership and Shaun Baker walked me through the coach. They had just received it the day before. So, it stilled contained the belongings of the previous owner as they was waiting for the new 5th wheel to be detailed. Shaun was the greatest. He did diligence in showing the coach and I like a lot of it. But, my controller (Jan) had not seen it. I used a credit card to put $5,000 down to show I was really interested in purchasing it.
Shaun called me a few days later and told me it was ready. I intended to pay cash for it. So there was no waste of time getting finance. I'm not sure I could get financing on one that old anyhow. Jan and I went to check it out Saturday June 13. Oh well, I agreed with Jan. The bathroom was very small, toilet in a closet all just two compact. The refrigerator had been replaced with one that cut the passage to the bathroom and bedroom down to about 18 inches. Annnd, it is simply too long to use in some of the smaller campgrounds we like visit. It, like most I find on the internet is 40 feet long. My Winnebago Adventurer is 34 feet long. I would like to find a nice diesel pusher in the 35-38 foot range. For now we'll keep enjoying the gas burner.
If you're looking, I would like to suggest you go see Shaun Baker at RV Connections in Panama City, Florida.

[DavidM]

Bo:

My walking away from the Via had little to do with its layout, style and amenities, but everything to do with the numerous problems found during my checkout of the unit. As others have noted, few dealers will go through a "let's prove that this switch works" checkout which is what I did rather than a "the relay clicks so it must work" approach that the dealer's mechanics probably did to prepare it for sale.

The former is absolute and the later is maybe. The crazy thing is that it only takes a few more minutes of time to prove that it works. But that is the nature of used RV dealers and their mechanics it seems.

Oh let me explain the difference, using the boost switch that ties the coach batteries to the chassis batteries to boost starting as an example. The mechanic pushed the boost switch and we heard the relay click. But I wanted to prove it worked. So I put my clamp on ammeter on the coach batteries' heavy red wire, the mechanic pushed the switch and cranked the engine. The current shot up, proving that the relay worked and additional starting current was being supplied by the coach batteries.

I will bet very few dealer mechanics would go through this step.

David

[plrude]

We currently own a 2018 view and a 2005 leisure van. Our first rv was a 2007 View three years old with 30k on it. The lessons we learned are:
If a rv sits too long and has low mileage, you will have problems due to lack of use.
If the rv is brand new, you will have lots of problems because the suppliers of the interior parts lack quality control and dealerships do not go through the rv checking for problems. They expect you to find them.
There are no training facilities for RV techs so you need to find a dealership with knowledgable service staff.
Winnebago has extremely poor customer service.. Your only hope of warranty work being done is from the dealership you bought it. If you go to a dealership other than the one you bought it from, there will be a charge for warranty work and they will be reticent to work on you vehicle. My opinion after 3 years of dealing with Winnebago is they are in the business of sales and not service.
In my opinion,you need to be able to fix it yourself or have a good service center nearby, otherwise your negative experience is pretty much the norm for rv repair and service. Good luck, well all need it.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by jhedges

I liked the Tiffin too but also heard about the low OCCC. Was looking around at a smaller option myself, and I can't stop looking at these:

This guy is pretty entertaining. watch the whole thing. And a tad $$

My wife saw one of these videos and told me that that was what she wanted, but when we tried to actually see one near where we live we found it nearly impossible to find a dealer who had one that we could walk into. We were told to go to Sacramento, California just to see a model and that is a long drive from southern Arizona. They seem to be pretty upscale and very pricey but I would still like to see one.

I am a bit surprised that they would offer a 2000 watt inverter and not put Lithium batteries in the RV, but AGMs would seem better than the standard wet cells.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by plrude

We currently own a 2018 view and a 2005 leisure van. Our first rv was a 2007 View three years old with 30k on it. The lessons we learned are:
If a rv sits too long and has low mileage, you will have problems due to lack of use.
If the rv is brand new, you will have lots of problems because the suppliers of the interior parts lack quality control and dealerships do not go through the rv checking for problems. They expect you to find them.
There are no training facilities for RV techs so you need to find a dealership with knowledgable service staff.
Winnebago has extremely poor customer service.. Your only hope of warranty work being done is from the dealership you bought it. If you go to a dealership other than the one you bought it from, there will be a charge for warranty work and they will be reticent to work on you vehicle. My opinion after 3 years of dealing with Winnebago is they are in the business of sales and not service.
In my opinion,you need to be able to fix it yourself or have a good service center nearby, otherwise your negative experience is pretty much the norm for rv repair and service. Good luck, well all need it.

We have owned 2 Winnebago RVs, a Class A and a Class C, and never had the issues you mention. Both RVs were relatively trouble free after some minor warranty work was done and I have always found Winnebago customer service to be very, very good. As an example they maintain a free tech line that you can call and get to speak to an actual technician and get questions answered. I know because I have used it repeatedly and always felt I was treated properly and got the information I needed.

Another example. We had a warranty issue with our new compressor refrigerator and since the dealer was too busy to take us immediately I contacted the local Norcold dealer. They agreed to do the warranty work but said that all work has to be preceded by a system diagnostic and that had to be paid for even if the actual work was done under warranty. I spoke with Winnebago support and they agreed to reimburse me for the diagnostic cost and I received a check within about a week. I think that is pretty good service.

