House Batteries 18V24D - Page 2

LarryW · 06-21-2018, 06:18 PM

While three way fridges were common years ago, they are not now, SeetheUSA. Are you sure?

SeeTheUSA · 06-21-2018, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryW

While three way fridges were common years ago, they are not now, SeetheUSA. Are you sure?

I’m assuming the discussion was about power to a DE-0061, as in 12VDC as wired by WGO and perhaps 120VAC, maybe somehow made available

.... not anything about a three way.

SarahW · 06-21-2018, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeTheUSA

I’m assuming the discussion was about power to a DE-0061, as in 12VDC as wired by WGO and perhaps 120VAC, maybe somehow made available

.... not anything about a three way.

Exactly. Did you also make it available in your rig?

Kayak73 · 06-21-2018, 10:40 PM

FWIW, WGO only connects th 12VDC in the coach. There are several versions of this model. Apparently most of the DE0061R units did in fact ship with an AC cord as well, just not plugged up. No, WGO did not provide an outlet to plug the thing in. Imagination helps here, be creative. What works is, what does not is not. I have been told some units did ship with no AC cord on the refrigerator, can't imagine why. This unit is described in the manufacturer's literature as two way, 12VDC and 120VAC two way compressor refrigerator for mobile applications. Four hour generator run saves about 11 or more amp/hrs on the battery, should the magic plug have appeared and been utilized to operate the unit in designed mode.

Kayak73 · 06-21-2018, 11:18 PM

Now to modify the math for a generator assisted dry camp night. About 64 amp/hrs for the refrigerator and by dropping the humidifier level of CPAP a few percent I can save another 10 amp/hrs. That looks better but there will obviously be other items used as well in a normal evening. Looking better with a generator supplement of four hours so maybe 100 amp/hrs. However the design should be for non-generator use if possible and also allow some use of the features of the coach for comfort. I'll just stick to my original estimate of around 150 amp/hrs but with lithium 170 - 210 is easy on a 300amp/hr battery. On a wet cell I would stay above 50% discharge and hopefully around 12.2 or greater volts so it gets real spartan with wet cells. On a cold night the furnace might be needed (I like goose down) so you must add the overnight draw of the LP switch latch current and the furnace blower. There it is.

Kayak73 · 06-22-2018, 07:20 PM

We were at Costco today shopping and of course I browsed the batteries. Yes, those GC2 batteries I put in our last rig have had a price increase. Last year I believe they were $83 ea with core, today they were $93 with core. Noticed also these were clearly branded normal Interstate batteries with 210 amp/hours. Still a good deal for those with the proper equipment. I've had over 5 years in the past on those. I believe the guy said every battery had increased in price similarly and they dropped the Optima line completely. Nothing there for me just reporting the price hike, first time I've checked in a long while there.

LarryW · 06-22-2018, 07:23 PM

Were the Interstates 6 volt, kayak?

Kayak73 · 06-22-2018, 08:44 PM

Yes, GC2, 6vdc, 210AH

CharlesMoore · 06-23-2018, 05:50 PM

Super Capacitors or supercaps have been around for a long time. Check this out for augmenting your system in the future. I have been using multiple farad units and they allow hundreds of thousand of cycles. From what I see here cost is no object fut freedon is so look at this just for giggles.

Can Supercapacitors Surpass Batteries for Energy Storage? | Electronic Design

Cheers.

Kayak73 · 06-25-2018, 05:37 PM

Yes, cash does matter. Freedom as well, even after serving in America's most unpopular war I say freedom matters!

