Navion 24V Questions

[SarahW]

Originally Posted by Winterbagoal

Sorry I'm late, but I just spotted this topic in my weekly digest email.
My 2018 N24V low profile (or whatever it's called when you pass on the cab over bunk option?) has a macerator for the gray tank. There's also a low water drain with a plug underneath the rear end. I stopped at a local plumbing supply company and added an "emergency" drain valve with a 1" hose fitting, in case the macerator ever fails. I can use it to gravity drain my gray tank. Got the idea off a guy on irv2, or Sprinter Source, I can't recall, it's been a blur since we took delivery.
Have only had our N24V for just over 7 weeks, and haven't had a chance to live test everything yet in the real world. I'm hoping our fridge doesn't have the thermostat problem, and have it on on the driveway right now in "test mode" to see whether we have problems or not.
The OCCC on ours was less than we expected, even with no cab over bunk, the Truma AquaGo tankless WH, and the aluminum wheels. We did add the rear stabilizers which adds weight. That said, we've managed to load her up to travel, and still have enough GCWR to pull our 2016 JKU if necessary. We've actually tested that and it seems fine. The 3.0L turbo diesel and transmission combo seem to have plenty of pull on our "diesel puller".
Lastly, I'm planning on adding the 3rd solar panel someone mentioned, and upgrading the batteries at some point soon. I'm also planning on getting someone to tap the propane system and add a "Stay Longer" or "Extend-A-Stay" type T to it, so we can add propane to the system without moving the rig, and so we can run a BBQ grill off the on board supply. For reasons unknown, Winnebago didn't supply one from the factory. Maybe it's because of the tank location deep underneath in the bowels of the chassis. Surely they could have found some place else to put it, to give easier access to it.

I must be missing something on the hose fitting you added for the low-point drain. I thought the low-point drain was to empty fresh water pipes in the RV. So how would the gray water be dumped that way?

Glad to hear that you are happy with your 24V. I believe 2018 was the last year for the "low profile" model which is kind of a bummer if it's true. (Can't recall where I read that.)

What is your OCCC, if I might ask? Did you have the rig weighed once loaded?

Be sure to post pics of your propane system upgrade.

[SarahW]

Originally Posted by jcurtisis

Hello! We just bought a 24D and just love the tankless water heater (no problems- never out of hot water- no tank of water to lug around), the Norcold refrigerator is great- with the compressor you don’t need to be exactly level for it to work. Our carrying capacity is about 1200 pounds (not included is water tank weight). If you tow a car, the tongue weight is what counts against the carrying capacity- and it can tow up to 5000 lbs.
We don’t have a mascerator and I frankly don’t see the need.
We did put in a progressive industries electrical management system (vice the portable one you plug in outside the cabin). Be glad to show you pictures of how we installed it. I also got a Mercedes-Benz chassis battery trickle charger (but off of Amazon - much cheaper). I found the chassis battery kept loosing voltage and after just a few days it was below the recommended 12.2 volts. Now it is always at 13.5 and I never have to worry about it. I don’t think you need another solar panel unless you are dry camping a lot.
I suggest you look at the 24d because you get a whole lot more inside room (a couch!) and a much longer kitchen counter (space!) because the couch is a queen Murphy bed with access from both sides.
Last suggestion is to get dually tire stem steel valves in place of what comes from the manufacturer. It was SO hard to check the air pressure much less add air- but with them it is a breeze. $300 with labor included.

Thanks for the info! I appreciate hearing from actual owners. The trickle charger is a great idea.

We have looked at all the models and the one we prefer is the 24V. I am not a fan of the Murphy bed... or any convertible bed that has to be made up and taken down for use. Just a personal preference. We also like that the 24V only has one slide.

I had questions about the macerator because it comes standard on the 24V. I have since found that it's not so much a true macerator as it is simply a pump for the gray tank. I would prefer not to have it but apparently that's just they way the 24V waste tanks are situated.

