2019 Navion 24D Square Tires

HFA · 07-08-2018, 06:10 AM

OK, the tires are not square, but they are not round. I just purchased a new 2019 Navion 24D about a month ago. We love it, with one exception. The tires have flat spots. I took it to my local Sprinter dealer and they checked it out. He told me that the front tires had 60 lb. of road force. That is excessive. He claimed this was a result of the unit sitting in one place for a long time resulting in flat spots on the tires. The Navion now has 3,000+ miles on it and the flat spots are still evident in the ride. Mercedes warranty won't cover it because it is a tire issue. The dealer called Continental and they said they will not cover flat spots because that is not a defect in the tire. I am about to call the selling dealer to see if Winnebago or somebody will take ownership of this issue.

I have never had this type of issue as a result of something being parked for an extended time. I had a Sprinter based class C before this that I would park for a few months over the winter and never had an issue with the tires. My new unit chassis was built in December of 2017. The coach was built in March of 2018, and I bought it the first week of June 2018. Yes, the vibration feels like flat spots on the tires, but I would expect that to smooth out after a driving a while. But, in this case, it doesn't.

If nobody is going to take ownership of this problem, my options appear to be to try remounting using match mounting and rebalancing, get the tires "shaved" to make them round, or buy new tires. Has anybody else experienced this issue, and if so, what was your resolution?

SarahW · 07-08-2018, 09:44 AM

Sorry to hear of this issue, but I must say that I'm surprised... especially on a 2019 coach. After reading about motorhome tires for many years now, I thought I understood that the tire manufacturers had addressed the "flat spot" issue. Supposedly even when an RV sits for extended periods the flat spot should work itself out after a few miles warming up on the highway. Seems to me that Continental should step up to the plate here... how could it be Winnebago or the dealer's problem?

I hope you can get this issue resolved. I know most of us have our RVs parked for weeks or even months at a time with no flat spot problem, and this is the first I've heard of it on a Sprinter.

Oh, and welcome to the forum. We're glad you signed up.

luvlabs · 07-08-2018, 11:40 AM

I'm not buying what the Mercedes dealer is telling you at all. What the heck is 60 lbs of road force???? "Flat spots" from parking go away as soon as the tire warms up. Other flat spots from locked wheels and braking (hard to do with anti-lock brakes) probably haven't occurred. Think Nascar and the Daytona wrecks if you want a visual image.

Take your coach to a competent tire shop that has modern tire balancing equipment and get all six of them rebalanced. Make sure you tire person does not jack up the rear of your coach on the differential. While you are at the tire shop, have them check the run out on the tires (that's how you measure roundness) and if they are not in spec (yes, there is a spec for that), then Continental should replace them.

If the tires are out of round and Continental balks, I would enlist Winnebagos aide in trying to get this resolved.

NYBobbo · 07-09-2018, 08:07 AM

exactly what Luvlabs says. I had issues with one tire that was causing issues and it turned out to be my front left tire was out of spec for rollout. Continental replaced the tire without any prorated charge since it only had 3000 miles on it.

HFA · 07-09-2018, 08:38 AM

Road force is a measure of the difference between the force on the road at the lowest point on the tire and the highest point on the tire. It is a better indication than radial runout because it includes elements in the construction of the tire. A perfectly round and perfectly consistent tire would have a road force of zero. You almost never get there, but 60 lbs. is excessive and you feel it in the steering wheel and in the seat of your pants. The MB dealer is telling me that the limit for the Sprinter is 40 lbs. Even that sounds excessive as I shoot for less than 15 lbs. in my passenger vehicles.

I will be talking to my Sprinter dealer tomorrow to find out exactly what Continental had to say. I agree that Continental should step up on this one. I could take it to another tire dealer, and still may, but I feel comfortable having the Sprinter dealer work on it. I feel less comfortable having a shop that is not familiar with the Sprinters work on it.

