2020 Micro Minnie 1700BH Lithium Conversion

[Kevin77]

So I think I have read too much about upgrading to lithium and have twisted myself in knots on what I actually need.

I am frustrated with my LP/electric fridge and two separate techs can't determine why it won't cool. Instead of spending more money on techs, I'm looking at purchasing a 12V fridge. I usually boondock once a year for a week where generators are not permitted, and having lithium and increasing AH would help me, and allow me to boondock more often. I have a 100w suitcase panel but would either daisy chain a second panel or eventually add rooftop panels.

Barebones, is there anything I would need to do outside of changing the power center? I see there is now a lithium auto-detect version of the existing power center (WFCO-8955), which would seem to allow me to do a more straightforward swap. I don't need 110v power when I am boondocking.

Thank you

[creativepart]

Basically, adding a Lithium capable Converter (which is what you are referring to as the Power Center) is likely all you would need.

Adding solar is a nice addition but not absolutely necessary. However, when boondocking for a week you will need something more than 100w of solar to keep your batteries charged over that long of a period of time. Something like a 2000w+ portable generator would easily do the job and give you other benefits as well.

I suppose you could add enough battery amps hours to run the fridge for a week but we're talking a big expense. It's much more affordable to carry a small generator and a little fuel to take care of the recharging you'll need.

If you were boondocking 2-3 days, you'd probably do OK but you'd need the solar and some good sunny days.

[Kevin77]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Basically, adding a Lithium capable Converter (which is what you are referring to as the Power Center) is likely all you would need.

Thank you. So instead of replacing the whole power center I could just swap out the converter.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/prod...rter-chargers/

Originally Posted by creativepart

I suppose you could add enough battery amps hours to run the fridge for a week but we're talking a big expense. It's much more affordable to carry a small generator and a little fuel to take care of the recharging you'll need.

If you were boondocking 2-3 days, you'd probably do OK but you'd need the solar and some good sunny days.

I may need to rethink then. Where I go doesn't allow generators, but there is usually plenty of sun.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Kevin77

Thank you. So instead of replacing the whole power center I could just swap out the converter.

It depends. Some Converters are built into the Power Center as one unit. Other's the Converter is separate behind the Power center and a 3rd kind sometimes have a separate charger.

You might ask WFCO or do some searching on YouTube, you might find someone that's done this change already. Maybe not with your RV, but it will still show you what to expect.

[Marine359]

If you switch to a 12v fridge, you will need to replace the 800wh per day that the fridge consumes. IMO, it’s not absolutely necessary to replace your WFCO. By adding solar, you gain the ability to charge a lithium battery faster and more fully than an old WFCO can do on its own. Besides that, the WFCO needs a ac source (shore power) to do anything. Instead of, or in addition to solar, you might want to consider adding a dc to dc charger. This device will charge your battery at 500w or more while you are driving if you have a suitable alternator (200 amps best) But before you make a decision on what battery and solar to get, consider getting a powerstation for all your needs. Their price has dropped pretty dramatically in the past year, as has the price of LiFePo4. The big kahuna of powerstations is that they give you everything rolled into a single portable unit: LiFePo4, inverter, solar charging, and both ac and dc output. Pairing a powerstation with a LiFePo4 is an even more powerful combination. First determine how much power you want to use each day (both ac and dc), then match budget to sizing and go from there. If you don’t use much ac power while boondocking, it’s very possible to get along with just a single 2000wh powerstation, which are now under $1,000. With a powerstation, you won’t need to buy a solar charge controller, shunt, or inverter. And when you’re not using it camping, you can use it at home, because installation takes seconds, and taking out takes seconds. A powerstation with 30 amp dc output can easily power a 12v fridge and all your other dc loads for a couple of days with no sun. 400w of solar will be enough to replenish what you use. Additionally, if you’re boondocking a lot, you won’t have access to an ac source to drive the converter/charger, unless you use a generator, and who wants that? More battery capacity equals longer and better quality boondocking.

[eatSleepWoof]

My 2022 2108FBS came with a 12v GE fridge. It consumes a massive 13ah.

I have 200ah in my setup. We tend to set up camp around 2-4pm on "day one," and by 8am the next morning we have anywhere from 60% to 40% battery charge left.

That is to say, 200ah can give you a "safe" 24hour run time, but not much more than that.

