Kwikee step issues

Slinky57 · 07-18-2021, 04:01 PM

Please help. Done everything on my series 32 kwikee steps. Electrical checks out okay. Steps are free, not binding. New motor, control board, gears are good. New chassis battery. Switches are good. Somehow the steps still don't always open or retract all the way. I have a 2001 Minnie Winnie 427P. Could the Taurus actuator be the wrong motor? Although, at times it works fine. Does the solenoid affect step operation? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Slinky57

Morich · 07-18-2021, 04:42 PM

Well, it sounds like you've done a lot but let me do some checks to be sure something not missed?
For ID, did you get this from the label on the steps as a way to be definite of the right info?
From there, have you done a search for troubleshooting charts. info on that series? In a quick look, I'm not seeing a definite answer to that one but perhaps you have gone further and got a better answer!!! But from there I might be inclined to do some calling to try to get a straight idea of where to find that info as it takes some study to find how different companies file info and how they expect folks to know how to find it!

A couple thoughts to run by are maybe some simple ideas.
One is that power is critical for the electronics to work right and then it can get into doing things the way the machine wants it done---even if it may not seem right to us.
Are you making sure the power from the battery is staying consistent and good, perhaps running the engine or using a charger of some sort to keep the start battery fully up?
I keep the RV here at home and plugged in as a way to make sure I keep both coach which is charged from converter being plugged into 30 amp outlet but I also add a jumper from coach to start battery when I do electrical work as a way to let power flow to the start when it normally does not from the converter. I do that rather than listen to the engine run all the time I'm working but I DO want the power to stay steady and good! Just a way to cut out one of the funky things that change electronics?

Reason for mention is your question about solenoid. If you mean the "mode solenoid" which connects start battery to coach battery at different times, the answer is "maybe".
This solenoid does connect them together when the engine is running to allow a small amount of charge to flow from the engine alternator/battery to the coach battery but it only does it as long as the engine is running or while we push the boost switch on the dash. So it "may" give more power to a weak start battery and fool us into thinking we have a good one when not true, but no major effect if the start battery is actually good and well charged. That's why I like to assure I DO have good battery to the steps as a first shot idea.

Works fine sometimes, fails other times? That might be as simple as a connection needing cleaned really well as those can vary from things as simple as temperature changes, so they are worth pulling connectors and making sure when things seem to change too often. Something as simple as vibration from the steps moving do a little shaking to make a funky plug give trouble?

I might check a few of those and then try for a really good troubleshooting chart as steps are quite a lot more complex that we first think. They have a mind of their own and it might be female!!!
Or it might be getting older like mine?

powercat_ras · 07-18-2021, 04:57 PM

you might substitute a toggle switch for the magnetic door switch and see if the intermittent is a flaky magnetic door switch. That's if you can reproduce the intermittent problem say it does not operate 1 out of 10 times, then you can substitute the toggle switch and do it about 20 times and see if it happens with the magnetic door switch out of the equation.

ko4nrbs · 07-18-2021, 05:23 PM

Mine did the same thing and it was the switches in the door and door jam.
Bill

Morich · 07-18-2021, 07:18 PM

While looking for full and complete info, we might ask for details on the complaint?
Nit picking, maybe, but did you mean the steps don't always open/close or is it that they start and then fail to go all the way?
Thinking of all the steps it takes to get them to start moving in or out as being a different setup than if they are moving and don't complete that move.
When dealing with things that are hit and miss on operation, getting as many small points out there can help.

Wayne M · 07-18-2021, 09:53 PM

Why didn't you get a Kwikee motor. The are about $75-80 and can be found on Amazon.

Slinky57 · 07-19-2021, 07:44 AM

I should have specified the steps work normally (usually when the battery is at max charge), but more often open or retract only partially. I'm currently trying to contact Winnebago to find out where fuses or relays might be located.

Slinky57 · 07-19-2021, 07:55 AM

Trying to provide all you helpful people with as much info as I can. I should have mentioned I have performed the checks in the kwikee manual. Everything checked out okay and so I contacted Lippert and they said it sounded like a bad controller. So I guess the controller maybe didn't need to be replaced, but oh well, what's another $300? Also replaced the mag switch as the instructions that came with the controller said the old one wasn't compatible. It tests okay. Motor I replaced was from advanced auto parts and looked identical and fit perfectly. It was listed as a 95 Ford Taurus window actuator. Grounds were all cleaned and checked.

Morich · 07-19-2021, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slinky57

I should have specified the steps work normally (usually when the battery is at max charge), but more often open or retract only partially. I'm currently trying to contact Winnebago to find out where fuses or relays might be located.

BINGO! Found something that I might be of actual help instead of just asking nit picking questions!!

Winnebago does actually do a really good job on some RV of posting online drawings with lots of details--if we are inclined to do that and that is one of the things I do have experience with doing. So here is the info I dug out.
These snips are from this drawing if you want to do more chasing on the original to better read or get more complete info:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...001/136616.pdf

Click these snips to get a better view.....

For those new to reading these charts, they are often way too big to fit on one page so they are laid out as a series of pictures which can be mentally laid side by side to trace the route of a wire from one item on a page over to the next.
The first thing I spotted was on page one where 1 and E might cross. The door step switch is found! So we can look at this wiring ID chart to find what wire does what for the operation:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf

MP is the ground, so we need to chase KD for power!