The dually tire stems are definitely on our "must have" list.

[SarahW]

Originally Posted by Frederick

Sarah,

I am new to motorhome ownership, but not new to the issues that come with certain models. I have three friends that have the sprinter Chasse Navion 24. After watching them for the last few years I decided not to go that route. Instead I bought a Winnebago, Itasca, Sunstar 26HE with the Ford V10. The pros and cons are as follows.

Spinter = better mileage. Average of the three is 15 mpg if you keep under 65 mph. Over 65 mph mpg goes to 12 mpg.

Cons = high cost of maintenance. Fuel filters every 10,000 miles is about $250. Diesel fuel is rising in cost in the western states and is about .20 cents above premium. Oil changes every 5,000 miles is double the cost of a V10.

Cons = all three friends complain about the small shower. Two of the three are 6 footers like me and just use the outside shower. The refrigerators are small and the freezer is small. All three women complain about this and envy our standard size refrigerator freezer.

Cons = no storage space. I have built external storage racks on two of the Navions to accommodate needed storage.

Sunstar = pros.

Same length as the two Navions that I added external storage rack to the rear bumper frame mount. But, almost 50% more storage.

Shower is full size and separate from toilet. Toilet is simple straight dump. One of the Navions already had the macerator go out which was costly to repair., and another had the lift pump go out that is used to push grey water through the black water system to flush it. $$$$$$

Sunstar has high ground clearance. Easy to slide underneath and service everything. This is a plus for me as I do my own maintenance. The Navions are very low ground clearance. My friends who bought them did so to go to smaller music festivals where length is limmited in the smaller campgrounds. However? They have found that the smaller rugged campgrounds require a little higher ground clearance. So it’s a wash.

Sunstar has more internal living space and a bigger cockpit area. My friends that bought Navions thought the convenience of being able to exit the vehicle without having to walk through the motorhome would offset the loss of cockpit space. It didn’t.

Cons of the Sunstar = 10 mpg average compared to 15 mpg on the Navion. On a hard day of steep grades 10 mpg goes to 8 mpg. But, I bout my Sunstar gently used with 30,000 miles for $45,000. My three friends bought their Navions gently used with 30 to 40,000 miles on them for $75 to $80,000. That difference buys a lot of gas.

Con. Sunstar has a solid front axel. Nation has independent coil springs and drives like a 1 ton Chevy Silverado. Not really and issue until you hit old rough two lane highways with pot holes. I just slow down. I shouldn’t be in a hurry anyway.

So, for me, it was a question of bang for the buck and true cost to own. The Navions were just to small for me. I love the drive train. I actually own a 2006 Jeep Liberty diesel that I love the performance and I know I would love the performance of the Sprinter drive train. But all things being equal the V10 has more than enough power and I find that being able to take a real shower and have a real toilet that is simple to use and dump, and the Sunstar carries 60 gallons of fresh water compared to the Navion’s 35 galling, more living space and more storage I chose the Sunstar.

The only modification I made to the Sunstar was I built a custom rear bumper to hold my sewer dump hoses and fittings so I don’t have to store them I’m a compartment. But, I built the same bumpers for two of the Navions.

Hope this helps.

Thanks very much; I appreciate the pros/cons. Honestly, we are planning to downsize from our 34' Bounder and don't plan on buying another Class A. I like the look of the Sprinter models but we are trying to gather all the information we can about them before buying. If we decide to go with a gasoline Class C, we will likely be looking hard at Jayco/Entegra for their 2-year warranty and other features.

After owning a Class A gasser for 6 years, we know more about what we DON'T want in our next RV. I wish I could design my own coach with more quality appointments and not so many high-tech gadgets that just make it more complicated and expensive to maintain.

I know that buying a C after owning an A will mean getting used to smaller tanks, 30 amp service vs 50 amp, etc. So we have a lot to consider and I am very appreciative that so many of you have taken the time to share your thoughts and experience with me.