Kayak73 · 07-09-2018, 02:04 PM

Keep us informed about the outcome. Our 18V24D has the flat spot syndrome but driving the rig in hot weather seems to smooth things out. When I first pull out of the driveway it is horrendous. I too am shocked that Conti is having this issue - now I have it. I suppose the quick solution is have Michelins put on the front but what a waste with about 3000 mi on the rig. It hasn't been driven much, shop time and trips to the shop is about it. Yeah, it is not out of balance tires, it is flat spots from sitting. Like I said, mine clears up in a few miles and by the time I hit the interstate on my treks to the service shop it is feeling just fine. It will be fun to see what happens when winter rolls around with the "square" tires. Got another 140 miles trip next week to get my replacement solar panel installed and if it starts off on flat spots I'll report the outcome. Early in purchase we drove it 1000 miles for the one real camping trip and the tires were perfectly "round", no flat spot syndrome at all. Let me just say, having it parked is not my idea of how we wanted to use the rig but we leave right after getting the solar panel put back on for a 5000 mile event. That should uncover more real problems if they are waiting.

akeagle · 07-14-2018, 08:52 PM

I thought "flatspotting" went away many years ago when the tire industry converted from bias-ply to radial designs. Apparently not.

PWRving · 07-15-2018, 04:14 AM

I had the spare tire placed on the front tire that did poorly on the road force balance.
Problem solved.

HFA · 07-19-2018, 05:44 PM

I had my Navion in the shop at my local Sprinter dealer for them to do the following:
- Check road force on all 7 tires
- Match mount those where it would reduce road force
- Rebalance
- Put the best 2 on the front, the worst one as spare, and the other 4 on the rear.
The service adviser was not optimistic as the tech found multiple with excessive lateral runout. I had to believe it would help, even if it didn't totally fix the vibrations.

The results:
- Match mounting got road force below 40 lb. on all 6 tires on the ground and improved the ride in the 40 - 60 mph range. I can still feel vibration, but it is not as severe as it was and I don't feel it in the steering wheel as much. The steering wheel vibrates over 60 mph, particularly in the 65 - 70 mph range, which is where it will be for a lot of miles.

My Sprinter dealer made a sincere effort to salvage these tires, but I don't think we'll be able to. He is following up with Continental to see what they can do for me. Stay tuned.

SarahW · 07-19-2018, 07:06 PM

Sounds promising. I hope it will work out in your favor.

HFA · 08-09-2018, 02:47 PM

Here's an update on my vibrations problem. Mercedes Benz stepped up and replaced all six tires on the ground with Firestone Transforce HT tires, not the spare. They did not charge me for the tires, mounting, or balancing. I did have them do an alignment while it was in the shop. We took it for a test ride today. All of the steering wheel shake is gone and the ride below 35 and over 60 is very good. So replacing the tires helped. At the mid range speeds of 40 to 60, I still have vibrations. What I feel now feels like drive line to me, a drive shaft, carrier bearing, or universal joint. I almost hate to go back because they have been very good about working with me on this issue and seemed confident that replacing the tires would resolve it. It certainly helped, but something is still not right. I'll try again.

HFA · 09-12-2018, 05:09 AM

Another update on the vibration issues:
My Navion was at the MB dealer for three and a half days for them to correct an alignment issue that they caused and to diagnose and correct the vibration. I specifically requested that they look at the drive train. To address the vibration, they road force mounted, balanced, and repositioned all six of those new tires that they had just put on. The tech says, "Found there is still a slight vibration between 30 - 40 mph, but after reading 50 mph found little to no vibration. After knowing all wheel assemblies balanced correctly, no further action can be performed with these specific tires currently on vehicle." Even on the short drive home from the dealer, I could tell that the vibration issue had not been resolved. I am disappointed and frustrated. There is not time to take it back to them before we leave for our extended trip in two days. So, I will be enduring what the tech calls a "slight vibration" for the next six weeks. Hopefully, I won't be one of those vehicles you see sitting along the highway with the drive shaft dangling underneath. I am going to stop by this morning and make an appointment for them to finish the job when we get back from our trip. Gr ...

Old Crows · 09-12-2018, 05:44 AM

Watching this thread with morbid curiosity......

