Battery Compartment

[BernieMac23]

Hello Everyone,

So I been noticing a lot of road noise coming and couldn’t figure it out why. Today I finally looked under and there is massive cut off for the battery compartment where 2 of the house batteries are placed.

So my question is. Can I block that cut off with some foam ? There’s no way you need such a big cut for vents.

I own 2019 Outlook 25j

Any advice would be great.

Thanks

[Eagle5]

Hi Bernie,
I believe that much venting is required, with two batteries and all. When the batteries are being recharged, they generates an explosive combination of Hydrogen and Oxygen, so blocking-off that area makes me nervous.
Eagle5

[BernieMac23]

I was thinking the same. So now i know. I wont block it off.

Thank You

[Elkman]

Venting is not an issue as many trailers and motorhomes and boats have fully enclosed battery compartments. The chassis battery in the Mercedes Sprinter cab is in an enclosed compartment with no venting at all.

Where venting is needed with a battery there is a place to attach a hose to it for venting but I have not seen this actdually being done for many years. Has anyone ever read of an RV damaged by gases from the batteries? Many destroyed by leaking propane including boats and houses.

I attached a piece of 1/8" steel sheet to the bottom using 10-32 thread cutting screws. I bought Xcel 1/4" thick closed cell neoprene sheet with an adhesive backing and used it to line the compartment. I filled in the sides with sections of 24 x 24 x 1 inch foam I bought at Lowes and cut to size.There are also two very large openings at the front and rear of this space for the cables runs and I used expansive foam in a can to seal these openings.

[Subsailor653]

Normal battery charging and discharging is not the concern. If the battery is over charged or discharged too low or abused then off gassing is a concern. That is the reason for then vents. If you want to seal them off to keep critters out, use some 1/4 inch wire mesh not a solid piece metal.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Subsailor653

Normal battery charging and discharging is not the concern. If the battery is over charged or discharged too low or abused then off gassing is a concern. That is the reason for then vents. If you want to seal them off to keep critters out, use some 1/4 inch wire mesh not a solid piece metal.

The OP was concerned with road noise.

[youracman]

Just a suggestion, Bernie- FWIW

In my previous life.....when installing new vertical flow furnaces in older homes with a slab floor, I always lined the air inlet area (slab, sidewalls, etc) with ductboard ... which is both an insulating and sound proofing material. I never measured the before and after db rating, but the sound reduction was very significant. (Many tract home builders did not line that area with anything and my mod made customers v-e-r-y happy.) All you need to do is make those sound waves hit some sound deadening mtl before they can make the "right turn" into the battery box ...... and your coach.

The attached sketch reflects my thoughts. Dunno if you have the clearance to mount that modified "hat section" or not though. A nice deep bread pan would be easy to work with and to attach using alum angle from a big box store.

Separate but related subject: There are a few enterprising folks selling kits to quiet RV rooftop AC's. Those kits install from inside the coach and the same principle applies. Most who install them say they are amazed at the sound reduction.

Good luck with a fix. If the road noise is so strong you can hear it above the engine and other noise it sure might be worth the time/effort to "go after it."

BTW if you click on the attachment it should enlarge.

Safe travels to ya ...................

[Boale]

I would suggest you replace the stock batteries with two AGM GC batteries then seal off as much of the battery box as you like. I would also add a battery monitor to the setup as well. I have been buying batteries and solar panels through AM Solar and highly recommend them. My current battery setup is 2 Lifeline GPL-4CT, 6volt 220amp AGM wired in series for a total of 12volts and 220amps coupled with a Victron Battery Monitor - Very accurate gauge of battery condition.

[Elkman]

AGM batteries suffer from the same limitations for discharge as flooded lead acid batteries and are hardly an upgrade. Better to put your money into lithium-phosphate batteries than can be discharged twice as much and have a much longer life and that can be rechared in a third the time of lead acid type ones.

For noise, adding a blanket of closed cell neoprene foam will work well and is not expensive and takes very little time to do and no mechanical skills. It comes in sheet form with an adhesive backing.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by youracman

Just a suggestion, Bernie- FWIW

In my previous life.....when installing new vertical flow furnaces in older homes with a slab floor, I always lined the air inlet area (slab, sidewalls, etc) with ductboard ... which is both an insulating and sound proofing material. I never measured the before and after db rating, but the sound reduction was very significant. (Many tract home builders did not line that area with anything and my mod made customers v-e-r-y happy.) All you need to do is make those sound waves hit some sound deadening mtl before they can make the "right turn" into the battery box ...... and your coach.