[Kayak73]

Just one more thought. Really. If you spend time in a rig like the 30ft Aspect you will know ONE A/C unit is not enough on a hot day. Really forced us to get rid of our Aspect 30 years back. One company I know will solve that for you, Phoenix Cruiser. They will add another A/C unit on top and convert to 50 amp service. Really thoughtful of them and I was torn when looking at the new View. I knew already the View was not well insulated at all and the air would run continuously in hot weather but we went with the 24D anyway. Shocked at some of the QC failures though, nothing like our previous View at all.

[SarahW]

Originally Posted by Kayak73

Just one more thought. Really. If you spend time in a rig like the 30ft Aspect you will know ONE A/C unit is not enough on a hot day. Really forced us to get rid of our Aspect 30 years back. One company I know will solve that for you, Phoenix Cruiser. They will add another A/C unit on top and convert to 50 amp service. Really thoughtful of them and I was torn when looking at the new View. I knew already the View was not well insulated at all and the air would run continuously in hot weather but we went with the 24D anyway. Shocked at some of the QC failures though, nothing like our previous View at all.

I totally agree about the single a/c. This week we looked at the Entegra Esteem Class C gasser (which is the same as a Jayco Greyhawk Prestige). It was impressive in fit and finish, has the option of two fully ducted 11k a/c units on 30 AMPS with EMS, and a 2-year warranty. Frankly, it is larger than I wanted at ~32', but a very nice Class C on the Ford E-450. The OCCC with the additional options (second a/c unit, cabover bunk and large refrigerator) is 1300 pounds and it has a 7500 pound hitch. (Not that we'd tow anything that big.)

I am really leaning toward the Entegra/Jayco at this point, but we're still researching and may end up keeping the Bounder for another season.

[WOODYDEL]

Carrying capacity a paltry 950 pounds! Two way refrigerator is the best, propane and 120 volt electric. Mercedes chassis are overstressed. You cannot put leveling on the chassis without voiding the warranty. Some have put STABILIZERS but not leveling except for Renegade. They claim their top of the line model over the Villagio has approval for levelers.


The highest make believe capacity that I have found is Tiffins new B. 1050 pounds but they added summosprings in the rear. That's a cheat.


I bought and now have parked in my backyard my Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 on a FORD chassis with the V10. I have the macerator for both tanks and both tanks have Sanicon flushing. I have the option with a manual valve to dump the tanks the conventional way. Either way works well. My coach is CUSTOMIZED to my specs and drawings.


However the basic model 2552 can be seen here: https://www.phoenixusarv.com/2018-Ph...552-10838.html Remember mine is customized and I have a Splendide washer installed.


My carrying capacity as built is 2914 pounds. I can tow 6000. Combined weight can be 22,000 according to Ford. My wheelbase is 205". Very small overhang. The tail does not wag this dog.


Sarah, you and I both are Bounder 33C aficionados. Somehow in the past I must have signed up for the Winnie newsletter and spotted your post. So I'm not here to pick on Winnebago products. Just don't like Mercedes chassis. They are weak. Diesel engines are nothing but a headache waiting to happen. Be forewarned.


Downsizing is really tough. My storage outside is approximately 1/10 of the Bounder.

[Old Crows]

Just a couple comments....

New Sprinters (after 2014) have had increasingly longer oil change intervals. The 'maintenance minder' keeps track of miles and time. It also monitors the quality of the oil so your mileage may vary from around 10K to 20K. Some, depending on use, may go longer before the monitor tells you to change it. Yes.... I KNOW.... people will be freaking out at 10K + intervals..... but... having performed oil analysis on two OM-642 V6 turbos @ 10K miles .... neither had any issues and the oil was probably good to go for another 5-10K. It is all about the oil. If you use the recommended 229,51/52 spec (required) you won't have any issues.