Yeh, so there's vibration. RVs are not Lexii, Infinitii, or Rollers! They vibrate, squeak, rattle, clatter, whistle, whisper and talk to you continuously. They give you "feed back" not a novicane / Ambien experience.

It's interesting that of the several thousands Sprinters made into RVs that there are always several that appear to be hexed with odd problems.

HFA · 09-12-2018, 06:05 AM

This is not my first Sprinter. My last one, a 2016. was flawless through 36,000 miles. They don't "all do it." I suspect one of the three drive shaft sections is out of balance. I just want this diagnosed and fixed.

luvlabs · 09-12-2018, 09:34 AM

Drive it until it breaks. It may mess up your trip, but at least you will know what it was. I'm with Old Crows - it's a truck and it is going to do things. You were just incredibly lucky with your other Sprinter. Unless you live somewhere special, the roads aren't even smooth enough to allow you to detect minor vibrations. However, your brain can detect all kinds of things wrong when you let it. I think the Mercedes mechanic was being nice to you.

On a more serious note, did anyone check the runout on the wheels (not the tires)? One or more may be out of round or wiggling in and out.

Old Crows · 09-12-2018, 11:08 AM

[QUOTE=HFA;3824330]This is not my first Sprinter. My last one, a 2016. was flawless through 36,000 miles. They don't "all do it." I suspect one of the three drive shaft sections is out of balance. I just want this diagnosed and fixed.[/QUOTE

HEY! I get it. Calypso is our second one. Sometimes they have "personality and quirks" just like everything else. Calypso had a quirk of doing a moose call at low speeds & applying modest power. It didn`t downshift and sort of hung up for a while. Weird. Annoying. Puzzling. But, not worth making her a Hanger Queen so someone could fuzz around sorting out an annoyance and tearing into the transmission since it worked well 99.99998 % of the time.

After 4-5 K miles it went away.

Like LoveyLabs said: drive it till it breaks.

HFA · 09-12-2018, 03:02 PM

I just talked to the service adviser and tech. It seems that the replacement tires that they put on it were worse than the originals in terms of road force. Two of the replacements have about 40 pounds of road force, which is what Mercedes Sprinter considers to be the highest allowable amount. Anything over that they reject. Since mine are on the boundary, they are going to once again see if we can find some round tires. That won't happen until we get back from our trip. Maybe all of the miles will round them out enough that it won't be an issue by the time we get back. One can only hope!

Old Crows · 09-12-2018, 03:34 PM

Pardon my beak sticking in.... now I'm curious. The first tires were Conti Vanco 4 Season the OEM tire. 215/85R16. And the dealer put on Firestone Trans Force HT 215/85R16? Exactly the same size?

May I ask why they didn't put on the OEM Continentals?

HFA · 09-12-2018, 03:59 PM

Yes, exactly the same size. The dealer claims they get lots of complaints about the Continentals and have much better luck with the Firestones. If you look at Tire Rack reviews, you'll see that the Continentals are rated dead last. The Firestones are just one above them. Based on the miles reported, they seem to be a very popular tire.

HFA · 10-26-2018, 06:11 PM

Just back from a 5600 mile trip to the southwest. Here are the remaining issues:
Vibration. Yes, it's still there, in the 40 to 60 mph range. I don't think it's the tires. They have been rebalanced, moved around, and even replaced and the vibration is persistent. I suspect the drive line, but the dealer hasn't been willing to look there, yet.
Alignment. I normally don't let anybody touch the alignment unless I have drivability or handling issues, or experience abnormal tire wear. Because they were being so nice trying to fix the vibration, I let them talk me into doing an alignment. Mistake. The first time, it pulled to the right. I took it back and they made some adjustment. It still pulls to the right, just not as much. I spent most of 5600 miles holding it to the left so that I could drive straight.
Steering wheel jiggle. The steering wheel has some jiggle in the 65- 75 mph range. I believe this is related to the tires.
I have another appointment for November 13th to once again try to correct these issues.
It shouldn't be this hard!