The attached sketch reflects my thoughts. Dunno if you have the clearance to mount that modified "hat section" or not though. A nice deep bread pan would be easy to work with and to attach using alum angle from a big box store.

Separate but related subject: There are a few enterprising folks selling kits to quiet RV rooftop AC's. Those kits install from inside the coach and the same principle applies. Most who install them say they are amazed at the sound reduction.

Good luck with a fix. If the road noise is so strong you can hear it above the engine and other noise it sure might be worth the time/effort to "go after it."

BTW if you click on the attachment it should enlarge.

Safe travels to ya ...................

I like this solution. You're probably hearing a lot of wind-created noise as well as road noise. This solution would move the opening to the rear, thereby minimizing the wind noise as well as the road noise.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Elkman

AGM batteries suffer from the same limitations for discharge as flooded lead acid batteries and are hardly an upgrade.

I would love for you to qualify that statement?

I just replaced two working Winnebago OEM FLA batteries with 2 new V Tank Pure AGM Solar batteries; in my opinion it is one of the best things I have done since buying the RV

Advantages
1. There was nothing wrong with my FLA, but I was tired of the corrosion in my new coach and the cleaning involved.
2. I do not wish to have to add water. Not saying I can't, nor that I don't know how, or if there are easy ways to do; I am saying I don't want to add water and check levels PERIOD.
3. I didn't even have to go to a 6v GC; as I got two Group 31 with 125 AH each for total of 250 AHs.
4. I have yet to get the new batteries under 12.5v during my normal routine; with the FLA my genset would kick on at least 3 times a day during my normal routine set at 12.2 vdc
5. Since it is Pure AGM it has triple the cycles and rated to last 8 - 10 years
6. I have not even had to open my Battery compartment since I took my last pictures of the new batteries
7. No dangers of acid around
8. Maintenance free
9. I posted on ebay and still could not give away the two OEM stock batteries!!!! I eventually just dropped them off at nearby Auto Service center.

Disadvantage
1. I paid about $250 more than the FLA
2. About 60 pounds heavier
3. That it took me about a year to learn that I should I bought these AGM batteries on Day 1

None of the above disadvantages constitute a limitations on my part.

[Elkman]

Pure AGM only means that "pure lead" is used with the glass mat. The sale pitch is that they will last for 3 times as many charge and discharge cycles (about 900) as a regular flooded lead acid battery. On the other hand there is still the issue of damage if taken below 50% SOC. The charge cycles published show only 400 cycles if the batteries are taken down to 80% SOC as compared to 2000 charge cycles with lithium-phosphate under the same conditions.

With lithium-phosphate the SOC can be brought to 10% (safety shutoff with most) and they will recharge in a third the time of a lead acid battery and they will support from 2000 to 3000 charge cycles depending on the depth of the discharges.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Elkman

Pure AGM only means that "pure lead" is used with the glass mat. The sale pitch is that they will last for 3 times as many charge and discharge cycles (about 900) as a regular flooded lead acid battery. On the other hand there is still the issue of damage if taken below 50% SOC. The charge cycles published show only 400 cycles if the batteries are taken down to 80% SOC as compared to 2000 charge cycles with lithium-phosphate under the same conditions.

With lithium-phosphate the SOC can be brought to 10% (safety shutoff with most) and they will recharge in a third the time of a lead acid battery and they will support from 2000 to 3000 charge cycles depending on the depth of the discharges.

Respectfully, I will not extend my point into difference AGM (Pure or not) with Lithium because that is / was clearly NOT my point nor an option for me for many other reasons.

I cited above many advantages of my Pure AGM Vmax Tanks over the factory installed OEM FLA battery. It is night and day difference.