That's right... you pay a small premium for the MB approved oils but they do work. It is also important to NOT CHANGE the oil before she tells you to. Factory fill is designed to run all the way till the minder tells you. (Some still want to change at 3, 5K because that's what their Pap did. Not necessary. Move on to 21st century.

Gotta say maintenance on a Mercedes is not that much different than a Toyota, Ford, or Nissan. You can drop a grand on service in a heart beat.

Engine fuel filters are designed to last 30K. Not your average store brand item.

[Old Crows]

RE: AC requirements. Having had a Sprinter based Class B with a 9.2K BTU; a TT with something I don't remember; and now a View Profile with a 15.5K BTU Coleman Mach 8, I'll make a suggestion.

No matter where you are south of Toronto, you need BTUs to cool and dehumidify. You also need 'big' CFM air flow. You can't expect to cool/dehumidify a Class anything in Houston, DC, Atlanta, Florida, West Texas, New Mexico or AZ with a marginal BTU rating and low CFM. Just ain't gonna happen.

The more glass.... the more BTU you need.

Shading ALWAYS helps.... find shade... use it.

It's not about 30 or 50 Amps (although that's an important consideration). It is about sizing the unit to the need. Most HVAC units are just a bit undersized. You want the biggest, baddest hot climate BTU rating and the smallest power draw. The best any unit will do is to make a 10-15(maybe on a good day) difference in air temperature between the cold air duct and the return air.

I had Camping World change the Class B's 9.2 something to a 13.5 because it was 'unsafe' in our climate to try to stay in the spam can. Wouldn't leave MamMaw or the pups alone in that death trap. On a 100+F day the interior temp would be pushing 90F and high humidity. A set up for heat stroke. With a 13.5 & 300+ CFM, it would keep it safe (~85-87 and acceptable humidity) and hot but comfortable except in the direct sun (it was black and beautious!) The trick was to start building a 'savings account of cold air and taking the heat out of the interior fittings, etc., when the day gets hotter.

The 15.5 ducted in our 24G does just fine in any situation. Again, it's about BTU and CFM.

Insulation. These RVs are generally made with a laminated fiberglass/high density foam/fiberglass panels. They are about as insulating as you can get considering they are RVs. Roofs are fiberglass over thick Styrofoam. Pretty good insulation. Now there may be some areas where you could use more but it's going to get pricey ripping out and upgrading.

Here's the problem in cooling and heating an RV. IT IS THE WINDOWS!!! Glass conducts heat like nobodies business. Despite all the attention to insulation, you absorb/loose more energy through the glass & windshield. Black glass is the worst. Insidet will measure just about the same or more than the outer skin temperature in the sun. It will be near ambient in the shade. That heat radiates to the inside of the glass warming the air next to it. (In addition to solar radiation ... which doesn't even slow down!!!)

That now hotter air next to the window glass raises and creates a laminar flow upward. If you ever stayed in your Auntie's old house with the hot water/steam radiators under the windows, you get the idea. That air gets hotter as it rises and eventually spreads out in the RV (just like Auntie's house) and warms it. So you need BTUs to counter the heat gain and CFM to break through any stagnation that will layer the cold air above the hot air in the RV.

After spending a lot of time thinking and studying this problem in our Class B, the most cost effective solution is to use thermal resistant ceramic film on all the windows. Cuts the solar radiation and thermal radiation to the inside. If you have dark windows, use clear ceramic film. Windshield, use clear or very light tint. It should be invisible from several feet away. Door windows a light tint to pick up the 'theme' of the coach glass. (Yes... check your state regs for the windshield. But, you can always say.... 'came that way'... or you take meds that make you sun sensitive (true) ... or that it is a 'optional' ballistic film (which it is... same as used on buildings to prevent glass shattering injury. )

[SarahW]

Originally Posted by WOODYDEL

Carrying capacity a paltry 950 pounds! Two way refrigerator is the best, propane and 120 volt electric. Mercedes chassis are overstressed. You cannot put leveling on the chassis without voiding the warranty. Some have put STABILIZERS but not leveling except for Renegade. They claim their top of the line model over the Villagio has approval for levelers.