As for dealers not doing warranty work on out-of-town RVs, that is certainly not true where we live as our local dealer, from whom we bought the RV, is constantly doing warranty work for out-of-town snowbirds and that is why I could not get my RV in immediately.

I am sorry to have read about your issues with Winnebago but I have never seen anything like that where we live in southern Arizona.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by AJMike

My wife saw one of these videos and told me that that was what she wanted, but when we tried to actually see one near where we live we found it nearly impossible to find a dealer who had one that we could walk into.

It would require a trip but a major National RV show (not the dumb local "shows" in name only) would be the place to see and even order the Unity.

They are very popular right now. Made in Canada they are not on every dealer's lot.

We did see one and it was super deluxe. VERY nice inside and out. The one we saw had Lithium batteries and I think it was from the factory.

Pretty pricey, though.

If you like the Unity check out the new Airstream Atlas. It's also a Murphy Bed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80qy8mdKHK4

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by AJMike

I am a bit surprised that they would offer a 2000 watt inverter and not put Lithium batteries in the RV, but AGMs would seem better than the standard wet cells.

Go to the Build and Price and you can see a Lithium option. In fact, the Murphy Bed model fully optioned out was about $160,000 list price.

We have a friend that has a different slightly older model and he loves it.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by creativepart

It would require a trip but a major National RV show (not the dumb local "shows" in name only) would be the place to see and even order the Unity.

They are very popular right now. Made in Canada they are not on every dealer's lot.

We did see one and it was super deluxe. VERY nice inside and out. The one we saw had Lithium batteries and I think it was from the factory.

Pretty pricey, though.

If you like the Unity check out the new Airstream Atlas. It's also a Murphy Bed.

Nice RV but a couple of serious drawbacks for me. First, no outside storage to speak of. The one cabinet at the rear was very tall, but not very deep and you would have to end up stacking everything on top of everything else. Also, and this seems like a real issue for me, there is no roof ladder so getting on top of the roof to clean the solar panels would be a real hassle.

And it being an Airstream, I assume it carries a hefty price tag. I guess the new MB diesel chassis no longer has a shift level so I am not sure how you downshift if you want to. There are probably some electronic controls but the video did not show them.

[Diesel-Lover]

Reminds me of the Born Free type ambiance and fit and finish.


Love the Murphy bed option in the video. Very nice and the ability to use the bed without slide out is great as well. Kinda liked the read bedroom lounge with Murphy!
The interior design difference between the Airstream and the Unity is wow. Prefer the Unity by miles myself. External body design as well. Dunno what the bucks difference it though. The Unity is built like a classy Yacht. But the bucks involved wow.



Hey with the dirt cheap interest rates at present its a don't worry be happy. The RV cgs errr resorts need to come up with a layout that is less a tenament and move a luxo resort approach, not just in the amenities but in where we park. Armpit to Armpit and bum to bum ain't my idear of luxo no matter how big the pool or how fancy the rest-o-the place. Insulated inside the rig well ok but step out and its hmmm.


Visited a friend in not far from Boca region, nice amenities but the condo was like 2 room motel 6, the price however was used RV cheap! 2 bedrooms, great room and kitchen, common balcony access to condo, pvt screened balcony off master. HOA dues less than RV resort rate and Amenities = pools, courts, lounges, restaurants, golf etc etc super fancy including shopping trips, walking trails, gardens, ponds, fishing... etc etc etc. The whole facility was built about late 70s early 80s my guess, though design is spacious like in mide60s. Many units have been upgraded as have the general use facilities and slowly as budget permits they are modernizing the exterior as well. Hmm perhaps a couple of castles here and there and a pullman to ferry us!?


Darn forgot to buy that winning lottery ticket yet again.

[Salianron]

Originally Posted by DavidM

Bo:

My walking away from the Via had little to do with its layout, style and amenities, but everything to do with the numerous problems found during my checkout of the unit. As others have noted, few dealers will go through a "let's prove that this switch works" checkout which is what I did rather than a "the relay clicks so it must work" approach that the dealer's mechanics probably did to prepare it for sale.

The former is absolute and the later is maybe. The crazy thing is that it only takes a few more minutes of time to prove that it works. But that is the nature of used RV dealers and their mechanics it seems.

Oh let me explain the difference, using the boost switch that ties the coach batteries to the chassis batteries to boost starting as an example. The mechanic pushed the boost switch and we heard the relay click. But I wanted to prove it worked. So I put my clamp on ammeter on the coach batteries' heavy red wire, the mechanic pushed the switch and cranked the engine. The current shot up, proving that the relay worked and additional starting current was being supplied by the coach batteries.

I will bet very few dealer mechanics would go through this step.

David

I can relate to your experience with the sales staff. When I decided to sell my 2011 Via, I took it back to the factory to have them replace the no working television and fix the little things that I had just been putting up a so that everything was working properly. Since I don't live near any large city, I left the Via with a consignment company. It did not sell as quickly as I expected so I decided to take it home for winter storage. They had moved it to the front for pick up and had to hear the alarm when they drove it. As soon As I released the handbrake I recognized the alarm signalling that a seat was not down all the way. The passenger seat had the side trim pinched under the seat. East fix for anyone other than a stupid or uncaring sales person. I needed the exposure and traffic generated by the consignment company, but it should have been shown by the owner or someone who took the time to at least fix what they screwed up.