Convertor for Lithium 2023 Minnie 2801bhs?

Crispie0206 · 02-28-2023, 06:41 PM

Hello everyone, we just purchased a 2023 Winnebago Minnie 2801bhs. I already bought a 12V 100ah Dakota lithium battery for it. The dealer says we need a new convertor to charge it properly and they can put one in for about 500 dollars. Does anyone know what the convertor model is that comes in our trailer? Model number? I'm new to lithium batteries and want to make sure we need the new convertor and we aren't getting ripped off by the dealer. It seems some trailers already come with a lithium capable convertor. The reason I don't know the model is because we are picking it up Saturday. Thanks in advance for the answers.

**creativepart** · 03-01-2023, 08:16 AM

Hi and welcome.

Your dealer may be correct or he may be… er, lying. There are good dealers that are very helpful, but unfortunately they are also very few and far between.

Winnebago doesn’t always put the same equipment in every RV so it is best to look for yourself to find the exact converter model you have installed in your specific TT. Generally, this is very easy. You have a Power Center on your TT that contains all of your 110v circuit breakers and your 12v fuses in one place. There is usual a plastic door over those items that you push to release. Your converter is built into this power center.

You should be able to open that plastic door and find the exact model number of your converter right there. Then just visit the website of the converter manufacturer and look up that model number for details about Lithium charging. Some models have the specific lithium charging profile built in, some require that you add an inexpensive device called a remote to access Lithium charging profiles and, yes other models require replacement with a lithium capable device.

We’ve seen others here recently with new 2023 models that had newer converters that were easily updated to lithium charging capable. So, check your converter model number.

Something else to consider that your dealer may never mention is battery location. Many TT owners move their Lithium battery to the first compartment of the TT to protect their battery from weather and cold temps. There are plenty of folks here that have done this and their posts may provide you some guidance on this topic.

A constant refrain you’ll see here is to not expect much, if any, real help from your dealer. New RV owners have the mistaken belief that the dealer is both knowledgeable and the best place to turn for help with their new Winnebago. Most of us have very quickly learned that this is not the case and we find the most help doing research on our own and handling as much as possible on our own or directly with the manufacturer of the specific item that is causing a concern.

Obviously, we don’t know who your dealer is, so I can’t be definitive about this. But, in any case until you know for sure proceed carefully with getting your dealer involved until you can get a feel for their competence.

**creativepart** · 03-01-2023, 08:31 AM

Here’s an older thread that may help you get started with your new TT:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...as-363055.html

Crispie0206 · 03-01-2023, 08:47 AM

I have a call in to the dealer and waiting for a return call right now. I called Winnebago and they told me it was a Wfco 55 amp auto detect but they did not have a model number. It appears on the Wfco website all of the auto detect models are the lithium capable. Hopefully the dealer will be honest with me and tell the truth. I don't know if they tried to put the new one in yet

Crispie0206 · 03-01-2023, 08:48 AM

Thanks for the response!

**creativepart** · 03-01-2023, 10:22 AM

Be careful. it's not unheard of for a dealer to do nothing since your OEM is LFP capable and then tell you that they changed it out so they can charge you for a new converter.

I know I sound like I'm really down on dealers - but both my experience with my own RVs and then reading hundreds of posts here about "lying dealers" has left me with a very low opinion of RV Dealers.

BobC · 03-01-2023, 10:39 AM

Here's a link from WFCO confirming that you're in good shape with auto-detect. As creativepart suggests, just open the plastic door on your power center and you should be able to confirm the model number. Once you have that, go to the WFCO site to confirm the details.

https://wfcoelectronics.com/?s=auto-detect

Your dealer is pretty incompetent if they didn't do that. Plus it's unacceptable for them to quote $500 for a job that they know nothing about.

You should find a good, independent RV shop. If you post your location, someone may be able to help you find one. The best way to do this is to update your profile via the User CP. When you do so, you can also create a signature block similar to mine and creativepart's. That way we'll always know what you have even if you forget to tell us. Here's the independent shop I use so you'll know what you're looking for:

Mobile RV Service and Parts - Galt California

RV dealers are in the business to sell, not service. The only thing I'd use a dealer for is warranty work and even then it can take months to get it done. In such a case, Winnebago may authorize the work to be done elsewhere.