The highest make believe capacity that I have found is Tiffins new B. 1050 pounds but they added summosprings in the rear. That's a cheat.


I bought and now have parked in my backyard my Phoenix Cruiser model 2552 on a FORD chassis with the V10. I have the macerator for both tanks and both tanks have Sanicon flushing. I have the option with a manual valve to dump the tanks the conventional way. Either way works well. My coach is CUSTOMIZED to my specs and drawings.


However the basic model 2552 can be seen here: https://www.phoenixusarv.com/2018-Ph...552-10838.html Remember mine is customized and I have a Splendide washer installed.


My carrying capacity as built is 2914 pounds. I can tow 6000. Combined weight can be 22,000 according to Ford. My wheelbase is 205". Very small overhang. The tail does not wag this dog.


Sarah, you and I both are Bounder 33C aficionados. Somehow in the past I must have signed up for the Winnie newsletter and spotted your post. So I'm not here to pick on Winnebago products. Just don't like Mercedes chassis. They are weak. Diesel engines are nothing but a headache waiting to happen. Be forewarned.


Downsizing is really tough. My storage outside is approximately 1/10 of the Bounder.

Hey Woody; nice to "see" you and thanks for the info on the Phoenix Cruiser. I have looked at their website, and the Coach House RVs, too. Yep, we're still hangin' with our Bounder and honestly have had no issues with it to speak of. I'm annoyed to find a couple of the double-pane windows are getting a little hazy and the captain's chairs have started "delaminating" from the fake "leather." But other than that we can't complain about the Bounder. All mechanical systems (engine, slides, a/c, vacu-flush, etc.) are working as well as they ever have.

I know it will be a challenge to downsize, but we are 'occasional RVers' and usually take trips of 2 weeks or less so I'm thinking a smaller RV will be fine for us. I have learned over the years that we drag around about 75% of "stuff" that could safely be left at home.

One of my biggest concerns has been the Mercedes diesel... service, maintenance, cost of repairs, etc. I wish there was a gasoline Ford small C that was as aerodynamic looking as the Sprinter. (Not that new little Ford diesel!!) One of my issues with C Class RVs is that they never seem to update the "style" and they all have that cumbersome, top-heavy look.

At any rate, we are just kicking tires and studying the pros/cons of each model. Right now the Entegra Esteem is edging out the competition, but we'll see.

[frooms01]

A friend of mine had a macerater on his coach and this is what happened. Someone put a singlefold paper towel down it like the old blue ones you would use to wash your windshield. When it hit the screen in the system it plugged it like hanging a wet paper towel on a window. You can only imagine the clean up.

[SarahW]

Originally Posted by frooms01

A friend of mine had a macerater on his coach and this is what happened. Someone put a singlefold paper towel down it like the old blue ones you would use to wash your windshield. When it hit the screen in the system it plugged it like hanging a wet paper towel on a window. You can only imagine the clean up.

I think I'd rather not imagine it!! Luckily, the macerator on the 24V is a pump on the gray tank!

[Kayak73]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

RE: snip
Insulation. These RVs are generally made with a laminated fiberglass/high density foam/fiberglass panels. They are about as insulating as you can get considering they are RVs. Roofs are fiberglass over thick Styrofoam. Pretty good insulation. Now there may be some areas where you could use more but it's going to get pricey ripping out and upgrading.

snip
After spending a lot of time thinking and studying this problem in our Class B, the most cost effective solution is to use thermal resistant ceramic film on all the windows. Cuts the solar radiation and thermal radiation to the inside. If you have dark windows, use clear ceramic film. Windshield, use clear or very light tint. It should be invisible from several feet away. Door windows a light tint to pick up the 'theme' of the coach glass. (Yes... check your state regs for the windshield. But, you can always say.... 'came that way'... or you take meds that make you sun sensitive (true) ... or that it is a 'optional' ballistic film (which it is... same as used on buildings to prevent glass shattering injury. )