The Capacity to depth of discharge for battery I bought is https://www.vmaxtanks.com/assets/ima...0Discharge.pdf Are you saying the Sales Pitch is a lie? I think it is Sales Pitch because it is a benefit / upgrade over FLA battery. The facts are as they may be. We agree that 50% discharge is the threshold point, but what you may fail to see is due to capacity due to the military grade plates of my tanks; I can run 2 to 3 times longer before getting to that same point of discharge. Proof of that is in my earlier post, where I changed my AGS from 12.2 to 12.5 because I can run so long that by the time it may get to 12.5vdc; I will recharge. So I am well over the 50% threshold. To add to that benefit, I don't even get to 12.5vdc with my normal routine usage. I am normally at 12.9 vdc running all day or actually al night. So I see the power of both getting more cycles and the duration afforded to constitute one cycle. At the end of the day, and for reasons above and for number of discharge cycles; a Pure AGM is vastly superior to FLA.

https://www.vmaxtanks.com/SLR125-12V...tery_p_38.html

With all of that said, I do believe that when these batteries do age ( they say 8 - 10 years) but I will assume 7 years; at that point in time Lithium may be my choice as I assume issues that I view as a concern with Lithium in my application would have been mitigated, and be at a practical cost. But for now, I know better than anyone the REAL FUNCTIONAL differences between my former OEM SLA that I hated; to my current vMax tanks. Best $250 more I have ever spent

Note: I simply gave away the 2 very nice (for someone) OEM FLA. JM Juran taught that Quality is defined as "Fitnes for use" The Pure AGM vMax Tanks are night and day the best quality batteries I have ever owned. I will NEVER buy another FLA battery.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Respectfully, I will not extend my point into difference AGM (Pure or not) with Lithium because that is / was clearly NOT my point nor an option for me for many other reasons.

I cited above many advantages of my Pure AGM Vmax Tanks over the factory installed OEM FLA battery. It is night and day difference.

The Capacity to depth of discharge for battery I bought is https://www.vmaxtanks.com/assets/ima...0Discharge.pdf Are you saying the Sales Pitch is a lie? I think it is Sales Pitch because it is a benefit / upgrade over FLA battery. The facts are as they may be. We agree that 50% discharge is the threshold point, but what you may fail to see is due to capacity due to the military grade plates of my tanks; I can run 2 to 3 times longer before getting to that same point of discharge. Proof of that is in my earlier post, where I changed my AGS from 12.2 to 12.5 because I can run so long that by the time it may get to 12.5vdc; I will recharge. So I am well over the 50% threshold. To add to that benefit, I don't even get to 12.5vdc with my normal routine usage. I am normally at 12.9 vdc running all day or actually al night. So I see the power of both getting more cycles and the duration afforded to constitute one cycle. At the end of the day, and for reasons above and for number of discharge cycles; a Pure AGM is vastly superior to FLA.

https://www.vmaxtanks.com/SLR125-12V...tery_p_38.html

With all of that said, I do believe that when these batteries do age ( they say 8 - 10 years) but I will assume 7 years; at that point in time Lithium may be my choice as I assume issues that I view as a concern with Lithium in my application would have been mitigated, and be at a practical cost. But for now, I know better than anyone the REAL FUNCTIONAL differences between my former OEM SLA that I hated; to my current vMax tanks. Best $250 more I have ever spent

Note: I simply gave away the 2 very nice (for someone) OEM FLA. JM Juran taught that Quality is defined as "Fitnes for use" The Pure AGM vMax Tanks are night and day the best quality batteries I have ever owned. I will NEVER buy another FLA battery.

I'm intrigued but I do have a couple of comments:

1. I'm not sure what "military grade plates" means other than a marketing term. Does Vmax refer to any sort of military spec? They do seem to be heavier than a comparable set of golf cart batteries which is some indication of plate size but military grade?

2. You're comparing your time to a 50% of charge with new Vmax batteries to used FLA batteries, which are apparently dual purpose deep cycle/starting batteries. This is not an indictment of FLA batteries per se but an indictment of the dual purpose batteries typically installed in RVs.

3. I'd be more impressed if your comparison was to a pair of relatively new 6v FLA golf cart batteries.

4. I'm not denying your good experience but we need to be aware that it's anecdotal based on one person's experience. Out of 84 ratings on Amazon, four were one star, complaining that their Vmax SLR125 batteries died prematurely.

