Ford diesel issue

[highfeather]

Ford has a "customer satisfaction program" (NOT a recall) on the ERG. CSP # 18M06.
They extended the warranty to 120K miles and 11 years. But you have to wait for it to fail before they will replace it under the extended warranty. So you could have been seriously stranded! IMHO it's a very bad process for Ford to wait for you to get broken down in the middle of nowhere rather than just recall this as a defect and replace all of them. Customer Satisfaction? NOT!

[highfeather]

Couldn't find DEF, even at the "truck stops" in Trinidad, CO and knew I was less than 500 miles from the dreaded limp mode. Made one last swing through the truck stop exit and saw a flat bed pickup loaded with DEF! Followed him to the service entrance of the truck stop and he literally loaded me up with two 2.5 gallon containers before he even unloaded. I went inside with him and they scanned two containers; I paid and got on my way (I was only 150 miles from home) and filled up when I settled into my barn at home. I try to keep it topped off as I don't want to be limping along!!!!

[Dives2little]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

One of my concerns about diesel RVs has been the DEF getting old, which it does, and that can throw warning codes. An RV should use a fair amount of DEF given the load it is carrying, but I'd still be reluctant to fill the tank and instead only put in what you think you'll use in the next 4-5 months if not doing a lot of travelling. Also, buy your DEF at high volume locations, like Costco.

I keep my 10 Gal. DEF tank between 1/2 and full all the time. I also carry 5 gallons of "Walmart's Finest" so I don't have to deal with "limp Home Mode" when I run low. We have been in Willoughby (the Winnebago) for 3 years and 36,000 miles with no DEF issues. I will fill the DEF in the truck bays, if I have to, but if is inconvenient to fill the Diesel at the front and then move up to DEF at the rear.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by Dives2little

I keep my 10 Gal. DEF tank between 1/2 and full all the time. I also carry 5 gallons of "Walmart's Finest" so I don't have to deal with "limp Home Mode" when I run low. We have been in Willoughby (the Winnebago) for 3 years and 36,000 miles with no DEF issues. I will fill the DEF in the truck bays, if I have to, but if is inconvenient to fill the Diesel at the front and then move up to DEF at the rear.

Can't you prepay for both? I've done that before at Pilot/Flying J. They tell you which order to fill in, and off you go. DEF first, and diesel second, usually. If you want receipts, you have to go back inside to the truck desk.

Also, if you're in Texas, southern Alabama, or Florida, look for a Buc-Eees fuel stop - they have DEF at some/most of their non-commercial diesel pumps.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by highfeather

Ford has a "customer satisfaction program" (NOT a recall) on the ERG. CSP # 18M06.
They extended the warranty to 120K miles and 11 years. But you have to wait for it to fail before they will replace it under the extended warranty. So you could have been seriously stranded! IMHO it's a very bad process for Ford to wait for you to get broken down in the middle of nowhere rather than just recall this as a defect and replace all of them. Customer Satisfaction? NOT!

I looked this up online and it seems to apply to 2015-2017 Transit vehicles. I fail to understand why Ford would not consider this a recall since the issue looks to be serious and I would think it would be both safer and less expensive to just take care of all of them, but then fortunately I am not a businessman.

It is too bad that this does not seem to be the same issue I have as that would make fixing it quicker. The service guy tells me they don't really know what the issue with the diesel-DEF interface is and they will have to work it out with the Ford engineer.

He said it will work something like this. (1) Ford Engineer - "try replacing this part", (2) dealer orders part, service guy works on some one else's vehicle, (3) dealer replaces part when it arrives. (4) If it does not fix the issue return to step (1).

Oh goody.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

Also, if you're in Texas, southern Alabama, or Florida, look for a Buc-Eees fuel stop - they have DEF at some/most of their non-commercial diesel pumps.

DEF containers? Or DEF pumps?

I was just wondering if the DEF pumps click off when the DEF tank is full like the diesel pumps do.

As it is I refill our DEF tank when I see the 1/2 full message. I don't want to wait until it is lower just in case I can't find fresh DEF, and exactly that happened to me when I was driving in rural Nevada. All the diesel stations I stopped at either did not have DEF or the DEF was old enough for the container to be covered in dust.

I used to carry DEF with me, but I then worried that it would go bad sitting in the hot exterior compartment so I stopped doing that. Now I just try to stop at some Walmart when I see the low message.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by AJMike

DEF containers? Or DEF pumps?