The thing that is nagging my brain is all the hits so far with this rig. Perhaps it will be a "short-timer" like one prior rig, maybe not. With that in mind I have spent some hours thinking, just like Old Crow recommended. Measured the battery tray, length is limited to 21.5" because the bottom of tray ends are turned up at 90 deg. Would need a cutoff of those ends and support added to go to a normal group 27 or 31 battery. Trojans, too tall. I'm being hard headed here I know. I have found I can mount two Lifeline GPL-4CT (220AH AGM)batts in the tray or two Duracell Ultra GC2 batts from Batteries + Bulbs (235AH wet). The Duracells are $130 each, made by Deka I believe weigh 68lbs each and measure 10.25L x 7.125W x 10.875H. Just barely fit, same for the Lifelines. Why WGO made the battery tray to fit only the group 24DCM I don't know but these two will fit tightly in series 6V. I'll play with the Duracells for a year and see what happens. Lot less hassle than Lithium, maybe I can squeeze by and everything will be good. The weight is a slight hit, the Duracells weigh 68 lbs each vs 42 lbs each for the dinky OEM NAPA set. Old Crow wins the thing with logic and reason. I know the Duracell is not a Trojan but they will work for now hopefully. The other option that can be done is mount one Lifeline GPL-31XT in the tray and mount another in the nearest storage bin and run the cables for a parallel connect which would give 250AH and at 74lbs each a total of 148lbs.

Tucsontoy · 06-25-2018, 05:50 PM

You have seen my pictures in my album where I fixed that battery box. The T-1275's are tall but they fit. When these die I will put one big lithium in that space. Already have a plan. Thinking out of the box, I will jack it up from the bottom and clap it in place. It will be this one:
https://nexgenbattery.com/shop/batteries/12v-300ah/

With my current modified box it will fit two series 31 batteries.

Kayak73 · 06-25-2018, 06:31 PM

Yep, with the bottom open you can get it in after your mod, then get it tied down. I'm thinking out loud but what happens when you are driving and the lithium reaches 93% SOC? The BMS shuts it down to prevent overcharge. Of course you can enclose the tray and insulate it with a heat pad for cold weather use. Yeah, the 1275s are not as tall as the T-145, just did not want to do that tray mod. Getting old and lazy.

Tucsontoy · 06-25-2018, 06:57 PM

I just went out and measured my modified battery box and there is 12-1/4" of height so the T-145's would fit as an option. I just went with the most amp/hours that would fit. Plus there is a lot of golf carts in Tucson and cart batteries are easy to find.

Kayak73 · 06-26-2018, 06:28 AM

Location, location, location! Real estate, shopping and batteries. Georgia has multiple locations which manufacture Trojan batteries. So California or GA, you would think I could pick up Trojans anywhere in my home state. Nope, drive to Nashville or Birmingham for the nearest warehouse delivery. Two local "dealers" who are not interested at all in selling them apparently. There are indeed golf courses in the area, quite a few but less than Arizona probably. So as a GA resident I get to pay a premium price for batteries manufactured in my home state. I'm lost on that logic. We have an Interstate shop, Costco and Sams and Batteries Plus all over and one single warehouse that distributes many brands to various stores. Brands like Northstar, Deka, US Battery for example. The warehouse is one of several of a multi-state warehouse outfit. Lifelines I can get delivered to the door. Many GC shops around the state which say they sell Trojan but just try and buy one from them - hey, we have ya-da-da brand etc. I agree when all is said and done if the first 5 months of ownership of this rig had been less problematic the darned lithium of some make would be in the thing right now. I'm accustomed to dealing with RV issues but if I had used the selling dealer the rig would have been in the shop the entire 5 months (and still not repaired). The service dealer I am using has worked with us to schedule time and we have left it there only 3 days for the refrigerator replacement and have been able to take short trips while waiting for parts etc. No problem at all on the Sprinter side of things so far though which is a big plus. I really think the years have added to my consternation and the desire to do some mods has just faded; I would like it to just be easy now and I know better, not gonna happen.

Phil G. · 06-26-2018, 01:01 PM

That NexGen NG300 LiFePo4 battery sure looks impressive but wow - what a price!

Winnebago provided pretty good room under the entrance step of our 2005 24V for the NG300 battery, or at least a couple of lead acid Group 31 12V batteries. As long as my batteries are specifically designed to be true deep cycle batteries, it doesn't matter to me if I'm using 12 volt or 6 volt versions. I just wanted to install the most AGM technology amp hours I could fit and afford without having to take up another valuable outside storage bay in addition to the under-step place for battteries as provided by Winnebago.