5. I'm in general agreement with your approach with respect to delay jumping to LiFePO4 batteries at this time. My FLA golf cart batteries are still plugging along. If they were to fail tomorrow, although I understand the advantages and economics of LiFePO4 batteries, I wouldn't make the jump to LiFePO4 but would consider replacing them in kind or moving to some form of 12V AGM true deep cycle batteries.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by BobC

I'm intrigued but I do have a couple of comments:

1. I'm not sure what "military grade plates" means other than a marketing term. Does Vmax refer to any sort of military spec? They do seem to be heavier than a comparable set of golf cart batteries which is some indication of plate size but military grade?

VMax Support is readily available by phone if more details are required, a real person answers. I must have made 3 phones calls doing my research and they answered everytime and every question I had. I ultimately bought from them directly. Their shipping packaging was beyond incredible. Both batteries were over 13 vdc out of the box!!! Context is everything. At the time I was hell bent on buying Duracell AGM from Sams (which still is an improvement over the the FLA I had). Military grade in this context is being used as Marketing, but there are specific Military specifications for batteries and the military is shifting to AGM. A 3rd party entity with best Military battery information is at https://www.pulsetech.net/media/wysi...P-May-2014.pdf

2. You're comparing your time to a 50% of charge with new Vmax batteries to used FLA batteries, which are apparently dual purpose deep cycle/starting batteries. This is not an indictment of FLA batteries per se but an indictment of the dual purpose batteries typically installed in RVs.

I agree I am comparing performance to my Dual Purpose OEM batteries; which I also view as a new RV!!! I noticed that I was getting less than 1/2 the rated amp hour capacity before a recharge was required at the 50% level. Plus all of the other negatives listed in my previous post. My goal originally was to try to wait 2 to 3 years and them dump the OEM batteries, but I could NOT take the corrosion, the watering and short ah power any longer.

3. I'd be more impressed if your comparison was to a pair of relatively new 6v FLA golf cart batteries.

I will be even more impressed if you can find me 6v FLA cart batteries that can handle 125 ahs each, NOT require water maintenance, and will fit in my coach? At the end of the day, I wanted a battery that can run a long time ( 1 day based on my normal usage) before requiring a recharge, will fit into my existing battery compartment, not require maintenance, and rated to last 8 - 10 years. I got all that with my VMax tanks Solar 125 ah each.

Note: vMax tanks sells a 6v Golf battery I looked at, but they acknowledged the Group 31 Solar was best power for what I saw and had same life of comparable cycles. At the end of the day I got 250 ah in that tight space and I saw no other option to get that type of power in my existing compartment.

4. I'm not denying your good experience but we need to be aware that it's anecdotal based on one person's experience. Out of 84 ratings on Amazon, four were one star, complaining that their Vmax SLR125 batteries died prematurely.

I have seen reviews where customers complained about a hammer they bought from Home Depot My favorite was a Husky pressure washer I wanted to buy and 1/2 the reviews blasted the Husky Pressure Washer? It was so bad I called Home Depot customer service and asked why it was still for sale? They stated a lot of people don't use the product properly. They reminded me that it came with a 3 year warranty and it was only $90; so I bought it. That was 15 years ago. That washer is at mom's house now and I use it every year to pressure wash algae off her brick and concrete. I only bought a new one (Stanley) 4 years ago to get a foamer and the quick disconnects.

I have had my new batteries only a few months, but I am with the 80 out of 84 on Amazon that are satisfied.

5. I'm in general agreement with your approach with respect to delay jumping to LiFePO4 batteries at this time. My FLA golf cart batteries are still plugging along. If they were to fail tomorrow, although I understand the advantages and economics of LiFePO4 batteries, I wouldn't make the jump to LiFePO4 but would consider replacing them in kind or moving to some form of 12V AGM true deep cycle batteries.

We agree 100% here. LifePO4 is the future and I thank the many that venture to it today that make a better tomorrow for us all.

See my comments. If more information is required, I will look up my paperwork and get the name of the VMax rep I spoke with. My intent here is NOT to promote VMax tanks; but to state my adamant belief that the Pure AGM batteries are better than FLA. The Duracell AGM is not a Pure AGM battery. When I started to learn more about a Dual purpose battery function it became clear why the regular AGM cannot physically perform the same as Pure AGM. I also like the fact that my Solar VMax tanks DO NOT have the car starting posts because my batteries will never be used for that purpose. I additionally see that as safer when moving wires around in an already tight compartment.