I was just wondering if the DEF pumps click off when the DEF tank is full like the diesel pumps do.

As it is I refill our DEF tank when I see the 1/2 full message. I don't want to wait until it is lower just in case I can't find fresh DEF, and exactly that happened to me when I was driving in rural Nevada. All the diesel stations I stopped at either did not have DEF or the DEF was old enough for the container to be covered in dust.

I used to carry DEF with me, but I then worried that it would go bad sitting in the hot exterior compartment so I stopped doing that. Now I just try to stop at some Walmart when I see the low message.

Pumps. They also have a separate nozzle with "ethanol free" gasoline.
Some of the pump stands look pretty weird with so many nozzles on some of them.
Yes, the DEF nozzles stop when they sense "full".
I would have gone with the "old" DEF if the containers were sealed and not in direct sunlight. Not much else you can do, if that's all there is. Pray a DEF truck pulls in to drop off some fresh? Maybe?

[Dives2little]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

Can't you prepay for both? I've done that before at Pilot/Flying J. They tell you which order to fill in, and off you go. DEF first, and diesel second, usually. If you want receipts, you have to go back inside to the truck desk.

Also, if you're in Texas, southern Alabama, or Florida, look for a Buc-Eees fuel stop - they have DEF at some/most of their non-commercial diesel pumps.

I prepay both, when I'm buying both, I just hate having to fill up the diesel (motor off), restarting, and pulling forward. Then another shutdown and restart after retrieving the receipt; maybe a little lazy, too!

I try to avoid non-commercial pumps as they are a bit tight for our rig and I can't back up with the toad to navigate out!

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by highfeather

Couldn't find DEF, even at the "truck stops" in Trinidad, CO and knew I was less than 500 miles from the dreaded limp mode. Made one last swing through the truck stop exit and saw a flat bed pickup loaded with DEF! Followed him to the service entrance of the truck stop and he literally loaded me up with two 2.5 gallon containers before he even unloaded.

That's one way to get fresh DEF!

But is it possible to be more than 500 miles from either a Costco or a Walmart?

[Dives2little]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

That's one way to get fresh DEF!

But is it possible to be more than 500 miles from either a Costco or a Walmart?

Walmart in Farmington was out of DEF (theirs and Peak, both) and weren't sure when they would get it next. Went to Smith's fuel station and they were out. Bought the last 4 at O'Reilly; two in the tank and two in the storage. Apparently, we're working on a little shortage in New Mexico!

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by Dives2little

Apparently, we're working on a little shortage in New Mexico!

Odd, I know prices didn't fall as much on diesel as gasoline, but you'd think there'd be plenty of DEF. I wonder what caused that?

[Joe Newman]

DavidM,
We recently purchased a 2017 View—do you know where I could get more info about the problem you’ve heard about? Thanks.

[DavidM]

Joe:

It will take some digging. For your model go to https://sprinter-source.com/forums/i...hp?forums/105/ and look back a few years when these DEF and DPF posts started. The NCV3 Talk subforum is for your specific Mercedes chassis built from 2006 to 2018.

It seems that Mercedes has learned a thing or two and these kinds of failures have tailed off in recent years. I also suspect that the Fuse's engine being newer is going through the same learning curve.

David

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by Dives2little

I prepay both, when I'm buying both, I just hate having to fill up the diesel (motor off), restarting, and pulling forward. Then another shutdown and restart after retrieving the receipt; maybe a little lazy, too!

I try to avoid non-commercial pumps as they are a bit tight for our rig and I can't back up with the toad to navigate out!

I see you're a bit bigger than my Navion. Sorry, missed that part. I can do both fills without moving the rig. I've been lucky at the "out front" pumps, so far. Always have had just enough room to pull in, fuel, and escape, when towing.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by AJMike

I did that this morning and there are few of those in the more rural areas. I looked at the route we take to Bryce Canyon National Park and the only Ford Transit service centers along the way are in Phoenix and the closest to Bryce Canyon is in Salt Lake City.



I am sure you are right, but I also think there are probably more Ford dealerships that can handle diesels than MB dealerships that can handle them. I don't know about the particular diesels in question as I guess the Ford diesel is not a common engine for Ford. I do like the fuel economy but I begin to see the advantage of the gassers. Unfortunately I don't think WBO makes gasser Class C RVs.

Don't know how I missed this one. Kind of funny. In hindsight.
So there are more Ford dealers that can handle diesels, but there are only 2 that can do Transits, and they are hundreds of miles apart? In AZ and UT between Phoenix and SLC?
I see.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by Joe Newman

DavidM,
We recently purchased a 2017 View—do you know where I could get more info about the problem you’ve heard about? Thanks.