Here's what I currently have under the step, for a total of 230 amp hours - they're popular around the world (I didn't want to use Lifelines because my float voltage is a bit too high for them ... at 13.6 volts):
http://www.fullriverbattery.com/prod...eries/DC115-12

Kayak73 · 06-27-2018, 09:09 PM

OK, the LifeBlue 200AH lithium ion battery will FIT! No mods are required to the battery tray at all, even the OEM hold downs will work. Bam. Got excited because I can draw more AH (160AH is 80%, 140 will work most nights) from this thing overnight than from two T-1275's in parallel and no cutoff tool is needed. I probably will need to replace one cable, the POS cable from under passenger seat. AM Solar is now a dealer for them as well as StarLight solar. Sent info to them with all the specs of the rig, wait for a response to see if I spring on the cash. It sounds like a good compromise if they say it works given my electrical parameters. The BMS will prevent overcharge etc. and refuse to charge under 32*F. Sounds good, we will see. I might get them to replace the Zamp flexi panels with three rigid panels for me as well if time and appt. coincide.

Kayak73 · 06-28-2018, 07:07 PM

Well it just never seems to work. After speaking to one LifeBlue dealer and an email from another my assessment is "they are NOT ready for prime time" at least on my dime. There is always an "IF" a MAYBE and "you may have to manually control the alternator" or something which says my money is not going to a technology which is darn flaky right now for this application. With that in mind I reviewed Tucsontoy's album of the mod which I've looked at several times and with one change I like it. I will move the Litefuse for the inverter to the inverter side and put it in a box and pull the batteries together in the modified tray. The batteries - just today found a good golf cart company in a nearby town, 40 mile drive, with Trojan T-1275 in stock, $150 each with core plus tax. I can do that and deal with the weight penalty for now. Pick them up tomorrow. If the torrential rains of monsoon (am I back in SE Asia?) ever stop along with the incredible displays of electrical energy and boomers I think I can do this in a few hours with some thought and chasing down some new cables. Yeah, I checked my cutoff tool - still works, got wheels, air compressor monster in the shop is running fine. Analysis that matters: 1. I do some work

2. I will cut weight somewhere else - dog goes hungry

3. $1/AH vs $10/AH

My oldest boy agreed to come and help (he can pick up those monster 85lb batts). Just to prevent bad feedback - I will feed my dog, love my dog, that's a light statement, my version of a joke.

Almost forgot, the OEM batteries have almost died now. They will hold a charge but only carry a light load of the fridge for about 15 minutes now so that's a big indicator. If I remember in the past (5 months old rig) they started the day with full charge, unplugged from shore, and when solar output faded that day they ran the fridge about 3 hours before dropping below 12VDC. NO time to mess around with what might work, just dump in the Trojans and get on with life.

Tucsontoy · 06-28-2018, 08:21 PM

We think alike. I will look at lithium again in the future, but, not now.

If ya need to drop 150 pounds quick... leave da wife home.... Keep da dog... hahaha

Kayak73 · 06-29-2018, 10:53 PM

Yep, but if I left DW at home, home would be gone if I returned

After getting a detailed list of recommendations I will share what is recommended for the V24D to go LiION.
1. replace the PD9245 with Iota DS55
2. replace the Zamp controller with Victron MPPT 75/15
3. replace the battery isolator with Victron Cyrix-Li-CT
4. remove the Trik-L-Start because the voltage of the LiION is too high which means trickle charge for the chassis battery another way

As you can see it is not a "drop in" battery - yet. I really trust these recommendations from the source and now the two T-1275 monsters are sitting in the garage waiting for the sore back tomorrow AM after the chop and mod is done. Maybe 5-7 years from now when these bug out I will take another look at LiION, heck there may be a real drop in thing of some nature by then. BTW, I think the PD9245 should be a 55 amp anyway, even with the Trojans.

Kayak73 · 07-01-2018, 04:59 PM

Many thanks to Tucsontoy for leading the way with the Frankenchop on the View. It is done, looks decent, all working, back is sore. I left the Litefuse in the same location, worked there fine. I put aside the cut off tool after making a start cut for the Sawzall with metal blade. That thing went through the metal like melted butter. Then ground the edges fairly smooth. All in all it was a full day job for an old man, especially in the heat and humidity. I think we should be good to dry camp now! Oh, the only problem, crazy as it seems, was finding a 1/0 black cable with lug terminals - but I did locally, 36in, at Tractor Supply. It is all back together and ready to go.