I've gotta say I was spoiled with our DP rig and two A/C units and pretty good insulation. On our new View the overhang does protect the windshield a lot from direct sun. We ordered a ShadePro see through in daytime solar blocking cover for windshield, had one on last View, love it. It helps. I am adding insulation where I can, against the walls in cabinets, behind the fridge, behind the pantry, in the closet - you get the picture. Easy to grab those areas. I agree on ceramic window film. Installed already on the rear window. The slider windows - doesn't work so good. On our first View I put a window awning outside, loved it. I might add that on this View as well after I finish other mods and get a 4 wheel weight done loaded for travel. If your rig has awning style windows the ceramic film is great. So far we haven't hit the super hot days of 100+ but have hit 90's a few days and the A/C is holding us cool around 74*F, pretty decent. The fixed side of the big windows is next for ceramic film, the 24D has BIG windows.

That's to keep heat out! Then I will work on keeping heat in underneath for cold weather camping. Always fun to keep working on these rigs.

[NYBobbo]

QUOTE=WOODYDEL;3815653]. Mercedes chassis are overstressed. You cannot put leveling on the chassis without voiding the warranty. Some have put STABILIZERS but not leveling except for Renegade

[/QUOTE]


I have a Winn View with levelers by HWH - The leveling system does NOT void warranty.

[luvlabs]

What will void the warranty if you add levelers is if you drill holes anywhere in the frame. HWH, Big Foot, and all the others developed for the Sprinter Chassis do not require drilling. They clamp to the frame members instead.

[WOODYDEL]

Stabilizers are NOT LEVELERS. The Mercedes chassis is the most overloaded of them all. Try to find the wet weight for Winnebago Navions. You won't. Because if you did, you would then realize you can't carry more than 940-950 pounds and that is including YOU as part of that rating. Add a trailer with a 500 pound tongue load and don't bother bringing any food or clothes.


I believe the Mercedes chassis is used so people can puff out their chests.


Bottom line, you install REAL LEVELERS and the chassis will break. Mercedes knows this.


There is another problem. See the carrying weight above? Well after the LEVELING system is installed, your carrying capacity WILL be approximately 800 pounds. Just because some company states their system can be installed without drilling welding etc does not mean the chassis can take the stress of the oftentimes twisting of the chassis due to improper use of the leveling system. Like lifting completely off the ground as I've seen many people do routinely.


A link to a video about STABILIZERS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxF9LD1ntWA

[luvlabs]

Woodydell,

Want to share with where you have gotten the information that you base your opinions on? According to your profile, you don't own a Sprinter chassis motorhome or even a Winnebago.

I've personally never heard of anyone "breaking their chassis" so maybe some data/pictures would help. These little motorhomes are pretty stout when it comes common mistakes like overloading.

[SeeTheUSA]

Opinions are like .... well, you know.

[Old Crows]

Originally Posted by WOODYDEL

Stabilizers are NOT LEVELERS. The Mercedes chassis is the most overloaded of them all. Try to find the wet weight for Winnebago Navions. You won't. Because if you did, you would then realize you can't carry more than 940-950 pounds and that is including YOU as part of that rating. Add a trailer with a 500 pound tongue load and don't bother bringing any food or clothes.


I believe the Mercedes chassis is used so people can puff out their chests.


Bottom line, you install REAL LEVELERS and the chassis will break. Mercedes knows this.


There is another problem. See the carrying weight above? Well after the LEVELING system is installed, your carrying capacity WILL be approximately 800 pounds. Just because some company states their system can be installed without drilling welding etc does not mean the chassis can take the stress of the oftentimes twisting of the chassis due to improper use of the leveling system. Like lifting completely off the ground as I've seen many people do routinely.


A link to a video about STABILIZERS.