Keep in mind that I have the original 200w solar panel on the roof, which contributes a bit of charging here and there.

To go a week with a 12v fridge, you will absolutely need to recharge from an external source. Unless, of course, you start out with an absolutely ridiculous amount of battery charge (800ah+) and supplement it with a similarly ridiculous amount of solar.

I recharge by idling my tow vehicle. It's much, much quieter than any generator, and no matter where you camp, there are no rules against idling your vehicle any time of day . The DC/DC charger that I installed gives me 40ah, so anywhere from 2-3hours of daily idling has me at full charge.

I did recently pick up a generator (as much as I hate the damn things), and am experimenting with various sound-deadening boxes to make it less obnoxious. Some decent results with that. (Everything towards the end of that thread I linked above.)

If you do insist on swapping to a pure 12v fridge, consider a non-mainstream option, and focus on efficiency. There are plenty of "overland" style fridges which are HUGELY more economical (in terms of electric consumption), and can greatly extend your battery run time. NorCold, Unique (and plenty of other brands) may have some upright options that would work.

[Marine359]

Must be a typo. 13 amp hours is just 156 wh. Not massive. If that’s a daily number, anyone would die for it. If that’s watts/ hour, then that equals 3,744wh per day which is massively ginormous, and almost twice as much as a home ac fridge/freezer There’s got to be something wrong with your fridge. My Dometic 4100 series 10cuft 12v fridge never, even in the hottest ambients, used more than 900wh per day.

[eatSleepWoof]

No typos. 13ah is the consumption stated on the sticker inside the fridge, the official manual, etc. Nothing "wrong" with it, it's just a horrible appliance.

Obviously the fridge will cycle, so it won't draw 13 amps per hour 24/7, but it does draw 13 amps per hour of running. It's a huge power hog.

[tinglett]

Originally Posted by eatSleepWoof

No typos. 13ah is the consumption stated on the sticker inside the fridge, the official manual, etc. Nothing "wrong" with it, it's just a horrible appliance.

It may be 13ah @ 115v. That's where quoting watts is a little easier. This would be 1495wh which would be about 113 ah @ 13.25v. That sounds like it's in the ballpark of what you are burning.


[Edit: though I realize just now that the "continuous draw" is probably the real explanation as you just said. Perhaps they really just meant to say it has a 13a draw]

[eatSleepWoof]

https://www.geappliances.com/applian...tor-GPV10FSNSB

13.5 amps at 12v.

[tinglett]

BTW, my opinion is that you should stick with the absorption fridge if you really need to boondock for a week. Maybe you need to bring it somewhere else for repair? I'm fortunate enough to say I haven't had trouble with ours yet. Hopefully I didn't just jinx it.

1kwh of solar per day will be tough. I have 300w of solar and I can get a decent % of that when parked in the open on a very sunny day. But most of the the time when we are camping we are in the woods. Then you basically get nothing.

[eatSleepWoof]

@tinglett - are you on Mud? You should be. Haven't seen you in the 200-series section!

[Fred L]

Had to laugh at the comments section for the GE fridge that ESW posted. I despise GE and just one more confirmation.
Always wondered if the 12v fridge was paired with the same mentality of eliminating gas ranges in the home.....

[eatSleepWoof]

Originally Posted by Fred L

Had to laugh at the comments section for the GE fridge that ESW posted. I despise GE and just one more confirmation.
Always wondered if the 12v fridge was paired with the same mentality of eliminating gas ranges in the home.....

Basically everyone hates these fridges. No surprise there... GE.

Compressor fridges have been 100% the norm in "overlanding" circles for decades; I myself have had 4-5 different ones from ARB, Dometic, Unique, random Chinese clones, etc. They all worked amazingly well and were very, very efficient. For instance, my 63QT ARB fridge could run 24hours off a normal, 50ah NorthStar AGM in Death Valley heat. That's just sitting in a truck bed (canopy), without any surrounding insulation/climate control/etc.

Compressor fridges are also de-facto industry standard in all high-end trailers in places like Australia. It's just us in North America shelling out $50-150k for trailers that still utilize 40 year old appliance tech. They build trailers very differently there, because people don't put up with the kind of crap that consumers over here are happy to take.

And I say this as someone that absolutely hates the "replace your perfectly functioning, normal, efficient and reliable gas appliances with electronic trash" movement.

On the upside, the fridge does cool very well and very quickly. Way faster than any absorption fridge.