[BobC]

dkoldman-

Thanks for your response. Prior to your posting about them, I didn't know anything about Vmax batteries but I'll be putting them on my list and see how it goes.

[paof6]

Long story short you replaced the crap Dual Purpose 60ah OE batteries with a grade of battery several steps up. Comparing apples to oranges. You could have replaced the OE with almost any true Deep Cycle battery and seen a world of difference.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by paof6

Long story short you replaced the crap Dual Purpose 60ah OE batteries with a grade of battery several steps up. Comparing apples to oranges. You could have replaced the OE with almost any true Deep Cycle battery and seen a world of difference.

Short story even shorter.... You are preaching to the choir

Read 1st sentence in post #9 and then #11; I think you will find we both are in 100% agreement. Pure AGMs are vastly superior upgrade over FLA

[Elkman]

My Navion has a compartment that is large enough to hold two Group 31 size batteries. With a lead battery that can be discharged to 50% I have 125Ah available. With two lithium phosphate batteries that I can discharge to 10% SOC I get 225Ah of battery for the RV. For my use with the electric only refrigerator the extra 100Ah is worth the expense of the Lithionics batteries.

There is a decided benefit to being able to go twice as long before having to run the generator to recharge the house batteries and being able to run the generator only a third as long to get them recharged. If cost was my only consideration I would have bought a small travel trailer to tow with my SUV and saved $140,000.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by Elkman

My Navion has a compartment that is large enough to hold two Group 31 size batteries. With a lead battery that can be discharged to 50% I have 125Ah available. With two lithium phosphate batteries that I can discharge to 10% SOC I get 225Ah of battery for the RV. For my use with the electric only refrigerator the extra 100Ah is worth the expense of the Lithionics batteries.

There is a decided benefit to being able to go twice as long before having to run the generator to recharge the house batteries and being able to run the generator only a third as long to get them recharged. If cost was my only consideration I would have bought a small travel trailer to tow with my SUV and saved $140,000.

Eikman, I don't think any one questioned the longevity capacity of a Lithium battery. I think the subsequent posts are in reference to your statement that "AGM batteries suffer from the same limitations for discharge as flooded lead acid batteries and are hardly an upgrade"

The same argument you have just made about the capacity of Lithium over any AGM or FLA can also be made with a AGM over FLA.

But for me, the decided benefit is being able to go through a full night during quiet time (8:00 PM - 8:00 AM) without a need for a recharge. I can go 24 hours now with these new AGM batteries. The fact that I could have spent $1,000 or more for Lithium to double capacity again is not relevant for me; because I do not need to go 48 hours straight on batteries. If you read my earlier posts, I listed many other benefits of Pure AGM Deep Cycle over FLA beyond just cost.

Remember, I reprogrammed my AGS (EC-30) to recharge my batteries using the genny at more like 60% (12.5vdc by choice). So I don't even need to go down to 50%, which means simple SOC % is not the only factor; rather how long can the battery actually run based on actual demand needed? I could also make the argument that I prefer to run my Genny 1 or 2 hours per day ( to exercise) when truly boondocking; which is less than 10% of my entire time. As a practical matter my EC30 will come on every night anyway 2 hours before quiet time just to ensure batteries are topped of at 100%.

At the end of the day, my only point is that purchasing pure AGM Deep Cycle batteries is a significant upgrade over FLA at a fraction of the cost of Lithium; but again Lithium was not the discussion, nor my point of emphasis. We could start a new thread on Lithium versus Pure AGM Deep Cycle; and even if you took away the big negative of Lithium costs; I am not sure I would choose today's Lithium's over what I have now. In 6 - 8 years, Lithium may be better and cheaper than they are today. But IF PROVEN, they are better for my needs today at a reasonable cost; I can buy Lithium before these VMax tanks expire just like I did a few months ago when I replaced perfectly good FLA batteries before they expired for the Pure AGM Deep cycles. I now have a decided benefit as cost was also not the only consideration for me and my new 29VE

Note: Remember my post earlier that stated Quality is defined as fitness of use? If you need 225ah, Lithium may be the only practical choice you have that fits? But that fact (if true) does not mean that others can't experience a significant upgrade in battery performance and capability when they go from the OEM 60ah FLA to 125ah Pure AGM Deep Cycles.