We can trace KD across sheet one frame two and find it ends on sheet one frame 3 (S1F3) where H and 12 would cross, near right end at top!
This can get tricky as we see KD go in but KA come out but the wire ID printed on the wire side would change to KA if we were looking there.
Now we can chase KA across on the same page to some of what we wanted to find. KA feeds power to the door switch from a plug at the chassis breaker panel on pin 1. If we have power there, we don't need to check more to find the fuse!
But if we do need to check further we SHOOULD be able to chase it to sheet 7 E2 but that has just empty space! The info is actually at the section at G5!
We always have to be aware that drawings are not always correct and Winnebago seemed to have more errors than many drawings. It is often there but watch for mistakes?

Final? The step breaker is a 25 amp in battery compartment at the center right of vehicle! But while there be aware of KE as run only power to a bunch of stuff and one of those is likely to be the step at some periods of it's operation!

Wow! What a trip, but maybe it help?

Wayne M · 07-19-2021, 09:47 AM

Wow, back in kindergarten learning my AKB's all over again.
Thanks for the info.

Morich · 07-19-2021, 11:32 AM

All of us folks who drive RV need to be able to read road maps and electrical drawings are much the same but each of the folks who write those maps use different methods, so sorting how to read the Winnebago map is a bit different and then I do find they have a fair number of mistakes to watch for along the way!

And I also find there are lots of things which still do not make sense when I read these things!

These are a couple head scratchers for me on this wire KE, I mentioned???
Are they speaking of the switch changing the radio power from start to coach battery? And if so how does the LR?LS wiring get involved as they relate to the mode solenoid?
Are mode solenoid control wiring, step wiring and which battery powers the radio, mixed in so way---- or is it a totally different switch somewhere?/?/
Anybody got a clue about the battery changeover switch?

Slinky57 · 07-19-2021, 04:13 PM

Thanks for all your help, everyone. Just started RV up with full charge on chassis battery and only retracted partway. I'll look over the diagrams to see if I can learn something. Not sure as my electrical knowledge is very limited. Winnebago says no fuses or relays on the step, only the circuit breaker, which I have pushed with no change in step problem. Maybe run a new wire from the chassis battery to the breaker?

Slinky57 · 07-19-2021, 04:31 PM

Just wondering if these steps maybe take the high torque motor?

Slinky57 · 07-21-2021, 01:13 PM

So, after a second call to Lippert, found out they had given me the wrong part number for my controller and so I bought the wrong one. No wonder it didn't work right! Also, I was informed that they no longer stock parts for pre-IMGL steps and so I would need an upgrade kit which they are sending. So, I spent about $350 on a new motor and controller which I won't need now, but I am getting a conversion kit from Lippert at no cost so figure I'm still coming out ahead. Thanks to everyone for your help, especially Morich, appreciate your time. I will let you all know how the new unit works after installing it. It should arrive tomorrow.

Morich · 07-21-2021, 01:37 PM

Sorry to hear the the report about bad info. That is one of the things which seem to be so unnecessary but more common than I feel good about.
One of the things that seem likely would have been one of the plugs not seated well, so that moisture/corrosion might have slipped in but the wrong parts will really mess with most things!!

For future parts on other things on the RV, this site might be a good one to keep:
https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/menu/Parts.htm

As always, we need to crosscheck when we can!

Slinky57 · 07-22-2021, 02:50 PM

The new conversion/upgrade kit arrived today. Took out the old unit, lubricated everything and connected all the wires and crossed my fingers. Everything works just as it should! I want to thank everyone for their input. Who would have ever thought Lippert would give me the wrong part. Oh well, live and learn. Morich, I will keep those wiring diagrams for future reference. I think I'll go outside now and just open and close the door just to watch it work correctly again. Thanks again, all! Hopefully I can help some of you in return someday.--Slink

RV Tinker · 07-25-2021, 06:47 PM

Thanks for the link to the parts catalog. I had an older paper catalog. Much easier with the electronic one.

Morich · 07-25-2021, 06:57 PM

For those who may not have found some of the good info Winnebago does put online, these are my "big three" for info and they have tons of good stuff.
PARTS:
https://catalog3d.winnebagoind.com/menu/Parts.htm

Plumbing:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...m/Plumbing.htm

Electrical:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ram/Wiring.htm

Sometimes we need the really basic stuff like--- do I have this.
But other times it may be as simple as --where is it?
And knowing which wire goes where can really help if we have the right year make and model to be in the drawings.

Best of luck on the searching for info!

Rich01 · 07-26-2021, 06:45 AM

I have repaired 4 of these on my various Class As.

MOST of the time, it is the motor, which is a $50 item from the parts house.
It is often a 1988 FORD Taurus , drivers side, window lift motor , but the mounting holes and mounting configuration varies , and can cause incompatibility.

On ONE Class A ....I accidentally found that the PIN from the motor assembly that connects to the steps , was binding , and caused EXACTLY what the OP describes.
I replaced it with a nut & bolt ( just slightly smaller in diameter ) and TOTALLY solved the problem.

The control units are pricey , and I have also replaced a few with DPDT / Momentary Contact toggle switches , in the stairwell to reverse polarity to the step motor.
THIS ... worked well.

Rich