[Marine359]

Don’t know when WBGO switched to GE compressor fridge. My MM built in Sep 2021 had a Dometic 4109 series 10cuft compressor fridge . Loved that fridge! It was pretty miserly, chilled down in 30 minutes, and never ever burped. Ice Cream in Death Valley, yeah. It did fall out of the cabinet, but kept on working. Now I’ve got a 32L compressor fridge that uses only 350wh per day. Will be switching to a 35L Dual Zone Iceco soon with industry best compressor.

There are big time defenders of absorption fridges, and they are entitled to their opinions. But IMO, after camping with absorption for 40 years, they all pale (don’t want to use the “s” word) compared to good compressor fridges. And don’t let anybody tell you absorption fridges are better for boondocking. They’re not. The difference is, you’re trading electricity for propane. You just need enough el3ctricity to keep it running, which is not all that much. 400w of solar and 2kWh of LFP conquers that beast. And you’ll probably want that stout of an electrical system for boondock8ng anyway, some folks are proud of living in the past. And that’s ok by me as long as they’re happy.

[Sierradave]

IMHO - Jim Former has the right ideas. I use a powestation with two portable 100 watt solar panels coupled with three 100 watt roof-mounted solar panels tied into two 100 amp hr lithium bats. On sunny days I’m fine.

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by Sierradave

IMHO - Jim Former has the right ideas. I use a powestation with two portable 100 watt solar panels coupled with three 100 watt roof-mounted solar panels tied into two 100 amp hr lithium bats. On sunny days I’m fine.

Your setup almost the same as mine when I had a MM. 2,000wh LiFePo4 and 2,000wh powerstation with three CIGS on roof, and two 100w portables. In my new rig, I still have the powerstation from the MM, and added a 3,800wh LiFePo4, 2x 200w fiberglass panels, and one 100w portable. Plus a 300wh powerstation for a total of over 6kWh. I’m full-electric now, no propane.

[Fanrgs]

And mine! 350w of rooftop solar, 100w of portable panels, and two 105A-h Li batteries. Runs my Norcold 12v fridge with no problems when boondocking. It cools down in a few hours enough to keep ice cream frozen in July heat (no milkshakes instead of ice cream!). And we dry camp and boondock at least a few times on every long trip. In fact, our propane generator has 17 run hours, one hour of which was battery recharging after a two below freezing August nights in a shaded USFS cg. at 10,000'. The rest of those run hours are to periodically exercise the gennie.

No more leveling the fridge, no more shading the fridge vents or keeping those vents always facing north, no more 12v fans on the coils to help vent it or inside the fridge to circulate air, no more burner outages at 10,000', and no more turning it completely off in tunnels, on ferries, or when refueling!

In case you still don't understand, we LOVE our 12v compressor fridge and will NEVER go back to an AC/LP fridge!

[No1Hunter]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Your setup almost the same as mine when I had a MM. 2,000wh LiFePo4 and 2,000wh powerstation with three CIGS on roof, and two 100w portables. In my new rig, I still have the powerstation from the MM, and added a 3,800wh LiFePo4, 2x 200w fiberglass panels, and one 100w portable. Plus a 300wh powerstation for a total of over 6kWh. I’m full-electric now, no propane.

No propane?? So, you have an electric cook top and/or range running off your batteries to prepare meals?

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by No1Hunter

No propane?? So, you have an electric cook top and/or range running off your batteries to prepare meals?

No combustibles of any kind. No propane, no diesel heater. Just some wood for the fireplace. I have enough battery capacity to last several days with no sun. Even use electric to stay warm. Electric thin-film infra-red sub-floor, electric mattress warmer, electric blanket, electric PTC heater. I cook with an induction cooktop, electric kettle, and electric rice cooker. When I’m feeling goofy, I’ll cook something in my air fryer/microwave combo. But, I’ve been known to cook steak and beans on the campfire. Installing my electric window A/C now.

Recharging is simple with 400w solar and a dc to dc charger.
Toting 6kWh of capacity. On a normal day of boondocking, I use about 1.5kWh. So all the rest is for reserve in case the sun don’t shine for a few days. If that happens, I’d have to start up my truck. Oh, I never use pay campgrounds.

Yup, that me after cooking steak on the campfire, and summiting 12,000ft Ophir Pass in the San Juan’s. Life’s good on full electric, and costs way less.