Try Mercedes-Benz Sprinter capable dealerships near you. Go and ask them about it. It's a problem that all diesels that have an SCR system that uses DEF can have or not. It's not just Sprinters, and it's not that common in them. There are just many more Srpinters out there than Transits. It's generally a luck of the draw situation that depends on all sorts of other factors, like fuel quality, DEF quality, oil quality, keeping the tanks topped up, driving habits, following maintenance schedules, ambient operating temperatures, and just about anything else you can think of when operating these machines. These systems got extremely complex when the SCR systems were first mandated, and they are more prone to failures as a result, all of them. It's the nature of the beast, and it affects all brands. Again, it's not "common" for Sprinters, in spite of what some have told you, except that there are far more Sprinter chassis in use in this size class C motorhome, than Ford.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

So there are more Ford dealers that can handle diesels, but there are only 2 that can do Transits, and they are hundreds of miles apart? In AZ and UT between Phoenix and SLC?

No. I don't think that is what I said, and it is not what I meant.

I checked the Ford Transit service centers and there are only those in the Phoenix area and Salt Lake City along the route we use when we go to Utah. But that does not mean that there are only 2 places where the Ford car dealer can handle diesels.

In this area one of the local Ford dealers is apparently the "go to" dealer for RVs, diesel and gas, but I don't think that means that it is the only dealer in this area that handles RVs, diesel and gas. I assume that there is some contract arrangement between our local RV dealer (LaMesa RV) and this particular Ford location, but I assume other locations also handle diesels. Perhaps LaMesa has a special discount from this dealer, or perhaps there is some priority arrangement.

This local Ford dealer also does oil changes for the MB chassis RVs and most of the regular local RV service locations (not the dealers, just the local service shops) will not touch them so it seems to be specializing in RV service. But I have no reason to believe that other Ford locations do not also service diesels.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by AJMike

No. I don't think that is what I said, and it is not what I meant.

I checked the Ford Transit service centers and there are only those in the Phoenix area and Salt Lake City along the route we use when we go to Utah. But that does not mean that there are only 2 places where the Ford car dealer can handle diesels.

In this area one of the local Ford dealers is apparently the "go to" dealer for RVs, diesel and gas, but I don't think that means that it is the only dealer in this area that handles RVs, diesel and gas. I assume that there is some contract arrangement between our local RV dealer (LaMesa RV) and this particular Ford location, but I assume other locations also handle diesels. Perhaps LaMesa has a special discount from this dealer, or perhaps there is some priority arrangement.

This local Ford dealer also does oil changes for the MB chassis RVs and most of the regular local RV service locations (not the dealers, just the local service shops) will not touch them so it seems to be specializing in RV service. But I have no reason to believe that other Ford locations do not also service diesels.

I was pulling your leg.
It sounded like you were challeinging your first paragraph with your second, and I thought it was amusing. Since I defend the "lack of capable service centers" for the MB Sprinter regularly, it struck me as funny that you pointed out the lack of same for Ford/Transits along your intended route.
p.s. If you're headed to Bryce Canyon NP, we're extremely envious.

[Rick 99037]

Originally Posted by AJMike

Yes. That is right.



My Google search for this problem turned up other instances, but I don't know if it is common with the Ford. I am hoping that if this has been seen before, then perhaps it will not take very long to fix. We have a tentative trip scheduled for September to either Utah or Texas and I would like to be able to take it.

One thing that does concern me is the cost of the fix. This particular case should be covered under warranty but if this problem shows up in another 25,000 miles it will be out of warranty.



Will do.

Often, emissions related issues have a longer warranty than the engine and drivetrain. Being DIF related, it is certainly an emissions equipment problem.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

If you're headed to Bryce Canyon NP, we're extremely envious.

We try to go every year.

When we went this year the North Campground, where we like to stay, was closed as they were paving the roads, so we ended up in the Sunset Campground. Neither of us really like that campground since it is a bit crowded and far away from the canyon ridge. Still, it was better than nothing.

We talked about going back since the North Campground is open again, the paving apparently being done, but since our RV is in the shop and we don't expect to be able to use it for another couple of weeks our second trip is in question. We generally try to avoid freezing weather, especially when dry camping, and you probably know how quickly it cools at night at Bryce Canyon. We just don't like to camp in the snow and cold.