**creativepart** · 03-01-2023, 11:36 AM

I can see the OP (original poster) is in Blissfield, MI. Nearest "towns" are Ann Arbor and Toledo, OH. Jackson, Mi and Lansing, MI are not terribly far away.

All Seasons Mobile Rv Repair, in Adrian (517) 403-2849 might be a good non-dealer choice in the area. I'm just not seeing a lot of reviews on them.

BobC · 03-01-2023, 11:42 AM

Marine359 has done an excellent job installing LiFePO4 in his Micro Minnie's storage compartment, along with solar. Here's a link to his photo album:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...albums376.html

And here's a recent thread on adding LiFePO4 to a 2022 2018FBS that should be helpful. There's a discussion of WFCO auto-detect and model numbers on pg 2. Note that Marine359 makes several comments.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...um-365205.html

The reason that a protected location is preferable is that LiFePO4 batteries can be damaged if they're charged in freezing temperatures. Some LiFePO4 batteries have low temperature cutoff sensors to prevent low temperature charging. I looked at the specs for your battery and it looks like it has a high temperature sensor but not a low temperature sensor, all the more reason for moving it to a protected location. I took a look at your floor plan and, if I have the right one, your bed is in the front. Unlike traditional batteries, LiFePO4 batteries can be mounted inside and in any position, on their sides, upside down, etc. Many owners install them under the bed which looks like an ideal location for you. Since it's so close to the tongue, you may be able to reroute your existing cabling without any problems.

And, just a technical point: "Lithium" is a broad category when it comes to batteries. Some are great for RVs, some are dangerous like the ones that you read about bursting into flames on Hoverboards and the like. Your battery, and most of the "Lithium" batteries currently used in RVs is a "Lithium Iron Phosphate" battery, LiFePO4 for short. I might be a little pedantic but I think it's a good idea to use the proper technology so everyone knows for sure what's going on.

**creativepart** · 03-01-2023, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobC

Your battery, and most of the "Lithium" batteries currently used in RVs is a "Lithium Iron Phosphate" battery, LiFePO4 for short. I might be a little pedantic but I think it's a good idea to use the proper technology so everyone knows for sure what's going on.

Absolutely, every time I wrote "Lithium" i wanted to write LFP for Lithium Iron Phosphate. I just didn't want to confuse the poster.

Batteries:

FLA = Flooded Lead Acid
AGM = Absorbed Glass Mat
LFP = Lithium Iron Phosphate

Crispie0206 · 03-01-2023, 12:31 PM

Thanks everybody for the responses. Talked to the dealer a few minutes ago. He said they made a mistake and confused vin numbers when he looked up mine about putting in the convertor. He said I don't need the convertor. Who knows whether he is being truthful or not. It's Royal RV in Middlebury In. They have been pretty good to deal with other than this issue which may have been a mistake or maybe not.

**creativepart** · 03-01-2023, 12:48 PM

You are so close to the entire RV industry and all of their suppliers in Blissfield (120 miles) that you should have no worries finding resources for everything. Middlebury, IN and around there is where all Winnebago Towables are made. Plus, all the suppliers are between there and Elkhart, IN. (Goshen, Shipshewana, etc).

Maybe that dealer, being so close to the factory is going to be a good one. I checked their reviews and they seem OK for sales at least.

Marine359 · 03-01-2023, 05:56 PM

@Crispie0206,
My best advice to you is to keep a death grip on your wallet until you get to know your trailer, and the most likely ways you will camp. Take a trip close to home, or in your driveway to determine how much energy you use, and how your appliances perform. Really important to take an energy audit, measuring how many watt hours you will typically use in a single day. So, your most important purchase at this time would be a Bluetooth negative shunt monitor. They don’t cost much, and it’s the very first thing you should install in your rv. Takes only a few minutes. When you know how much power you use per day, you can make a much more intelligent decision on upgrades, and you’ll know intuitively whether you need solar, LFP batteries, or other options. Take your time. Get to know your rig.