Well now! Pretty much RUBBISH TALK! Was going to open the 'School House' but decided it's more productive to get a Shiner Bock and enjoy the fine Texas weather..... Maybe dinner at Chilies later.

[Kayak73]

There must be a whole bunch of broken Sprinter chassis rails running around the USA because a whole bunch of owners have HWH levelers installed...just sayin. Now, talk about a REAL chassis breaker and that would be our last DP rig where Tiffin drilled a rebound strap mount for the rear axle on the outside flange of the C channel chassis rail. Several reported broken, extensive repair. Ours did not break but they did preventive maintenance for me to prevent the failure...and I dumped the rig before it could happen. Stuff happens in the world of RV ownership but I have never once read a report of a broken Sprinter chassis because HWH levelers were added. It is a moot point for me because I have the stabilizer jacks and two packs of plastic legos. Good enough.

[Winterbagoal]

Originally Posted by SarahW

I must be missing something on the hose fitting you added for the low-point drain. I thought the low-point drain was to empty fresh water pipes in the RV. So how would the gray water be dumped that way?

Glad to hear that you are happy with your 24V. I believe 2018 was the last year for the "low profile" model which is kind of a bummer if it's true. (Can't recall where I read that.)

What is your OCCC, if I might ask? Did you have the rig weighed once loaded?

Be sure to post pics of your propane system upgrade.

Sorry, errant semantics. It has nothing to do with the fresh water tank. It's a low point clean out for the gray tank with one of those square headed threaded plugs in it - for emergency dumping. I called it a low point drain, because you can remove the plug and let the gray water drain out of the gray tank onto whatever you happen to be parked above. Or, you can install a DIY valve and male 3/4" garden hose threaded connection that you attach a garden hose to, to direct the gray water to a nearby dump station hole or other appropriate sewer location. If the gray tank waste pump fails.

I called it a low profile. It used to be called the IQ model.
With the late model Navions, the cab over bunk is actually the option. If you don't want or need the extra bed (we figured it would be like a garage, collecting junk) don't get it as an option, and what you'll get is a Navion without the protruding forehead, with a large skylight forward facing window (with manual privacy blind) which follows the slope of the windshield up to the roof, instead of the bunk bed. We like the streamlined look, and it's actually functional in that respect. Less wind resistance than with the cab over, and Winnebago engineering told me it cuts about 120 lbs of GVW weight to skip the cab over bunk.

I think the OCCC was around 1249 lbs. - we added the stabilizers (I wish we hadn't now) which adds weight and I doubt they'll see much use, but we thought they might help if we decided to park it somewhere for more than a day or two. In hindsight, I should have skipped them and got after market hydraulic leveling jacks instead.

Yes, there are free government highway scales a few miles away. I know exactly (within ~10kg.) what we weight loaded. I weigh our Jeep there, as well.

If you're serious about getting a View/Navion, download a brochure from the Winnebago website. The section at near the end of it has all the standard equipment listed along with the optional stuff. It's where we started.

One more thing. I can't complain about the fuel economy with the MB V6 3.0L turbo diesel, after downsizing from a 2016 Sunstar 26HE, with the V10 and the 6 speed transmission. The Ford was noisy, the doghouse was a pita to negotiate, and it was a gas guzzler, at any speed and under any road and weather conditions. If I'm "gentle" with the throttle on the Navion, at 62-65mph, I'm getting just over 15 mpg, drop down to 55mph and it jumps to around 16+mpg, and at suburban roadway speeds, under 50mph, 17 and up mpg. If fuel economy might affect your choice of drive train. Old Crows made all the points about the maintenance, and he knows that aspect of it. I'm still waiting for the Navion to tell me what it needs or when it's time to change the oil. So far I've only added wiper washer fluid, diesel fuel, and DEF, and that was inexpensive truck stop bulk stuff. Power-wise, it has plenty when we're loaded and almost too much when we're not. It climbs hills effortlessly, and that was a surprise. I wasn't sure it was enough engine when we bought it, but it is.