BobC · 03-01-2023, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine359

@Crispie0206,
My best advice to you is to keep a death grip on your wallet until you get to know your trailer, and the most likely ways you will camp. Take a trip close to home, or in your driveway to determine how much energy you use, and how your appliances perform. Really important to take an energy audit, measuring how many watt hours you will typically use in a single day. So, your most important purchase at this time would be a Bluetooth negative shunt monitor. They don’t cost much, and it’s the very first thing you should install in your rv. Takes only a few minutes. When you know how much power you use per day, you can make a much more intelligent decision on upgrades, and you’ll know intuitively whether you need solar, LFP batteries, or other options. Take your time. Get to know your rig.

I agree with most of Marine359's advice but you already has the LiFePO4 battery so you might as well install it now with, as advised, a shunt monitor.

The Victron SmartShunt is a high quality monitor with high ratings. It's $130.90 on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Victron-Smart...s%2C147&sr=8-2

Cheaper ones from other manufacturers are available but I wouldn't know what to recommend. Maybe Marine359 or someone else has a recommendation.

Marine359 · 03-02-2023, 05:15 AM

I’m happy with the Victron SmartShunt. It does however, have very limited range; about 7-10 feet. If you spend more money you can get the Victron BMV712 which has a remote panel and much longer range, but then you’ve got a more complex installation.

Crispie0206 · 03-02-2023, 06:13 AM

So this leads me to another question I'm not sure on. My trailer comes with the go power 30 amp solar charge controller which says it has Bluetooth and can show your battery stats. Do I need a separate battery monitor like the ones mentioned above? Or can I see the stats I need from the go power charge controller?

Marine359 · 03-02-2023, 08:14 AM

I don’t know what the go power displays, but the Victron smartshunt is a shunt, so it intercepts all amperage entering or leaving the battery through the 12v circuit. It displays not just voltage, but also State of Charge (SOC), current (amps), power (watts), and Amphrs consumed. Additionally it has a memory and can display history and trends. I find all of that valuable. My Victron smart solar charge controllers also display battery voltage and power being fed to the battery from the controller, but not from other sources. The reason is that the charge controller is not a negative shunt. Likely your Go Power is the same as the Victron in that respect. Bottom line is that I wouldn’t rely on my charge controllers to manage my battery.

Crispie0206 · 03-02-2023, 09:16 AM

Ok, thank you for the info!

**creativepart** · 03-02-2023, 09:36 AM

The problem with most battery monitors that use voltage as their state of charge (SOC) measure is that they are difficult to understand. Now, with Lead Acid batteries this was much more problematic than it is with LFP batteries.

With Lead Acid (conventional or AGM) batteries the voltage has a very small range between fully charged and depleted - (12.7 to 11.3v). These batteries needed to be fully at rest (no charging, no usage) for a long period of time to allow accurate reading and that's not normal for operation.

LFP batteries like your new battery are pretty constantly at a higher voltage and usage doesn't sag the voltage down as much. And, the "at rest" condition doesn't apply so much either. But nonetheless, using voltage to read the SOC of a LFP battery isn't nearly as easy as seeing the SOC represented in a percentage - like 93% State of Charge.

A shunt is a small device usually connected on the Load side to all 12v negative loads and on the Power side directly connected to your battery's neg terminal. It "counts" all 12v power in and out of your battery and estimates the SOC in percentages.

I have the Victron SmartShunt, but my LFP batteries also have bluetooth battery meters built into them. Your battery doesn't have that option so, like the others said, I'd also recommend the Victron Battery Monitor. You may not have to have it on day one, but it is a help if you plan to do any dry/off grid camping.

And, when you first get a TT you'll hear that there are millions of optional things you can add - but it's always best to use the RV first for a number of trips and see what you think needs to be added to suit your style of camping.

Crispie0206 · 03-02-2023, 10:40 AM

Thanks for all of the replies. We are just new to the lifepo4 and solar setup. We owned a Rockwood mini lite 2509s for 3 years prior to this one so we are aware of the other issues that come with owning a trailer.